Ok, so what's everybodies predications on the upcoming 2010 congressional elections?
I think republicans will take a sweeping majority in the House, and will get huge gains in the senate (but won't regain the majority).
Key races to look out for are:
California Senate: Carly Fiorina (R) vs. Barbara Boxer (D)
Delaware Senate: Christine O' Donnell (R) vs. Chris Coons (D)
Nevada Senate:Sharon Angle (R) vs. Harry Reid (D)
Florida Senate: Marco Rubio (R) vs. Chris Cristie (I)
I also predict republican victories in every single one of these races, even though they are very tight races.
I realize there's nothing religious about this, but I thought it'd be an interesting discussion in light of the upcoming elections. If moderators feel this is inappropriate they can delete it or lock it.
The 2010 Election
Moderator: Moderators
- East of Eden
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Post #101
Want to compare Obama's 'recovery' with Reagan's?micatala wrote:
The recovery is slow. Whether we have a right to expect it to be faster given the steps that were taken is a good question. We can be fairly certain that we would be in much worse shape now without those actions. Keep in mind TARP and the auto bailouts will very likely in the end be deficit neutral or actually make the taxpayers money. Thus, there is really no downside to those actions, and most economists think the first saved us from a melt down and the second saved several hundred thousdand jobs.
Also keep in mind this recession had several aggravating factors, besides being the worst recession since the 1930's. I am not sure how you have any basis for expecting us to have recovered more than we already have.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 24906.html
"We are fooling ourselves if we imagine that we can ever make the authentic Gospel popular......it is too simple in an age of rationalism; too narrow in an age of pluralism; too humiliating in an age of self-confidence; too demanding in an age of permissiveness; and too unpatriotic in an age of blind nationalism." Rev. John R.W. Stott, CBE
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Post #102
Exactly. There are companies purposely keeping their employee numbers under 50 as going over that results in more burdens from Obamacare.WinePusher wrote: Heard about how Obamacare is conflicting with companies and their insurance policies? Heard about how Missouri voted to repeal parts of it? Heard about how the people who are being governed should have the ability to consent to the polices being imposed on them?
It was supposed to save money, in reality it only shifts the burdens to the states, many of whom are already broke due to their union contracts. I predict the new GOP governors will be throwing lots of sand into the gears of Obamacare.
"We are fooling ourselves if we imagine that we can ever make the authentic Gospel popular......it is too simple in an age of rationalism; too narrow in an age of pluralism; too humiliating in an age of self-confidence; too demanding in an age of permissiveness; and too unpatriotic in an age of blind nationalism." Rev. John R.W. Stott, CBE
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Post #103
Hey Grumpy, didn't you say the Democrats would lose 15 house seats?Grumpy wrote:Until 1970, no session of Congress had more than ten votes on cloture to end a filibuster. Until 2007, the record was 58. But since Democrats regained control of the Senate, filibusters have skyrocketed. The last session had a new record of 112. Filibuster has been used by the "Just say no" Republicans so often that two years after he was elected Obama cannot even get a vote on essential government appointments of department heads. "Just say no" without any reason except that it is Obama asking is really, really stupid, and, at a time when we need our government to work, it gets absolutely nothing done. The Reps are sacrificing the needs and the will of the people to protect the rich and their obscene greed and profits at the people's expense. I didn't get bailed out, nor did 95% plus of the people in this country. W bailed out the rich after the rich(aided by W's deregulation)drove our economy into the ditch. The people lost their retirements, savings, homes and jobs while the rich got multi million dollar bonuses and golden parachutes. And that's on top of the previous 8 years of help from W and the Reps. Do we really want these people driving the economy again?
Grumpy

"We are fooling ourselves if we imagine that we can ever make the authentic Gospel popular......it is too simple in an age of rationalism; too narrow in an age of pluralism; too humiliating in an age of self-confidence; too demanding in an age of permissiveness; and too unpatriotic in an age of blind nationalism." Rev. John R.W. Stott, CBE
Post #104
Oh please, enough already, employers have been keeping their employee numbers under fifty if possible for decades so they don't have to pay into unemployment insurance or follow other rules for what is defined as a larger business. The clause you are talking about where businesses with more than fifty employees have to provide coverage doesn't kick in until 2014. How can a law that doesn't even go into effect for four years be causing all of these difficulties that you complain so much about?East of Eden wrote:Exactly. There are companies purposely keeping their employee numbers under 50 as going over that results in more burdens from Obamacare.WinePusher wrote: Heard about how Obamacare is conflicting with companies and their insurance policies? Heard about how Missouri voted to repeal parts of it? Heard about how the people who are being governed should have the ability to consent to the polices being imposed on them?
