Where did Jesus's spirit go when he died?

[macdanny6]

Where did Jesus's spirit go when he died?

[PRESBYTERIAN]

"Christs spirit did go to heaven after his death because
he said to the theif on the cross"THIS DAY thou shalt be with me in paradise"

According to John 20:17 Christ had not as of yet ascended unto the Father.
"Do not hold on to me... because I have not yet gone back to the Father. But go to my brothers and tell them that I am returning to him who is my Father and their Father, my God and their God."

I would disagree as Christ here is talking of his bodily ascent and not the spiritual as he did to the thief on the cross.

So then PRESBYTERIAN, am I to understand that you account the verse in Luke 23:46 to be speaking of Jesus' literal "spirit" going back to heaven upon death?

"And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

In other words you hold to the view that a conscious immortal part of man departs from the body at death?

In this account from Luke as well as Mark 15:37, the phrase "gave up the ghost" is being translated from one Greek word 'exepneusen' which means simply to breathe out, or expire.

"Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.� When he had said this, he breathed his last."

"With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last."

By no stretch of the imagination can this be used to prove that Jesus released an invisible ghost (spirit) from his body.

Now the Greek text of the phrase "into thy hands I commend my spirit" is also interesting. Here the Greek word rendered "commend" is paratithemai, and means "to entrust as a deposit for protection".

Now when we compare this with a couple of other verses from the Bible we see the harmony within...

"When their spirit departs, they return to the ground;
on that very day their plans come to nothing." (Psalms 146:4)

"Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,
and the spirit will return to God who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:7)

So we see then that Jesus was not releasing a ghost (spirit) from his body. Knowing he is about to expire, Jesus entrusts the Father with his very life, having faith that God will be faithful and raise him from the dead. Having thus done, he breathed his last and expired.

As to Luke 23:43 where Christ promises the thief "today" he would be with him in paradise... it was in response to the thief's plea to remember him when Christ would come into his Kingdom, and that Kingdom is the Messianic Kingdom that Christ will inaugurate at his second coming. Christ was not saying to the thief that he would be with Christ "that very day" in paradise, but was telling the thief "today" (the day of their crucifixion) he would be with Christ in paradise (future tense)

God became man in Jesus Christ. Upon the death of ANY man his immortal spirit (all seeing and all thinking) goes to heaven or Hell. as paul said "absent from the body and present with the lord". Jesus Chists incarnation and ressurection was to be ordered in such a way that by faith in his name we will Die and our spirits will go to heaven and then when Christ returns he will gather our dust from the graves and we will be clothed with glory with exactly the same spiritual body as Christ.

This day means this day.

Being that only Jesus has ascended into heaven (John 3:13), the thief on the cross is still awaiting his resurrection on the last day (John 6:39) and is not now in heaven, even as the prophet David is not now in heaven.

"Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day... for David is not ascended into the heavens:" (Acts 2:29, 34)

That being the case then, the "today" that Jesus spoke to the thief in Luke 23:43 was not to signify he would be with Jesus "that very day" in paradise, but was given that assurance "that day."

Good day

Ankh

[PRESBYTERIAN]

"Christs spirit did go to heaven after his death because
he said to the theif on the cross"THIS DAY thou shalt be with me in paradise"

According to John 20:17 Christ had not as of yet ascended unto the Father.
"Do not hold on to me... because I have not yet gone back to the Father. But go to my brothers and tell them that I am returning to him who is my Father and their Father, my God and their God."

I would disagree as Christ here is talking of his bodily ascent and not the spiritual as he did to the thief on the cross.

So then PRESBYTERIAN, am I to understand that you account the verse in Luke 23:46 to be speaking of Jesus' literal "spirit" going back to heaven upon death?

"And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

In other words you hold to the view that a conscious immortal part of man departs from the body at death?

In this account from Luke as well as Mark 15:37, the phrase "gave up the ghost" is being translated from one Greek word 'exepneusen' which means simply to breathe out, or expire.

"Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.� When he had said this, he breathed his last."

"With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last."

By no stretch of the imagination can this be used to prove that Jesus released an invisible ghost (spirit) from his body.

Now the Greek text of the phrase "into thy hands I commend my spirit" is also interesting. Here the Greek word rendered "commend" is paratithemai, and means "to entrust as a deposit for protection".

Now when we compare this with a couple of other verses from the Bible we see the harmony within...

"When their spirit departs, they return to the ground;
on that very day their plans come to nothing." (Psalms 146:4)

"Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,
and the spirit will return to God who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:7)

This scripture proves the point. thank you for helping me.

So we see then that Jesus was not releasing a ghost (spirit) from his body. Knowing he is about to expire, Jesus entrusts the Father with his very life, having faith that God will be faithful and raise him from the dead. Having thus done, he breathed his last and expired.

