A Guide To Catholic Creed and Doctrine

[WinePusher]

Here's a guide to what we Catholics believe:

1) The church is not an ideological church. The churches positions on issues are driven from Scripture and Sacred Tradition, and the church takes both conservative and liberals positions. We, as a church, don't align ourselves with one particular philosophy

2) We do not worship Mary, we honor her as her son did. We do not worship Saints, we revere their holy lifestyle and try to model our own lives after them. We do believe in the real presence of Jesus Christ in Communion, and we do believe that Jesus Christ is our savior who died for our sins.

3) We believe that the Bible is our primary source of truth, and we devote substantiale amounts of time to studying God's word. Our traditions in mass are taken from the Gospels, however we also recognize that God has provided means of attaining truth from other outlets, not only the Bible.

4) We are not a rash and impulsive people. The changes that the Church as undergone have taken long periods of time with vaticans and bishops and cardinals called to debate and vote on changes. We are also a people who love traditions and rituals, and we implement many traditions that have been passed on throughout the centuries in our worship.

5) We are a universal people, and language does not pose a problem for us. Our worship is so uniform that a French catholic can come to a Middle Eastern Catholic church and understand the mass even if it's in a different language.

6) We are a church and a people who have failed many, many times. We are an imperfect and broken church that is responsible for alot of.....stuff.....in the past and present. But we do make strong efforts to reform our behavior and right any wrongs we have committed.

[Lux]

What is the catholic stand (if there is any) about the afterlife, salvation, hell, death, etc?

My catechism teacher believed in and taught us about a literal hell, and that the only way to avoid it and obtain salvation was through the Catholic Church, but I was told that's not what all catholics believe.


(Sorry if it's not appropriate to ask in this thread, feel free to move it elsewhere)

[WinePusher]

What is the catholic stand (if there is any) about the afterlife, salvation, hell, death, etc?

My catechism teacher believed in and taught us about a literal hell, and that the only way to avoid it and obtain salvation was through the Catholic Church, but I was told that's not what all catholics believe.

(Sorry if it's not appropriate to ask in this thread, feel free to move it elsewhere)

That's ok, this thread is perfectly fine.

The Catholic Stand on the afterlife would be basically the same as the general Christian Stand. One doctrine that Catholics used to profess was known as "Ex Eccelsia Nova Solis" which translates into salvation in the church alone (I think).

This is not the Catholic position anymore though. Catholics believe hell is eternal, however depending on the severity of your sin you may go to purgatory and have your sins slowly purged before you enter into heaven. Some sects of Catholics believe that salvation is not as cut and dry as protestants make it out to be, there may be some possibility that a good non-believer could attain salvation because only God knows the inner workings of a persons mind. Others would say that if you die with any sn on you and without having gone to confession you're hell bound. Somemore conservative catholics (even some in my church) would advocate the buying of indulgences to attain your way into heaven, it's surprising that Catholics such as these still even exist.

My personal belief is that anyone with a good heart and a good intention will be blessed with salvation from God. The large consensus amoung Christians from all denominations is that salvation is a gift, not something we can earn or attainon our own, and we have the right to reject this gift if we choose to. Nothing is forced upon us.

[Lux]

Thanks for replying.

Somemore conservative catholics (even some in my church) would advocate the buying of indulgences to attain your way into heaven, it's surprising that Catholics such as these still even exist.

Wow. I though the whole "Pardoner" thing was almost universally regarded as a "dark period" by catholics.

My personal belief is that anyone with a good heart and a good intention will be blessed with salvation from God. The large consensus amoung Christians from all denominations is that salvation is a gift, not something we can earn or attainon our own, and we have the right to reject this gift if we choose to. Nothing is forced upon us.

Nice.

Do catholics believe in a literal Hell? Fire and torture and that, or the separation from god?

[TomD]

Hi Lux —

What is the catholic stand (if there is any) about the afterlife...

Big questions, hard to tackle in a moment ... but the afterlife in Catholic terms is not merely a continuation of being, but a direct incorporation and participation in the Source of Being, the Divine Life, which we refer to as the Mystical Body ...

salvation...

From above, 'Salvation' is becoming one in and with the Mystical Body, and as such one participates in the Divine Life of the Blessed Trinity.

hell...

That's an interesting one.

Our Lord spoke of 'Gehenna', this was, in Jesus' day, a valley outside Jerusalem that was considered impure ground, and was something of a rubbish tip for the city's detritus, including bodies of dead foreigners who had no-one to claim them ... so the image Our Lord was painting was basically one of being discarded and unwanted and playing no part in the scheme of things ... gehenna was a place of rubbish tips, fires, desolation, despair ...

Much of our contemporary imagery of hell we owe to the rather fervid imagination of the Medievalists, so most of it we can ignore.

Personally I prefer the rather more 'esoteric' idea of hell being a privation, rather than a place where we stand up to our necks in fire and poo, being tormented by trident-wielding demons ... and beyond the idea of privation, the ultimate privation of being, so the soul, cut off from the Source of Being, commences its own extinction, as we are not self-sustaining entities.

Trouble is, such notions do not 'move' or 'impact' on man as much as the rather more graphic images of pain, torment, suffering, etc ...

death, etc?

Ultimately, the extinction of being.

My catechism teacher believed in and taught us about a literal hell, and that the only way to avoid it and obtain salvation was through the Catholic Church, but I was told that's not what all catholics believe.

I would say hell does exist as a state, rather than a place ... the great shame is that people are motivated more by what they want not to happen, rather than what they want to happen ... so the 'love God or you're for it' is not quite 'on message' as far as God is concerned.