It was supposed to save money, in reality it only shifts the burdens to the states, many of whom are already broke due to their union contracts. I predict the new GOP governors will be throwing lots of sand into the gears of Obamacare.

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Post #105
Businesses plan for the future, the future says Obamacare is a reality, so business is planning for Obamacare.Wyvern wrote:Oh please, enough already, employers have been keeping their employee numbers under fifty if possible for decades so they don't have to pay into unemployment insurance or follow other rules for what is defined as a larger business. The clause you are talking about where businesses with more than fifty employees have to provide coverage doesn't kick in until 2014. How can a law that doesn't even go into effect for four years be causing all of these difficulties that you complain so much about?East of Eden wrote:Exactly. There are companies purposely keeping their employee numbers under 50 as going over that results in more burdens from Obamacare.WinePusher wrote: Heard about how Obamacare is conflicting with companies and their insurance policies? Heard about how Missouri voted to repeal parts of it? Heard about how the people who are being governed should have the ability to consent to the polices being imposed on them?
It was supposed to save money, in reality it only shifts the burdens to the states, many of whom are already broke due to their union contracts. I predict the new GOP governors will be throwing lots of sand into the gears of Obamacare.Are you a time traveler?
So much for Obama's lie that he wouldn't raise taxes on anyone making under $250K:
"$5 billion Medicine Cabinet Tax Increase on HSAs and FSAs: Approximately, 2.9 million people have HSAs in the small employer health insurance market, and according to industry sources, 20 million Americans have a Flexible Spending Account. Under ObamaCare, they will pay taxes on over the counter (OTC) nonprescribed household health care items when paid from their HSA or FSA.
$1.4 billion HSA Tax Increase: Approximately, 2.9 million people have HSAs in the small employer health insurance market. ObamaCare increases the tax on nonqualified medical expenses from 10 percent to 20 percent.
$13 billion Tax Increase on FSAs: ObamaCare caps the annual contribution to Flexible Spending Accounts (FSAs) at $2,500 per year. According to industry sources, 20 million Americans use FSAs to pay for routine medical care.
$15.2 billion Tax Increase on Medical Expenses: Under current law, individuals may deduct the cost of their medical expenses, including health insurance, if their expenses exceed 7.5 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI). ObamaCare increases the threshold to 10 percent, which increases taxes on Americans with high out-of-pocket expenses.
$210.1 billion Tax Increase on “Unearned Income� and New Tax on High Wage Earners: ObamaCare includes a new 3.8 percent tax on “unearned income,� which includes investment income such as home sales and rental property. In addition, ObamaCare adds a new 0 .9 percent tax on high-wage earners.
$17 billion Uninsured Tax Increase: ObamaCare requires everyone to buy ObamaCare-qualified insurance or pay a tax. The 2009 Kaiser Family Foundation survey shows that only 46 percent of businesses with fewer than 10 workers offer health benefits to their employees. In addition, three-fourths of firms with 10 to 24 employees and almost 90 percent of firms with 25 to 49 employees provide health insurance. In many cases, the business owner or its employees will buy an individual policy for themselves and their family. If they don’t buy a government-approved health insurance plan, they will have to pay an uninsured tax.
$52 billion “Pay or Play� Tax Increase: Employers with 50 or fewer employees will not be subject to ObamaCare’s health insurance mandate. However, if the company grows and decides to hire its 51st employee, the company must “pay or play.� In other words, it must provide ObamaCare health insurance or pay a $2,000 per employee tax if it doesn’t provide coverage. In addition, if an employee uses the ObamaCare tax credit to buy insurance in the exchange, employers still have to pay a penalty.
$20 billion Tax Increase on Medical Device Manufacturers: ObamaCare includes a 2.3 percent tax on medical device manufacturers, which totals $20 billion over 10 years. President Obama’s chief actuary at the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services concludes this tax increase will be passed along to consumers in the form of higher costs. Furthermore, 84.6 percent of medical device manufacturers employ fewer than 20 employees, according to the latest Census data.
