Hugo Chavez and "Bolivarism"

Two hot topics for the price of one

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
The Persnickety Platypus
Guru
Posts: 1233
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 11:03 pm

Hugo Chavez and "Bolivarism"

Post #1

Post by The Persnickety Platypus »

Split from the Pat Robertson thread...



He is a public figure making good money with his insane rantings.


And feeding and clothing the poor.
Which is would explain his opposition to Chavez, a man who (*gasp*) uses his country's massive oil profits to support the needy!

Doubling the Venezualan weekly minimum wage?!?! We Christians cannot stand for this abomination!

Put good old Hugo in charge of Pat's profits. Poverty would be abolished overnight.




But seriously, we all know the real reason Robertson despises Chavez. Don't pretend you don't. All that precious oil money could be going to US corporations, who would be further equipted to continue their highly successful plight of screwing over the American people. Don't let his preaching of "moral values" fool you, all any true Right-Winger wants is to further fatten our friendly American corporate overlord's wallets.
So, why don't the Bush Administration and the right-wing extremists and religious fanatics in the U.S. like Hugo Chavez? Venezuela, after all, supplies the U.S. with 12 per cent of its imported oil and sits on top of the eighth largest known oil field in the world.

Oil is the problem — not that Venezuela has it, but what Hugo Chavez does with it. Rather than gratuitously fatten the profit margins of the international oil companies, the Venezuelan government under Chavez extracts higher taxes and fees from those companies, and plows that money back into the people of Venezuela. He facilitates the formation of grassroots organizations and worker cooperatives amongst Venezuela's poor.


He has increased the minimum wage from about $25 per week to about $40 per week, and raised personal income taxes up to a rate of 10-15 per cent. He has established food programs to feed the poor and traded oil to Cuba for doctors and teachers who provide free health care to the poor and enhanced educational opportunities. He has used oil wealth to increase public works in order to provide more jobs for Venezuelans.

Imagine, using national resources to improve the national society and raise living standards for the poorest citizens. Imagine increasing access to education, health care and affordable food. It flies in the face of modern, corporate capitalism and the demand for ever lower costs for resources and labour.

And, as far as the U.S. and its corporate sponsors are concerned, it sets a bad example for the rest of Latin America. Imagine if Chavez's programs of redirecting wealth to the people of the countries where it is produced rather than letting it be sucked out by foreign investors should catch on. That is the other part of the problem.

Chavez has named his political and social philosophy Bolivarianism and is pursuing a Bolivarian Revolution, not just for Venezuela but for most of South America. The name comes from that of Simon Bolivar who liberated what are now Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador, Columbia and Venezuela from Spain in the early 19th Century. In this century Chavez is providing support to populist movements in neighbouring countries, a move clearly designed to spread his Bolivarian philosophy throughout the South American continent.

He is making oil deals with Brazil and Argentina and advocating Latin American military and trade alliances to challenge the power of the U.S. in the region. Venezuela, too, is the major partner in a Latin American satellite television network, Telesur, along with Argentina, Cuba and Uruguay, which will provide a counter point to the messages broadcast to South America by U.S. networks like CNN.

Chavez is plainly becoming a regional leader in an area long dominated by U.S. influence and interference. Like Simon Bolivar before him, who challenged the rule of the Spanish, Chavez has become a challenge in the region to the power of the United States.
As you can see, a truly evil man.
Last edited by The Persnickety Platypus on Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

1John2_26
Guru
Posts: 1760
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:38 pm
Location: US

Post #61

Post by 1John2_26 »

How will becoming a socialist better my life?

If it does I'll sign up after my new house closes and I cash out my stocks and close all my babk accounts.

And as long as socialism lowers my taxes to around two-percent I'll stay in the club. And of course not outlawing belief in Biblical morality and my rights to be a Christian in public would be nice too. The history of socialists countries don't seem to nice.
1John2_26 wrote:
I looked at the world and its rapid descent into evil and said "Those Christians are right." BY FACTS. I am now a believer in Christ Jesus.

That's not a very Christian view, by facts or otherwise. The world isn't rapidly descending into evil, the evil has been there ever since the fall.
And which fall would that be?
And you're not going to make it any better by blaming liberals or teachers.


