Christian Politics

WinePusher · Post by **WinePusher** » Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:10 am

Here's an interesting post I came across from another forum. The following post is the work of another user, but since I am not a member there I decided to bring the discussion over here.

---This is something that confuses me often. The Christian Right, and indeed many Christians in general, seem to have political positions that dont exactly jive with their beliefs.

The biggest one I can think of at the moment is undocumented immigration. From reading the bible, it doesn't seem that Jesus would have actually cared that much if someone had proper paperwork or not; it was "Love thy neighbor" not "Love thy properly documented neighbor". Except a lot of the people who are really anti-immigration seem to be the Protestant Christians who talk about how important it is to be Christ-like.

I'm not trying to criticize, I'm just confused how many of these political positions came to be adopted when many violate the basic precepts of Christianity.---

Question: Do you agree that the political right wing is often in constrast with Christian social and ethical teaching?

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:42 am

East of Eden wrote:
Ooberman wrote:Most Generous Countries in 2008 as donation per citizen in 2008 (report July 2010)

The GHA July 2010 report also lists countries ranked by generosity as donation per citizen from data collected in 2008.[6]

* 1. Luxembourg - $114.4/citizen
* 2. Norway - $95.7/citizen
* 3. Sweden - $65.9/citizen
* 4. Ireland - $55.9/citizen
* 5. Denmark - $54.1/citizen
* 6 The Netherlands - $38.6/citizen
* 7. Kuwait - $32.8/citizen
* 8. Saudi Arabia - $28.7/citizen
* 9. Finland - $27/citizen
* 10. Switzerland - $25.4/citizen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mo ... _countries

BTW, I stand corrected on Muslims as far as Kuwait and SA.
Both religious and secular Americans have Europeans beat, religious Americans give $2,210 a year to charity, secular Americans give $642.

If those figures are true, I wonder how much of that is 'tithe to the church' , which goes to directly benefiting the people giving in the form of maintaining the church and paying for the pastors, and also providing for religious education?

East of Eden · Post by **East of Eden** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:57 pm

Ooberman wrote:source?

Arthur Brooks, "Who Really Cares?"

Ooberman · Post by **Ooberman** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:05 pm

Goat wrote:
East of Eden wrote:
Ooberman wrote:Most Generous Countries in 2008 as donation per citizen in 2008 (report July 2010)

The GHA July 2010 report also lists countries ranked by generosity as donation per citizen from data collected in 2008.[6]

* 1. Luxembourg - $114.4/citizen
* 2. Norway - $95.7/citizen
* 3. Sweden - $65.9/citizen
* 4. Ireland - $55.9/citizen
* 5. Denmark - $54.1/citizen
* 6 The Netherlands - $38.6/citizen
* 7. Kuwait - $32.8/citizen
* 8. Saudi Arabia - $28.7/citizen
* 9. Finland - $27/citizen
* 10. Switzerland - $25.4/citizen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mo ... _countries

BTW, I stand corrected on Muslims as far as Kuwait and SA.
Both religious and secular Americans have Europeans beat, religious Americans give $2,210 a year to charity, secular Americans give $642.
If those figures are true, I wonder how much of that is 'tithe to the church' , which goes to directly benefiting the people giving in the form of maintaining the church and paying for the pastors, and also providing for religious education?

That's a good point. It might be a large percentage simply goes to the church, which means it goes to a pastor to make them feel better about giving money to the church - which means they are really just giving money to themselves to hire a guy to tell them how great they are and how they'll make it to Heaven and all will be rosey.

That is, isn't tithing really just pooling money together with some friends to have a place to go every weekend? Sure, they might give a little to charity, but the caost of maintaining the church, hiring the staff, paying heat and electric and supplies, rent/mortage, etc. would probably take the bulk of the money, as opposed to giving straight to a worthy charity.... Something to consider...

WinePusher · Post by **WinePusher** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:22 pm

Goat wrote:
East of Eden wrote:
Ooberman wrote:Most Generous Countries in 2008 as donation per citizen in 2008 (report July 2010)

The GHA July 2010 report also lists countries ranked by generosity as donation per citizen from data collected in 2008.[6]

* 1. Luxembourg - $114.4/citizen
* 2. Norway - $95.7/citizen
* 3. Sweden - $65.9/citizen
* 4. Ireland - $55.9/citizen
* 5. Denmark - $54.1/citizen
* 6 The Netherlands - $38.6/citizen
* 7. Kuwait - $32.8/citizen
* 8. Saudi Arabia - $28.7/citizen
* 9. Finland - $27/citizen
* 10. Switzerland - $25.4/citizen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mo ... _countries

BTW, I stand corrected on Muslims as far as Kuwait and SA.
Both religious and secular Americans have Europeans beat, religious Americans give $2,210 a year to charity, secular Americans give $642.
If those figures are true, I wonder how much of that is 'tithe to the church' , which goes to directly benefiting the people giving in the form of maintaining the church and paying for the pastors, and also providing for religious education?

I see, voluntarily giving a portion of your choosing to an institution that runs charitable programs does not constitute charity but having the government coercively strip a portion of your income away from you does count as charity.

Also, by your faulty reasoning we shouldn't give to the Red Cross because a portion of our donations go to fund the buldings, office supplies and so forth.