$27 billion Tax Increase on Pharmaceutical Manufacturers: ObamaCare includes a $27 billion tax on pharmaceutical companies. President Obama’s chief actuary at the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services concludes this tax increase will be passed along in the form of higher prices.
$60.1 billion Tax Increase on Health Insurance Companies: ObamaCare includes a $60.1 billion tax on health insurance companies. President Obama’s chief actuary at the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) believes this tax increase will be passed along to health insurance purchasers in the form of higher health insurance prices.
$2.7 billion Tax Increase on Indoor Tanning Services: According to tanning industry sources, more than 50 percent of indoor tanning salons are owned by women and most are small employers."
"We are fooling ourselves if we imagine that we can ever make the authentic Gospel popular......it is too simple in an age of rationalism; too narrow in an age of pluralism; too humiliating in an age of self-confidence; too demanding in an age of permissiveness; and too unpatriotic in an age of blind nationalism." Rev. John R.W. Stott, CBE
Post #106
East of Eden
Angle lost as well 2-0
The reps got(so far)about 6 seats 3-0
The huge influx of corporate money swamped the election, giving the corporations some 60 more bought and paid for shills. 3-1
A winning percentage of 75% on my part.
Now, let's look at the OP...
I will take 75% over 25% all day long.
The turnout in a mid term election is always down, the Tea Party and huge amounts of corporate bribery(you don't think they give tens of millions away without strings, do you?), the bad economy and the higher age of the voters who did show all affected the outcome.
Prepare for the spanking in 2012, you've just pissed off the majority of the country. Go right ahead in trying to repeal health care, financial reform and other legislation. You will lose and the prospect of Republicans being shown on TV arguing that insurance companies can throw you off their roles if you get sick, or that insurance companies can deny coverage for pre-existing conditions gives Democrats tingly feelings. Enjoy your two years of power in the House. Maybe the Reps will be...unwise enough to nominate Palin for Pres. Dems can only hope.
By the way, the Tea Party only elected ~30% of their candidates, one of which is Rand Paul. RP is a Libertarian with views and aims very different from the Republican majority. He is now a Senator. He cannot be bought off, he says he will not compromise and it only takes one Senator to bring progress to a screeching halt in the Senate. And HE OWES NOTHING TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. The Reps are not going to have a good time with him(unless he sells out on his principles).
Grumpy
Grumpy wrote:Hey Grumpy, didn't you say the Democrats would lose 15 house seats?
O'Donald lost big time, score 1-0WinePusher
O'Donald will lose her race bigtime. She is not a serious candidate.
Angle will also lose to Reid, though I wish Reid was not the alternative.
The other two are really too close to call.
The Dems will probably lose around 15 seats in the House, and maybe about 6 seats in the Senate but will retain control in both houses. The Reps will not be able to continue to just say no, not if they want to get reelected for another term. They will have to learn how to compromise.
Angle lost as well 2-0
The reps got(so far)about 6 seats 3-0
The huge influx of corporate money swamped the election, giving the corporations some 60 more bought and paid for shills. 3-1
A winning percentage of 75% on my part.
Now, let's look at the OP...
One out of four, 1-3, 25%California Senate: Carly Fiorina (R) vs. Barbara Boxer (D)
Delaware Senate: Christine O' Donnell (R) vs. Chris Coons (D)
Nevada Senate:Sharon Angle (R) vs. Harry Reid (D)
Florida Senate: Marco Rubio (R) vs. Chris Cristie (I)
I also predict republican victories in every single one of these races, even though they are very tight races.
I will take 75% over 25% all day long.
The turnout in a mid term election is always down, the Tea Party and huge amounts of corporate bribery(you don't think they give tens of millions away without strings, do you?), the bad economy and the higher age of the voters who did show all affected the outcome.
Prepare for the spanking in 2012, you've just pissed off the majority of the country. Go right ahead in trying to repeal health care, financial reform and other legislation. You will lose and the prospect of Republicans being shown on TV arguing that insurance companies can throw you off their roles if you get sick, or that insurance companies can deny coverage for pre-existing conditions gives Democrats tingly feelings. Enjoy your two years of power in the House. Maybe the Reps will be...unwise enough to nominate Palin for Pres. Dems can only hope.