You apply guilt where there is the evidence to do so.
Open your eyes - we're the one's trying to fix the problems, applying the elbow grease.
Permissiveness is not a difficult task at all. Selling out is only painful to the soul. I believe Marxists do not have one?
We're trying to help make people responsible, and we'd appreciate all the help we can get. Help, not more conservative bitching.


Condom-morality needs to be bitched at.
1John2_26 wrote:
ALL of my Democrat friends wonder what happened to "their" party. It is now the party of abortion and gay rights. Again you've got the wrong facts.

Ever heard of the Consistent Life Ethic?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistent_Life_Ethic

This is the liberalism I grew up in. The liberal Democrats I encounter who believe the converse are few and far between. It seems that you are here attacking a straw man.


I'm a Californian. You cannot whitewash nor redefine liberals to me. I can see with both eyes. They are literally sodomites.
1John2_26 wrote:
Christians have always been the enemies of socialists.
...

Besides socialism and communism are always connected.

Read Niebuhr, or any reliable history text. The first anti-Nazis and anti-Communists in this country were, in fact, Socialists - Niebuhr, FDR, Truman - all belonged to the same tradition of moderate socialism which we used to call the 'Vital Centre'. And guess what? They were all Christian, every one of them. Starting with Schleiermacher all the way up to Martin Luther King, Jr. and his political heirs.
And guess what? They are godless communists now. Like the union memebers I marched with in California.
It's too bad that politics these days are so polarised that the Vital Centre can't be revitalised without a lot of work.
No, what is too bad is that we have the most immoral people in charge of morality. Literally and legally. You can even take your shots at the conservatives.
1John2_26 wrote:
Walk the real streets of America or the world and see that the crackhead is a real person.

I don't know what the hell kind of 'real' streets of America you're walking, but where I'm from (about as urban as you can get), the crackhead is far less likely to be found on the 'real' streets than the poor blighter who's down on his luck. Life isn't as melodramatic or as black-and-white as FOX News - if you had one, you might realise this.


Condom-morality is black and white. I work those real streets. I deal with those people. Mt salary is not huge but my experience and perspective of what is killing our future is. It is liberal permissiveness that has wiped away the right and wrong concept.
1John2_26 wrote:
Morality is an American trait.

Is this the same trait that's producing the vulgarities of consumer culture or the excesses of big business?
Starting with MTV and Vanity Fair I could list many, many sources that plague our youth and all of them line-up with democrat voting blocks.
Is this the same trait that's widening the gap between rich and poor even as we type on this forum? Is this the same trait that's pumping the vast majority of the world's carbon dioxide into the air?


I am free to buy and sell property and I am free to live my life without politicians taking the majority of my pay to fund unmotivated people's lifestyles.
Sorry, real morality is a human trait - anyone who's studied any kind of history or any kind of ethics knows this basic fact.
Human nature is not sweet. Morality is learned from role models.
And generally speaking, it's not one Americans in general tend to be good at realising.


The world calls to us everytime the sh-- hits the fan.
1John2_26 wrote:
And look to the US for the existence of Taiwan as a reality. Otherwise your Chinese socialist comrades would have obliterated the "rights" of the Taiwanese long ago.

The Taiwanese didn't have any legal rights until the Jiang family and their GMD dictatorship were out of power.
And became a free market and capitalist.
They improved their own lot through voting in the MJD; the U.S. had nothing to do with it.


Anti-communism freedom did though.
And, believe it or not (this is from someone who's actually been to mainland China within the past year), China is getting better as far as rights go, this entire furor over Google and weblogs aside.


As capitalism spreads.
People in Wangfujing are in the streets discussing things they wouldn't have dared discuss as little as ten years ago, wearing T-shirts with slogans they wouldn't have dared show ten years ago, selling books that wouldn't have been available as little as ten years ago.
And even Christians can walk the streets of China like they can in liberal America now. As long as they don't speak they will not suffer.
I'm just presenting the facts.
Some.

User avatar
MagusYanam
Guru
Posts: 1562
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:57 pm
Location: Providence, RI (East Side)

Post #62

Post by MagusYanam »

1John2_26 wrote:Permissiveness is not a difficult task at all. Selling out is only painful to the soul. I believe Marxists do not have one?
News Flash: Marxists have souls, just like every other human being. Another news flash: We're not the one's selling out. I've stood by my belief in the Social Gospel and the Kingdom of Christ since my baptism, I've never said anything because I was paid to do it or rewarded for it. Especially since the majority of Americans disagree with me.
1John2_26 wrote:Condom-morality needs to be bitched at.
Woe to you, hypocrite. Goes to show that conservatives will talk a good game, but they never actually deliver. Unless it's money to their own pockets.