As to Luke 23:43 where Christ promises the thief "today" he would be with him in paradise... it was in response to the thief's plea to remember him when Christ would come into his Kingdom, and that Kingdom is the Messianic Kingdom that Christ will inaugurate at his second coming. Christ was not saying to the thief that he would be with Christ "that very day" in paradise, but was telling the thief "today" (the day of their crucifixion) he would be with Christ in paradise (future tense)

God became man in Jesus Christ. Upon the death of ANY man his immortal spirit (all seeing and all thinking) goes to heaven or Hell. as paul said "absent from the body and present with the lord". Jesus Chists incarnation and ressurection was to be ordered in such a way that by faith in his name we will Die and our spirits will go to heaven and then when Christ returns he will gather our dust from the graves and we will be clothed with glory with exactly the same spiritual body as Christ.

This day means this day.

Being that only Jesus has ascended into heaven (John 3:13), the thief on the cross is still awaiting his resurrection on the last day (John 6:39) and is not now in heaven, even as the prophet David is not now in heaven.

"Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day... for David is not ascended into the heavens:" (Acts 2:29, 34)

That being the case then, the "today" that Jesus spoke to the thief in Luke 23:43 was not to signify he would be with Jesus "that very day" in paradise, but was given that assurance "that day."

Good day

Ankh

[Ankh]

Greetings PRESBYTERIAN,
Thanks for your response... though your resent response pretty much avoided all commentary on my comments in regards to the topic at hand and of Jesus' utterance to the thief on the cross that "today" he would be with Him in paradise.

But what little you did comment on, I will do likewise...

"Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,
and the spirit will return to God who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:7)

"This scripture proves the point. thank you for helping me."

And what point is that? Elaborate further.

"So we see then that Jesus was not releasing a ghost (spirit) from his body. Knowing he is about to expire, Jesus entrusts the Father with his very life, having faith that God will be faithful and raise him from the dead. Having thus done, he breathed his last and expired.

As to Luke 23:43 where Christ promises the thief "today" he would be with him in paradise... it was in response to the thief's plea to remember him when Christ would come into his Kingdom, and that Kingdom is the Messianic Kingdom that Christ will inaugurate at his second coming. Christ was not saying to the thief that he would be with Christ "that very day" in paradise, but was telling the thief "today" (the day of their crucifixion) he would be with Christ in paradise (future tense)."

"God became man in Jesus Christ. Upon the death of ANY man his immortal spirit (all seeing and all thinking) goes to heaven or Hell. as paul said "absent from the body and present with the lord".

His "Immortal spirit?" My friend, ONLY God is "immortal," not man.

"which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see." (1 Timothy 6:15-16)

"Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen." (1 Timothy 1:17)

"...Upon the death of ANY man his immortal spirit (all seeing all thinking)..."

So you are declaring that man has a conscious existence after death of the body?

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." (Eccl 9:5)

If some conscious part of a man survives the death of the body, then how is it that according to the Bible, the dead know nothing?

"...Upon the death of ANY man his immortal spirit (all seeing and all thinking) goes to heaven or Hell. as paul said "absent from the body and present with the lord". Jesus Chists incarnation and ressurection was to be ordered in such a way that by faith in his name we will Die and our spirits will go to heaven and then when Christ returns he will gather our dust from the graves and we will be clothed with glory with exactly the same spiritual body as Christ."

PRESBYTERIAN... you thank me for helping you prove your point by quoting Eccl 12:7...

"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return to God who gave it."

but you are complcating matters to as where you, verses the Bible, believe the "spirit" goes upon death. You say above that "upon the death of ANY man his immortal spirit goes to heaven or hell." The common belief is that only the righteous go to be with God, while the wicked go to hell. With hell being complete banishment from God's presence, could these spirits in any way be said to have 'returned to God'? PRESBYTERIAN, if you begin to explain how a spirit in hell has returned to God, aren't you moving away from the plain sense of the verse into the realm of 'mental gymnastics'? Think about it

Understand that God, as the ultimate giver and sustainer of all living things, is the only one who can give the breath of life, and the spark of life. Life is given as a gift of which we are only stewards. When we die, the breath of life which made us living souls goes back to God who, as the author of life, is its rightful owner. God as such then holds the only hope for that person of a future life and resurrection for the dead. Our hope is not in the belief that we are immortal in any respect, but in our faith in God, that should we lose our life he has the power to keep it and give it back to us in the resurrection.

Good day

Ankh

[LDSman07]

The scriptures tell us that "(1 Pet. 3:18)

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."
The scriptures tell us he went to preach the gospel unto the spirits in Heaven/prison and the LDS faith teaches too that he visited the peoples of the the Americas!