By the way, the Tea Party only elected ~30% of their candidates, one of which is Rand Paul. RP is a Libertarian with views and aims very different from the Republican majority. He is now a Senator. He cannot be bought off, he says he will not compromise and it only takes one Senator to bring progress to a screeching halt in the Senate. And HE OWES NOTHING TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. The Reps are not going to have a good time with him(unless he sells out on his principles).
Grumpy

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Post #107
Too bad she lost, but no surprise. DE is a liberal state, it's like running Chuck Schumer in Alabama. I'm not postive Castle would have won.Grumpy wrote: O'Donald will lose her race bigtime. She is not a serious candidate.
That was a surprise, although it is very difficult to defeat a Senate majority leader. It hasn't been done in 50 years.Angle will also lose to Reid, though I wish Reid was not the alternative.
The GOP still got outspent by $200 million. About time the playing field was leveled a bit with the corporate involvement.The huge influx of corporate money swamped the election, giving the corporations some 60 more bought and paid for shills.
This is just phase 1, 20 Democratic senators are up for reelection in 2012.Prepare for the spanking in 2012, you've just pissed off the majority of the country.
Most Americans want us to. As Obamacare begins to take effect it will only be more unpopular. We can't repeal it now, but we can take away the funding and challenge it in court. As Democrat Pat Caddell said, passing it against the will of the majority was a crime against Democracy. He predicted just what would happen Tuesday.Go right ahead in trying to repeal health care,
Two more years of Obama incompetence and anybody with an 'R' after their name will look pretty good.Maybe the Reps will be...unwise enough to nominate Palin for Pres. Dems can only hope.
Is Obama going to have a good time with Sen Manchin? The only way he won is by trashing Obama's crackpot ideas.By the way, the Tea Party only elected ~30% of their candidates, one of which is Rand Paul. RP is a Libertarian with views and aims very different from the Republican majority. He is now a Senator. He cannot be bought off, he says he will not compromise and it only takes one Senator to bring progress to a screeching halt in the Senate. And HE OWES NOTHING TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. The Reps are not going to have a good time with him(unless he sells out on his principles).
"We are fooling ourselves if we imagine that we can ever make the authentic Gospel popular......it is too simple in an age of rationalism; too narrow in an age of pluralism; too humiliating in an age of self-confidence; too demanding in an age of permissiveness; and too unpatriotic in an age of blind nationalism." Rev. John R.W. Stott, CBE
Post #108
So you are saying solely because of a new law that wont come into play for another four years is the reason that most businesses are intentionally not expandingBusinesses plan for the future, the future says Obamacare is a reality, so business is planning for Obamacare.


If you republicans have your way he will not have raised any taxes due to the health care reform bill since nearly all of its provisions activate after 2012. The only real way for your statement to be true is if you help him get re-elected.So much for Obama's lie that he wouldn't raise taxes on anyone making under $250K:
I don't see what's wrong with this, it just means these people will have to pay taxes on their aspirin just like everyone else. Or are you one of those people that advocates homeopathic or herbal remedies?"$5 billion Medicine Cabinet Tax Increase on HSAs and FSAs: Approximately, 2.9 million people have HSAs in the small employer health insurance market, and according to industry sources, 20 million Americans have a Flexible Spending Account. Under ObamaCare, they will pay taxes on over the counter (OTC) nonprescribed household health care items when paid from their HSA or FSA.
Then I would say you should only use your HSA on qualified and prescribed expenses. What is so egregious about being required to use something for its intended purpose?$1.4 billion HSA Tax Increase: Approximately, 2.9 million people have HSAs in the small employer health insurance market. ObamaCare increases the tax on nonqualified medical expenses from 10 percent to 20 percent.
This provision only pertains to government workers. How do you call a spending cap a tax? You have on many occasions been derisive of union workers and as such one would think you would be in favor of this since it brings them down closer to our level.$13 billion Tax Increase on FSAs: ObamaCare caps the annual contribution to Flexible Spending Accounts (FSAs) at $2,500 per year. According to industry sources, 20 million Americans use FSAs to pay for routine medical care.
Do you understand what a tax is? So far you have claimed a tax is a cap on savings and now you claim a tax is an increased expense due to an increased differential of your income. I know you like the word but these are not taxes you are talking about.$15.2 billion Tax Increase on Medical Expenses: Under current law, individuals may deduct the cost of their medical expenses, including health insurance, if their expenses exceed 7.5 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI). ObamaCare increases the threshold to 10 percent, which increases taxes on Americans with high out-of-pocket expenses.