Teachers are actually trying to fix the problem. When I was in school, I was taught 'abstinence, monogamy, birth control' - in that order. This is a pragmatic morality - abstinence is the ideal for teens, monogamy for post-teens. Birth control is the last resort. And where it's taught, it generally works. But where the problem is worst, that's where the schools are the least-funded. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?
1John2_26 wrote:I'm a Californian.
And this is relevant... how? We've had some wacko Californians on this website, let me tell you.
1John2_26 wrote:You cannot whitewash nor redefine liberals to me.
Guess what? I am a liberal, and the Consistent Life Ethic is what I practise. I need to whitewash nothing, and I need to redefine nothing.

Here I stand, I can do no other; God help me, amen.

- Martin Luther
1John2_26 wrote:They are literally sodomites.
Liberals all lived in ancient times in a Middle Eastern city? That's news to me, 'cause I sure don't.
1John2_26 wrote:It is liberal permissiveness that has wiped away the right and wrong concept.
Then how come it's the liberals who are saying that Bush is wrong?

Another conservative brass ox smashed.
1John2_26 wrote:Human nature is not sweet. Morality is learned from role models.
Role models of what species?
1John2_26 wrote:The world calls to us everytime the sh-- hits the fan.
And those days are almost gone by now as America enters the stage of imperial overstretch. When the sh-- hits the fan next time, it's going to be the EU that's the first asked to cope.

But seriously, you're not going to solve the world's problems by blaming liberal Christians (or liberals of other religions, for that matter). I can sympathise with your concerns about the state of public morality, but honestly, I think that capitalism is more of a problem than any political philosophy.

Why is there so much sex, scandal and violence in the media? Sex, scandal and violence bring the ratings and sell the magazines. High ratings and high sales mean more money. Simple - it's the capitalist mentality at work. It's one of the reasons I'm not a capitalist, and it's one of the reasons I can't understand why you are.

User avatar
micatala
Site Supporter
Posts: 8338
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 2:04 pm

Post #63

Post by micatala »

1John wrote:You cannot whitewash nor redefine liberals to me. I can see with both eyes. They are literally sodomites.

You must have your eyes covered, then.

There is nothing more to be said about this than it is a lie.

I would not call myself a liberal, although I am quite liberal on certain issues.

One person I know who does call himself a liberal, and is in fact is quite active in the local democratic party, can be described as follows.

1. Married with grown children. Never any indication of sodomy.
2. Volunteers at his local church profusely. Chairs committees.
3. Volunteers at periodic free meals for the under-privelaged in the area.
4. Donates copious amounts of money (the family has 'old money') to all sorts of charitable causes.
5. Volunteers his professional expertise to both church and community organizations.
6. Advocates for faith perspectives within politics.


You ridiculous and slanderous statement is affront to this person, and millions of others like him. You frankly owe him and others like him an apology.

User avatar
The Persnickety Platypus
Guru
Posts: 1233
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 11:03 pm

Post #64

Post by The Persnickety Platypus »

Wait, I thought you were through with me John/AlAyeti?


Why should you even try? I am hopeless, remember. The evolution of evolution. How dare I seek morality outside the confines of the Christian mental jail.
I looked at the world and its rapid descent into evil and said Those Christians are right. BY FACTS. I am now a believer in Christ Jesus.
I sure wish you would let me in on these facts. I spend thirteen years looking for them. Nothing doing.

By the way, not sure which country you live in, but it is the Christians who are driving mine into the pits. Gay marriage is now the most meaningful issue anyone bothers talking about.

The Religious Right has cast American workers into neo-fuedalism. Don't talk to me about evil. Refer to your elitist buddies.
Chavez was a big supporter of Hussein when he was raping and beheading anyone he wanted to. Your Christian Chavez.
Apparently you are still struggling with the concept of 'present an idea, back it up'. This is the kind of statement that requires supporting evidence.
Sounds very college-student in today's world to me.
Your college teachers are lairs.
I have yet reach college. So professors are another item you can cross off your list of people who may have brainwashed me.
United Soviet Socialist republic. National Socialist party in Germany. Socialism becomes evil as fast as a whore turns to drugs to live with herself.
I find your methods of reaching an accurate assessment quite intriguing.