East of Eden · Post by **East of Eden** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:32 pm

Ooberman wrote:
Goat wrote:
East of Eden wrote:
Ooberman wrote:Most Generous Countries in 2008 as donation per citizen in 2008 (report July 2010)

The GHA July 2010 report also lists countries ranked by generosity as donation per citizen from data collected in 2008.[6]

* 1. Luxembourg - $114.4/citizen
* 2. Norway - $95.7/citizen
* 3. Sweden - $65.9/citizen
* 4. Ireland - $55.9/citizen
* 5. Denmark - $54.1/citizen
* 6 The Netherlands - $38.6/citizen
* 7. Kuwait - $32.8/citizen
* 8. Saudi Arabia - $28.7/citizen
* 9. Finland - $27/citizen
* 10. Switzerland - $25.4/citizen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mo ... _countries

BTW, I stand corrected on Muslims as far as Kuwait and SA.
Both religious and secular Americans have Europeans beat, religious Americans give $2,210 a year to charity, secular Americans give $642.
If those figures are true, I wonder how much of that is 'tithe to the church' , which goes to directly benefiting the people giving in the form of maintaining the church and paying for the pastors, and also providing for religious education?
That's a good point. It might be a large percentage simply goes to the church, which means it goes to a pastor to make them feel better about giving money to the church - which means they are really just giving money to themselves to hire a guy to tell them how great they are and how they'll make it to Heaven and all will be rosey.

That is, isn't tithing really just pooling money together with some friends to have a place to go every weekend? Sure, they might give a little to charity, but the caost of maintaining the church, hiring the staff, paying heat and electric and supplies, rent/mortage, etc. would probably take the bulk of the money, as opposed to giving straight to a worthy charity.... Something to consider...

Nobody forces you to tithe to attend church, I don't think they pastors know who gives what. Anyway, it only makes up 30% of charitable giving by religious Americans, they still give more to secular causes than secular Americans, as well as give much more to friends and family, donate blood more, and are even more likely to return change when overpaid.

Note Biden, who gave only $5K out of a $300K+ income to charity. He certainly is generous with other people's money, not so much with his own.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:54 pm

East of Eden wrote:
Ooberman wrote:Most Generous Countries in 2008 as donation per citizen in 2008 (report July 2010)

The GHA July 2010 report also lists countries ranked by generosity as donation per citizen from data collected in 2008.[6]

* 1. Luxembourg - $114.4/citizen
* 2. Norway - $95.7/citizen
* 3. Sweden - $65.9/citizen
* 4. Ireland - $55.9/citizen
* 5. Denmark - $54.1/citizen
* 6 The Netherlands - $38.6/citizen
* 7. Kuwait - $32.8/citizen
* 8. Saudi Arabia - $28.7/citizen
* 9. Finland - $27/citizen
* 10. Switzerland - $25.4/citizen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mo ... _countries

BTW, I stand corrected on Muslims as far as Kuwait and SA.
Both religious and secular Americans have Europeans beat, religious Americans give $2,210 a year to charity, secular Americans give $642.

Not according to this report where on a per capita basis america doesn't even crack the top ten. If you have data that says different then post it, but claiming that a certain book says everything you want it to say without actually providing the book is a bit disingenuous on your part. After all why should we trust Arthur Brooks more than the GHA?

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:00 pm

Note Biden, who gave only $5K out of a $300K+ income to charity. He certainly is generous with other people's money, not so much with his own.

Lol, well if you are going to start mentioning how much politicians give versus the governments you are always going to show the individual giving less regardless of political affiliation. Care to post how much Cheney gave when he was in office?

East of Eden · Post by **East of Eden** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:23 am

Wyvern wrote: Lol, well if you are going to start mentioning how much politicians give versus the governments you are always going to show the individual giving less regardless of political affiliation. Care to post how much Cheney gave when he was in office?

Glad you asked, Cheney gave 5.5% of his income to charity vs. .3% for Biden. If only Biden were that frugal with our money.

Bush gave 17.6% vs. 5.6% for Obama.

http://dailycaller.com/2010/04/16/on-ta ... le-giving/

East of Eden · Post by **East of Eden** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:25 am

Wyvern wrote:
East of Eden wrote:
Ooberman wrote:Most Generous Countries in 2008 as donation per citizen in 2008 (report July 2010)

The GHA July 2010 report also lists countries ranked by generosity as donation per citizen from data collected in 2008.[6]

* 1. Luxembourg - $114.4/citizen
* 2. Norway - $95.7/citizen
* 3. Sweden - $65.9/citizen
* 4. Ireland - $55.9/citizen
* 5. Denmark - $54.1/citizen
* 6 The Netherlands - $38.6/citizen
* 7. Kuwait - $32.8/citizen
* 8. Saudi Arabia - $28.7/citizen
* 9. Finland - $27/citizen
* 10. Switzerland - $25.4/citizen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mo ... _countries

BTW, I stand corrected on Muslims as far as Kuwait and SA.
Both religious and secular Americans have Europeans beat, religious Americans give $2,210 a year to charity, secular Americans give $642.
Not according to this report where on a per capita basis america doesn't even crack the top ten. If you have data that says different then post it, but claiming that a certain book says everything you want it to say without actually providing the book is a bit disingenuous on your part. After all why should we trust Arthur Brooks more than the GHA?

Your mixing apples and oranges, your chart shows foreign aid, not individual charitable giving. In real dollar terms the US is still the largest giver in that category, despite shouldering Europe's defense costs.

flitzerbiest · Post by **flitzerbiest** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:55 am

East of Eden wrote:Your mixing apples and oranges, your chart shows foreign aid, not individual charitable giving. In real dollar terms the US is still the largest giver in that category, despite shouldering Europe's defense costs.

We are the wealthiest nation in the world. It would only be surprising if we did not give more to charity than the rest. BTW, you are apparently still conflating tithes to churches with charity. They are not the same thing.