Cite?$210.1 billion Tax Increase on “Unearned Income� and New Tax on High Wage Earners: ObamaCare includes a new 3.8 percent tax on “unearned income,� which includes investment income such as home sales and rental property. In addition, ObamaCare adds a new 0 .9 percent tax on high-wage earners.
I don't understand, if what you say here is true then health care reform will affect almost noone since according to you nearly everyone already has health insurance. Again this is not a tax, is the car insurance you are requiired to have a tax? Plus of course if we were sensible and had universal health care we wouldn't be worrying about any of this.$17 billion Uninsured Tax Increase: ObamaCare requires everyone to buy ObamaCare-qualified insurance or pay a tax. The 2009 Kaiser Family Foundation survey shows that only 46 percent of businesses with fewer than 10 workers offer health benefits to their employees. In addition, three-fourths of firms with 10 to 24 employees and almost 90 percent of firms with 25 to 49 employees provide health insurance. In many cases, the business owner or its employees will buy an individual policy for themselves and their family. If they don’t buy a government-approved health insurance plan, they will have to pay an uninsured tax.
According to your previous statement almost ninety percent of employers in this category already provide health coverage so this only affects the last ten percent of employers. How can something which affects so few employers have such a massive cost? Plus of course yet again this is not a tax.$52 billion “Pay or Play� Tax Increase: Employers with 50 or fewer employees will not be subject to ObamaCare’s health insurance mandate. However, if the company grows and decides to hire its 51st employee, the company must “pay or play.� In other words, it must provide ObamaCare health insurance or pay a $2,000 per employee tax if it doesn’t provide coverage. In addition, if an employee uses the ObamaCare tax credit to buy insurance in the exchange, employers still have to pay a penalty.
Cite?$20 billion Tax Increase on Medical Device Manufacturers: ObamaCare includes a 2.3 percent tax on medical device manufacturers, which totals $20 billion over 10 years. President Obama’s chief actuary at the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services concludes this tax increase will be passed along to consumers in the form of higher costs. Furthermore, 84.6 percent of medical device manufacturers employ fewer than 20 employees, according to the latest Census data.
$27 billion Tax Increase on Pharmaceutical Manufacturers: ObamaCare includes a $27 billion tax on pharmaceutical companies. President Obama’s chief actuary at the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services concludes this tax increase will be passed along in the form of higher prices.
$60.1 billion Tax Increase on Health Insurance Companies: ObamaCare includes a $60.1 billion tax on health insurance companies. President Obama’s chief actuary at the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) believes this tax increase will be passed along to health insurance purchasers in the form of higher health insurance prices.
Are you saying that because this particular small business is owned primarily by women it should get special dispensation for an activity which is a known cause of skin cancer. If tanning parlors are give a break even though it causes cancer why not give a similar break to cigarette manufacturers? Or again is this because you want to give a special break to small womens businesses? If such is true why not propose a special tax break for hair salons they are small and primarily owned by women without the whole cancer thing to worry about. Just as smokers pay a large tax to help offset the expenses their habit costs why should not people that frequent tanning parlors do the same?$2.7 billion Tax Increase on Indoor Tanning Services: According to tanning industry sources, more than 50 percent of indoor tanning salons are owned by women and most are small employers.
Post #109
East of Eden
"Republican-aligned groups — including the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and American Crossroads, which GOP strategist Karl Rove helped create — raised tens of millions of dollars to support the party's congressional candidates. Such donations favored Republican candidates by more than a 2-to-1 margin."
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... ?track=rss
"The GOP is awash in campaign cash, much of it from millionaire mom-and-pop Republicans fearful of Obama's left-leaning political agenda.
"Many, many people conservative by nature are horrified and terrified at what they've seen in the last two years, and they feel like they're fighting for the survival of the country," one of the Republican Party's most prominent moneymen told the Daily News.
"I've been at this for a long time, and this is unprecedented. I've never seen anything like it.""
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politic ... nda_a.html
The million and billionaires bought and paid for the Reps win, they will be expecting a return on their investments even though the top two percent of these fatcats already have more than the bottom 50% in our country. Money corrupts, big money corrupts absolutely.