Take two corrupt communist nations. Use them to vouch for the hundreds of socialist societies throughout history.

Amazing. Please let me in on your secrets of enlightenment.
Why can't countries not American develope what we have?
Because sand and AIDS do not garner a very high demand on the global market.

Don't tell me it's time for another economics lesson?
Morality is an American trait.
Surely that is a typo...

Your morality involves not sleeping around or aborting babies, right?

Do you remember my statistics? How socialist Europe has significantly lower rates of teen sex, unwanted babies, and abortions than America?

NO WAIT LET ME GUESS..... liberal deception?
By forced taxation they have implemented a form of slavery.
And the highest POLQ quality of life ratings on earth?

Millions of Europeans are joking about America as we speak.
Europeans are lemmings we Americans do not want to be.
Your loss.
Marxism is an opiate of the people that have no ambition other than to screw and eat.
Venezuelans have noted that their economic opportunities have mushroomed upon the establishment of Marxism. Every person is now being given the opportunity at an education. The welfare system offers free health care and widespread money distribution, which means less money spend feeding your starving children, more money invested in greater opportunities. Have I mentioned the 9% economic growth?

But I have no doubt that you will continue to ignore these basic facts.
Many people want more to life than to be told what they will get. It is called freedom. Socialism becomes communism and countries become horror. It's history whether your college professors tell you it is not.
You seem to figure that if you keep repeating this fallacy, someone will eventually agree with you.

Come off it, you are not convincing anyone.

But should you decide to present some actual evidence, I would be more than willing to listen.
Feeding the poor is the job of middle class Christians.
Too bad the middle class is extinct. As is true Christianity.
Once those people are fed and healthy they want to come to America "to get rich!" Wake up.
You wake up. That argument died four pages ago.

Go read up on elementary economic principles some, then get back to me.
Walk the real streets of America or the world and see that the crackhead is a real person. Sold-out by socialism's slavery inducing ethics.
As goes the successful CEO's excuse for his seven vacation estates and fleet of 50 foot yachts.

So, which corporate giant do you work for?

Such an ignorant comment must have an agenda behind it...
Um, how about the society of Jesus' disciples (Acts 2:42-47)?


That is communism, based on worshipping the Risen Christ you have thrown away.
But wait, I thought communism was evil?

Your very religion advocates it. Undeniably.

If you disagree, perhaps you should start looking into other worldviews. Sorry, Jesus has got my back on this one.
Not if you compare the history of socialism. It is godless and violent.
Really?

SHOW ME.
Chavez is more than likely doing that very thing to anyone that opposes him.
More than likely? You mean, you're not even sure?

You don't know a thing about Hugo. Your slur of false comments accurately depicts this.
Remember godless marxists have redefined and revised moral values.
You mean, the ones about giving to the poor? Or the sex issues (of which "moral Christian" America leads the world in)?
You may want to actually read Marx and Engels for yourself.
Have done. Your turn.
ALL of my Democrat friends wonder what happened to "their" party. It is now the party of abortion and gay rights.
Actually, those are exclusively Republican issues.

Anyone without their head stuck in the clouds knows that there are more important things to concern themselves with.
I entered socialist party in google and the WWU popped up.
You could always try clicking the link I provided. Wild concept, I know.

Once again, http://www.sp-usa.org/

Click the Principles and Platform tabs. See for yourself how evil we are.

User avatar
The Persnickety Platypus
Guru
Posts: 1233
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 11:03 pm

Post #65

Post by The Persnickety Platypus »

And as long as socialism lowers my taxes to around two-percent I'll stay in the club.
Sorry, successful societies don't come free. I would refer you (once again) to the statistics, but I wouldn't want to waste my valuable typing time.
Starting with MTV and Vanity Fair I could list many
Funny you decide to list Capitalist giants.
And generally speaking, it's not one Americans in general tend to be good at realising.



The world calls to us everytime the sh-- hits the fan.
And unless there is oil in the mix, they are left with unanswered calls. Africa has been calling for centuries. Unfortunately, the incessant yelling about evil homosexuals stemming from certain conservative pulpits drowns out the cries of the suffering.

Sorry guy's, we have real problems to tackle.
The Taiwanese didn't have any legal rights until the Jiang family and their GMD dictatorship were out of power.
And became a free market and capitalist.
After undergoing heavy socialist re-distribution.