God bless,

Thomas

[ThatGirlAgain]

Personally I prefer the rather more 'esoteric' idea of hell being a privation, rather than a place where we stand up to our necks in fire and poo, being tormented by trident-wielding demons ... and beyond the idea of privation, the ultimate privation of being, so the soul, cut off from the Source of Being, commences its own extinction, as we are not self-sustaining entities.

Trouble is, such notions do not 'move' or 'impact' on man as much as the rather more graphic images of pain, torment, suffering, etc ...

While some Catholics these days may not believe in Hell as a place of painful punishment , it is still very much Church teaching that this is the case. However it is true that separation from God is viewed as the primary punishment.

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire." The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a12.htm

This notion of dual punishment is also found in the Act of Contrition prayer.

O my God! I am heartily sorry
For having offended Thee and
I detest all my sins, because
I dread the loss of Heaven and the pains of Hell;
But most of all because I have offended Thee, My God,
Who art all-good and deserving of all my love.
I firmly resolve, with the help of Thy grace,
To confess my sins, to do penance,
And to amend my life. Amen.

http://www.roman-catholic-catechism.com ... ition.html

My catechism teacher believed in and taught us about a literal hell, and that the only way to avoid it and obtain salvation was through the Catholic Church, but I was told that's not what all catholics believe.

Admittedly a confusing point. Baptism means entry into the Mystical Body of Christ and is essential for salvation. But it comes in more than one flavor. Being a literal Catholic is not necessarily important.

279 The fruit of Baptism, or baptismal grace, is a rich reality that includes forgiveness of original sin and all personal sins, birth into the new life by which man becomes an adoptive son of the Father, a member of Christ and a temple of the Holy Spirit. By this very fact the person baptized is incorporated into the Church, the Body of Christ, and made a sharer in the priesthood of Christ.
1280 Baptism imprints on the soul an indelible spiritual sign, the character, which consecrates the baptized person for Christian worship. Because of the character Baptism cannot be repeated.
1281 Those who die for the faith, those who are catechumens, and all those who, without knowing of the Church but acting under the inspiration of grace, seek God sincerely and strive to fulfill his will, can be saved even if they have not been baptized.

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c1a1.htm

This is called Baptism of Desire.

Baptism of Desire is one of the two possible substitutes for Baptism of water. When it is not possible thus to be baptized, an act of perfect contrition or pure love of God will supply the omission. Such acts are a perfect and ultimate disposition calling for the infusion of sanctifying grace, and at least implicitly include a desire and intention to receive Baptism of water should occasion offer. Infants are not capable of Baptism of desire. An heathen, believing, even though in a confused way, in a God whose will should be done and desiring to do that will whatever it may be, probably has Baptism of desire. It may reasonably be assumed that vast numbers of persons unbaptized by water have thus been rendered capable of enjoying the Beatific Vision.

http://www.catholicessentials.net/baptismofdesire.htm

[Question Everything]

I dread the loss of Heaven and the pains of Hell;

Just out of curiosity, were you brought up to believe that you could lose your salvation and go to Hell if you sinned enough?

[ThatGirlAgain]

I dread the loss of Heaven and the pains of Hell;

Just out of curiosity, were you brought up to believe that you could lose your salvation and go to Hell if you sinned enough?

I was raised Catholic. Those who die in a state of mortal sin go to Hell.

"Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."
(The Catholic Catechism again)

Venial sin is any sin that is not mortal by the above definition. Those who have committed venial sins go to Purgatory, a temporary place of suffering. Only those completely purified of sin can enter Heaven. It is a common misconception that confessing a venial sin and receiving absolution removes all penalty. In Catholic doctrine this is often not the case. There may still be dues to pay for venial sins that are technically forgiven but are not totally repented of, or for mortal sins that were forgiven. Unlike some Protestant opinions, in Catholic doctrine if Hitler sincerely repented and asked for forgiveness as he was dying, he might avoid Hell but could spend a really long time in Purgatory. Earthly actions and experiences can help reduce the suffering in Purgatory - good works, suffering, certain prescribed actions.

[TomD]

While some Catholics these days may not believe in Hell as a place of painful punishment, it is still very much Church teaching that this is the case. However it is true that separation from God is viewed as the primary punishment.

I totally agree ... the point is I reject the ideas of punishment that derive from the medieval mindset. Dante's Divine Comedy, for example, is a work of classic literature, but it is not sound theology.

The Greek idea of Hades has similarities to the Old Testament idea of Sheol, as "the place of the dead", but is used of both the righteous and the sinful.
Christ used the term 'Gehenna', a reference to the Valley of Hinnon" which was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. It was believed to be tainted ground, a place where garbage was dumped, and where the bodies of the dead who had no family or friends to claim them were disposed of there. Although the image is one of stench, smoke and fire (and Christ spoke of purifying fire elsewhere), the idea of abandonment, of being thrown away, actually frightens me more.

We must be mindful not to overcome the word of Scripture with a rather romantic and fanciful notion of Christ and His message, that reduces Christ to an insurance policy, or a 'get out of jail free' card, and renders 'hell' as some kind of poetic notion, without any reality.

It's very real.

I would advise anyone interested to read paragraphs 46-48 of Pope Benedict XVI's encyclical Spe Salvi, it offers some sound insights.

God bless,

Thomas

[TomD]

Just out of curiosity, were you brought up to believe that you could lose your salvation and go to Hell if you sinned enough?

Well that's what Christ said, so it's pretty fundamental to Christianity.

On the other hand, if one argues that you cannot lose one's salvation, then the whole thing becomes a nonsense ... Christianity is based on the free choice to accept God or not, and that decision, either way, must have logical consequences.

God bless,

Thomas