People forget that we are in the economic mess we are in because of the policies of Bush and the Reps, not because of anything Obama has done. Bush was the president of the bailouts, the unfunded wars, the irresponsible tax cuts, the failure of the banks, the housing bubble, the deregulation. Obama inherited this mess less than 18 months ago, nothing he has done caused it to get worse, either. The stimulus cut EVERYONE's taxes(if you make less than $125,000 you are paying less than you did under Bush)and the auto bailout is being paid back with interest(as are the bank bailouts). The Health bill will cut one TRILLION dollars out of the deficit(9 1/2 trillion of which was Bush's)in the next ten years.
It is the corporate masters of the Reps that have stirred this protest, of course the Reps will lie, spin, exagerate and obscure the facts to please them. But the fact remains, they are responsible for the near Depression we are in and if they don't start doing the people's business then in two years many of them will be unemployed just like they caused many of us to be. Poetic Justice.
Grumpy
And what planet do you live on?The GOP still got outspent by $200 million.
"Republican-aligned groups — including the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and American Crossroads, which GOP strategist Karl Rove helped create — raised tens of millions of dollars to support the party's congressional candidates. Such donations favored Republican candidates by more than a 2-to-1 margin."
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... ?track=rss
"The GOP is awash in campaign cash, much of it from millionaire mom-and-pop Republicans fearful of Obama's left-leaning political agenda.
"Many, many people conservative by nature are horrified and terrified at what they've seen in the last two years, and they feel like they're fighting for the survival of the country," one of the Republican Party's most prominent moneymen told the Daily News.
"I've been at this for a long time, and this is unprecedented. I've never seen anything like it.""
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politic ... nda_a.html
The million and billionaires bought and paid for the Reps win, they will be expecting a return on their investments even though the top two percent of these fatcats already have more than the bottom 50% in our country. Money corrupts, big money corrupts absolutely.
Phase 2 will not be happening, the Reps are already overplaying their hand. The number one priority of the Reps? Jobs? Recovery? no. Getting rid of Obama is their number one concern, not the people's business.This is just phase 1, 20 Democratic senators are up for reelection in 2012.
Most of the 40% that bothered to vote this time may have(even then it is not their top priority), but it isn't going to happen. The Dems control the Senate, and Obama will veto any attempts. As to defunding, we'll see, the Dems are not dead and hopefully will start playing hardball with the demigogery of the right. Go ahead, throw people off of the insurance rolls, deny children insurance for pre existing conditions, tell seniors in the donut hole they will not be getting relief. Do the bidding of your corporate sponsors, the American people will not be asleep forever, and when they awake to the fact that the Reps have been acting against the interest of the middle class it won't be pretty.Go right ahead in trying to repeal health care,.
Most Americans want us to.
The majority of Americans either support the Health care legislation or are disappointed that it didn't go far enough. And the most naive of political hacks could have predicted the party in power in today's economic conditions would lose seats, it happened to Reagan, Clinton and now Barrack. But every time it has happened(since 1938)that party wins reelection two years later.As Democrat Pat Caddell said, passing it against the will of the majority was a crime against Democracy. He predicted just what would happen Tuesday.
People forget that we are in the economic mess we are in because of the policies of Bush and the Reps, not because of anything Obama has done. Bush was the president of the bailouts, the unfunded wars, the irresponsible tax cuts, the failure of the banks, the housing bubble, the deregulation. Obama inherited this mess less than 18 months ago, nothing he has done caused it to get worse, either. The stimulus cut EVERYONE's taxes(if you make less than $125,000 you are paying less than you did under Bush)and the auto bailout is being paid back with interest(as are the bank bailouts). The Health bill will cut one TRILLION dollars out of the deficit(9 1/2 trillion of which was Bush's)in the next ten years.
It is the corporate masters of the Reps that have stirred this protest, of course the Reps will lie, spin, exagerate and obscure the facts to please them. But the fact remains, they are responsible for the near Depression we are in and if they don't start doing the people's business then in two years many of them will be unemployed just like they caused many of us to be. Poetic Justice.