User avatar
The Persnickety Platypus
Guru
Posts: 1233
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 11:03 pm

Post #66

Post by The Persnickety Platypus »

Oh wow, Magnus you are going to love this.


John, you may no longer argue the "permissiveness of sex" in socialist nations. As of now, it has definitively been proven FALSE.

A little taster:
Image

It appears "Moral America" in fact boasts sex rates tripple to QUADRUPLE that in Socialist countries (as depicted by the three sample nations chosen for the survey).

Notice what they say makes the difference in these rates:

"Rights. Respect. Responsibility.® The study tour participants—policy makers, researchers, youth-serving professionals, foundation officers, and youth—have found that this trilogy of values underpins a social philosophy regarding adolescent sexual health in these countries. Each of these nations has an unwritten social contract with young people: "We'll respect your right to act responsibly, giving you the tools you need to avoid unintended pregnancy and sexually transmitted infections, including HIV.

In these nations, societal openness and comfort in dealing with sexuality, including teen sexuality, and pragmatic governmental policies create greater, easier access to sexual health information and services for all people, including teens. Easy access to sexual health information and services leads to better sexual health outcomes for French, German, and Dutch teens when compared to U.S. teens."


How does this differ from the conservative method? Our Christian abstinance advocates like to shove the sex topic under the carpet, and chastise it as evil, even to the point of discouraging condom use.

Sick of America's reversion to "hedonism and sodomy"? Take it up with your ilk.


EDIT- The stats just keep comming in.

Here are some more interesting statistics, this time depicting global charity contributions amoung developed countries:
http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelate ... sandGraphs

Interesting how evil Socialist Norway, Denmark, Luxembourg, Sweden, and the Netherlands are, pound for pound, the mose generous nations on Earth, while free, noble, moral America is rated second to last.


Should you decide to respond to any of this, I expect you to provide accompanying statistics depicting your argument's accuracy. If not, I may be forced to leave just as in the other thread (for sheer lack of anything to debate).

1John2_26
Guru
Posts: 1760
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:38 pm
Location: US

Post #67

Post by 1John2_26 »

Liberalism-socialism-horror. History. Nothing has changed in the last five years in the EU.

The opiate squeezed from Marxism is pitiless behavior. Brokeback Mountain will do well in Europe. Which is of course a story of adultery and brkoen familes.
BBC News Online: World: Europe

Thursday, 8 March, 2001, 23:52 GMT
EU 'to protect' sex slaves


The European Commission - the executive arm of the European Union - is to propose measures to give special protection to women prostitutes if they co-operate with the authorities to fight cross-border trafficking of women.
Launching a campaign against human trafficking to coincide with International Women's Day, Justice Commissioner Antonio Vitorino said the women would be given temporary residency rights.

The nightmare is upon us... it is a stain on our culture

EU Commissioner Anna Diamantopoulou

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We can only be effective in fighting against criminal networks that traffic in women if we can count on the co-operation of the victims in the investigations," Mr Vitorino told a meeting of the European Parliament.
He said the proposals would be put forward in the next few weeks, without specifying a date.

Women's organisations have been demanding guaranteed asylum rights for any victims of the sex-smuggling trade who agree to give evidence against the traffickers.

They say the European Commission proposal does not go far enough.

Estimates suggest that as many as 120,000 women every year are smuggled into western Europe and forced to enter a life of prostitution.

'Product for sale'

"The nightmare is upon us... it is a stain on our culture," EU Social Affairs Commissioner Anna Diamantopoulou told the session of parliament.

We see it in the plate glass windows of Antwerp and Hamburg; it inundates the centres and pavements of Amsterdam, Paris, Athens, and Rome; it is the product for sale in the markets of London and Madrid," she said.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3071965/
In the heart of Europe
Farther along the trafficking pipeline, hundreds of women and girls are smuggled into Europe every day and forced onto the streets of cities like Hamburg, Paris, London and Amsterdam.

Amsterdam, a city synonymous with hedonism, is perhaps best known for its legalized sex industry, in which prostitutes pay taxes and undergo regular health exams. The city’s Red Light District is a virtual Disneyland of sex — with only European Union passport holders allowed to ply the trade.

But only a few miles’ drive from the city center, traditional Dutch tolerance is helping fuel the trafficking problem. In Theemsweg, a fenced-in, football field-sized parking lot built by the government for unregulated sex workers, girls sit in bus shelters — also courtesy of the government — waiting for clients. There are no EU citizens here — and the prostitutes’ countries of origin are strikingly familiar: Ukraine, Moldova, Belarus, Romania, Bulgaria, Czech Republic. On weekends, men looking for cheap sex wait in cars that back up for a mile. Sexual encounters, which take place right in the cars, cost $20.
Isn't it nice that in Amsterdam the prostitutes are treated so well?

1John2_26
Guru
Posts: 1760
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:38 pm
Location: US

Post #68

Post by 1John2_26 »

I see I am not the only one that holds an opinion about the connection of Democrats to communism. Godless communism of course.
Are We Living Under the Communist Manifesto?

"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known, and he carries his banners openly. But the traitor moves among those within the gates freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very hall of government itself. For the traitor appears no traitor. He speaks in the accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their garments, and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in hearts of men. He rots the soul of a nation. He works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a city. He infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A Murderer Is Less To Be Feared." Cicero, 42 B.C.

The only difference between communism and socialism is its method of imposition. Communism is forced upon the people against their will. Socialism on the other hand is entered into voluntarily by the majority of voters.

Even though the goals are the same, socialism is much more dangerous because it gradually enslaves the people without the use of visible force, while artfully disguising its evil motives with a variety of so-called noble causes.[/b]

The evils of socialism and humanism cannot survive exposure unless "good men and women do nothing". The following is offered in hopes that you will join our efforts to expose those evils. Your comments are WELCOME!

The 10 planks of the communist manifesto written in 1848 by Karl Marx appear below in red.

The Communist Manifesto

Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes. Property tax paid annually prevents the outright ownership of property, because if property can be confiscated for taxes owed, it can never truly be owned. The application of our rents of land (property taxes)are used for public purposes as envisioned by Karl Marx.

A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. The income tax was imposed upon the people briefly after the War Between The Southern States and The dictatorial Federal Government. In 1895, The US Supreme Court abolished it with the words, "The income tax is indeed a direct tax and therefore unconstitutional". The Court understood that, "No capitation, or other direct Tax shall be laid,..." Art. 1, Sec. 9, of the US Constitution, means exactly what it says. However, in 1913 there were enough socialist in Congress to again foist the income tax upon the people with the 16th Amendment to the Constitution. The income tax is not designed just to raise taxes, which could be accomplished very easily with a national sales tax. Instead, its goal is to punish achievement, invade privacy, and control the people through fear and intimidation from the most gestapo-like arm of our government, the I.R.S.

Abolition of all right of inheritance. Our inheritance tax puts all rights of inheritance in jeopardy. Property tax, income tax, and inheritance tax, should be abolished because they are all direct taxes and they all violate our God-given property rights. They could be replaced with indirect taxes like sales tax, tobacco tax, alcohol tax, or gasoline tax. Some advantages of indirect taxes are:

They are indeed Constitutional.
Our privacy would be protected.
Everyone who spends money participates including the super-wealthy, foreign visitors, illegal aliens, drug dealers, and others now in the underground economy.

It is a pay as you go system - no April 15th.
The IRS and all associated collection cost would be eliminated.
Lower production cost will allow business to compete internationally.
Prices would come down more than enough to cover the sales tax increase.
Business would expand creating new jobs.
The money now in off-shore tax-havens would flood back into this country stimulating the economy.
Manufacturing would come back home absent the over-taxation and over-regulation that drove them to foreign countries.

Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. Our government does not normally confiscate property of emigrants, however, many laws and regulations have been passed in recent years which allow many government agencies such as the I.R.S., O.S.H.A., E.P.A., B.L.M., and drug enforcement agencies to confiscate property from citizens that are considered rebels. Much of this confiscation is achieved without due process of law.

Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly. The Federal Reserve System was created in 1913. It is not federally owned and nothing is in reserve. It is a private corporation with the power to increase or decrease the money supply by changing the interest rates and the reserve requirements of its member banks. It can create money out of thin air, lend it to the government and then collect the principal and interest from the taxpayers. That is why its owners always have and always will promote war and socialism to create inextinguishable government debt.

"Permit me to control the currency of a nation and I care not who makes its laws" Baron De Rothschild, brainchild of the Federal Reserve Bank.