Grumpy

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Post #110
Care to give us your source instead of plagiarizing?East of Eden wrote:Businesses plan for the future, the future says Obamacare is a reality, so business is planning for Obamacare.Wyvern wrote:Oh please, enough already, employers have been keeping their employee numbers under fifty if possible for decades so they don't have to pay into unemployment insurance or follow other rules for what is defined as a larger business. The clause you are talking about where businesses with more than fifty employees have to provide coverage doesn't kick in until 2014. How can a law that doesn't even go into effect for four years be causing all of these difficulties that you complain so much about?East of Eden wrote:Exactly. There are companies purposely keeping their employee numbers under 50 as going over that results in more burdens from Obamacare.WinePusher wrote: Heard about how Obamacare is conflicting with companies and their insurance policies? Heard about how Missouri voted to repeal parts of it? Heard about how the people who are being governed should have the ability to consent to the polices being imposed on them?
It was supposed to save money, in reality it only shifts the burdens to the states, many of whom are already broke due to their union contracts. I predict the new GOP governors will be throwing lots of sand into the gears of Obamacare.Are you a time traveler?
So much for Obama's lie that he wouldn't raise taxes on anyone making under $250K:
"$5 billion Medicine Cabinet Tax Increase on HSAs and FSAs: Approximately, 2.9 million people have HSAs in the small employer health insurance market, and according to industry sources, 20 million Americans have a Flexible Spending Account. Under ObamaCare, they will pay taxes on over the counter (OTC) nonprescribed household health care items when paid from their HSA or FSA.
$1.4 billion HSA Tax Increase: Approximately, 2.9 million people have HSAs in the small employer health insurance market. ObamaCare increases the tax on nonqualified medical expenses from 10 percent to 20 percent.
$13 billion Tax Increase on FSAs: ObamaCare caps the annual contribution to Flexible Spending Accounts (FSAs) at $2,500 per year. According to industry sources, 20 million Americans use FSAs to pay for routine medical care.
$15.2 billion Tax Increase on Medical Expenses: Under current law, individuals may deduct the cost of their medical expenses, including health insurance, if their expenses exceed 7.5 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI). ObamaCare increases the threshold to 10 percent, which increases taxes on Americans with high out-of-pocket expenses.
$210.1 billion Tax Increase on “Unearned Income� and New Tax on High Wage Earners: ObamaCare includes a new 3.8 percent tax on “unearned income,� which includes investment income such as home sales and rental property. In addition, ObamaCare adds a new 0 .9 percent tax on high-wage earners.
$17 billion Uninsured Tax Increase: ObamaCare requires everyone to buy ObamaCare-qualified insurance or pay a tax. The 2009 Kaiser Family Foundation survey shows that only 46 percent of businesses with fewer than 10 workers offer health benefits to their employees. In addition, three-fourths of firms with 10 to 24 employees and almost 90 percent of firms with 25 to 49 employees provide health insurance. In many cases, the business owner or its employees will buy an individual policy for themselves and their family. If they don’t buy a government-approved health insurance plan, they will have to pay an uninsured tax.
$52 billion “Pay or Play� Tax Increase: Employers with 50 or fewer employees will not be subject to ObamaCare’s health insurance mandate. However, if the company grows and decides to hire its 51st employee, the company must “pay or play.� In other words, it must provide ObamaCare health insurance or pay a $2,000 per employee tax if it doesn’t provide coverage. In addition, if an employee uses the ObamaCare tax credit to buy insurance in the exchange, employers still have to pay a penalty.
$20 billion Tax Increase on Medical Device Manufacturers: ObamaCare includes a 2.3 percent tax on medical device manufacturers, which totals $20 billion over 10 years. President Obama’s chief actuary at the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services concludes this tax increase will be passed along to consumers in the form of higher costs. Furthermore, 84.6 percent of medical device manufacturers employ fewer than 20 employees, according to the latest Census data.
$27 billion Tax Increase on Pharmaceutical Manufacturers: ObamaCare includes a $27 billion tax on pharmaceutical companies. President Obama’s chief actuary at the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services concludes this tax increase will be passed along in the form of higher prices.
$60.1 billion Tax Increase on Health Insurance Companies: ObamaCare includes a $60.1 billion tax on health insurance companies. President Obama’s chief actuary at the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) believes this tax increase will be passed along to health insurance purchasers in the form of higher health insurance prices.
$2.7 billion Tax Increase on Indoor Tanning Services: According to tanning industry sources, more than 50 percent of indoor tanning salons are owned by women and most are small employers."