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." Thomas Jefferson

Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State. Communication and transportation are controlled by a number of government agencies, e.g., The Federal Communication Commission (FCC), The Dept. of Transportation (DOT), The Interstate Commerce Commission (ICC), The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA).

Public Television is also a good example of state control of communication for the indoctrination of the concepts of socialism and humanism.

Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvements of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. Dan Smoot's book, "The Business End of Government" revealed that, the federal government owned 1165 different businesses like AMTRAC. The Bureau of land Management, The Department of Agriculture, The Department of Commerce, The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), etc., all promote a common plan of more and more regulation and control from government with less and less freedom enjoyed by the people.

Equal liability of all to labor and the establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. Heavy taxation, over-regulation, and other economic problems caused by our government's adoption of socialism has forced women to labor equally with men. Our industrial army is the Social Security System which requires membership at birth.

Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country by a more equitable distribution of population over the country. We are not living under this plank totally. However, we do have many large agriculture corporations who have combined all levels of production from the farm to the consumer. It appears that the goal of this plank is to reduce the number of family farms making it easier to gain control of all food and fiber production. This goal is fast becoming reality.

Free education for all children in public schools.... Communist and socialist have long recognized the value of indoctrination through a free educational system.

And, it has produced a people with no understanding of the vast differences between the Free Enterprise System and socialism. During our Bicentennial celebrations (1986), a national poll of school children revealed that 46% of them believed that "From him with the most ability - to him with the most need" was part of our Constitution. Today all socialist, all liberals and most democracts believe the same thing.

Would it surprise you to learn that "The Democractic Socialist of America" are alive and well in the U.S.A.. Its "Progressive Caucus" list 58 members from the U.S. House of Representatives.

All are democrats except their chairman, Benard Sanders, who ran on the socialist party ticket. You can find the list at: Democratic Socialist of America

1John2_26
Guru
Posts: 1760
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:38 pm
Location: US

Post #69

Post by 1John2_26 »

Oh, and why dwell on sexual perversion and liberals/progressives/secularists be connected? They are one and the same beast. Just one like a chameleon. It's evil to say the least. And Europe's covert sexual appetite is well documented. Even by MSNBC.

I see it as just about impossible to believe in the Biblical Christ and be a socialist. Of course "progressives" tackle that now don't they?

Though you have to wonder what" or "who" is doing the talking, let's see from the Democratic Socialists of America themselves:

http://www.dsausa.org/dsa.html

Q: What can young people do to move the US
towards socialism?

Since the Civil Rights movement of the 1950s, young people have played a critical role in American politics.

They have been a tremendous force for both political and cultural change in this country: in limiting the US’s options
in the war in Vietnam, in forcing corporations to divest from the racist South African regime, in reforming Universities,
and in bringing issues of sexual orientation
and gender discrimination to public attention.

Though none of these struggles were fought by young people alone, they all featured youth as leaders in multi-generational progressive
coalitions.

Young people are needed in today’s struggles as well: for universal health care and stronger unions, against
welfare cuts and irresponsible multinational corporations.

Schools, Colleges and Universities are important to American political culture. They are the places where ideas are
formulated and policy discussed and developed. Being an active part of that discussion is a critical job for young socialists.

We have to work hard to change people’s misconceptions about socialism, to broaden political debate, and
to fight the cynicism and apathy all political groups face on campuses today.

Off-campus, too, in our daily cultural
lives,young people can be turning the tide against racism, sexism and homophobia, as well as the conservative myth
of the virtue of greed.

1John2_26
Guru
Posts: 1760
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:38 pm
Location: US

Post #70

Post by 1John2_26 »

You can see this website here: http://www.cfa.homestead.com/demark-e.html

Good ol' socialist Denmark morality.

Chinese Family Alliance

for healthy traditional family values
華人家庭聯盟會

保衛健康傳统家庭

Corrupt law comes from corrupt politicians. The following news clip shows in a public square of Denmark, teenagers are looking at a sex education CD produced by the Danish education department. The images depict human-animal sex and humans ingesting feces. There had been more than 100,000 downloads of this CD. In 1990, Denmark legalized same-sex marriage. The moral standard of the country went down a slippery slope. Can you imagine the regret of the parents of these teenagers? Had they done something to stop the tide, their children might not have been looking at this trash today. Do we want our country to go through the same route?

Post Reply