Healthcare Reform

[Kuan]

Since the new health care reform bill was passed, are we doing the right thing? Does this new bill take us in the right direction or the wrong direction? I have very little knowledge of this and I want to hear all sides so I can start to develop and gain knowledge of the issue. One thing that I know we need for sure is tort reform but why are so many scared to tackle it? Also why would socialized be better than a capitalized system?

Tort Reform Definition: http://usconservatives.about.com/od/glo ... Reform.htm

New Health Care Law: http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/03/ ... -care-bill

[SailingCyclops]

Since the new health care reform bill was passed, are we doing the right thing? Does this new bill take us in the right direction or the wrong direction?

I think Bill Moyers has expressed my thoughts better than I could.

[youtube][/youtube]
We did the wrong thing, we handed the very people who have been ripping us off to the tune billions of dollars and who wield much power, more money and power-- that money and power should have been handed to us, "We the people of the United States" are America, not the corporate institutions who are interested in nothing but rapacious bottom-line profit.

Bob

[WinePusher]

Since the new health care reform bill was passed, are we doing the right thing?

Hi mormon boy . In my opinion, the healthcare bill reform bill passed by Obama will absolutly take this country in the wrong direction, as it was passed through corrupt deals, the majority of the american people do not want this, and it was passed in a very partisan/one side fashion. If this bill was so good for America, then you would have thought that the entire democrat party, along with moderate republicans, would support it. But the moderate democrats and the entire republican party voted aganist it, showing that the only support for this bill was from the far left of the house and senate.

One thing that I know we need for sure is tort reform but why are so many scared to tackle it? Also why would socialized be better than a capitalized system?

You make very good points. The reason why tort reform was so vehemently fought aganist was because the president himself was a lawyer and realizes that his base of class action attornies makes good money filing frivilous malpractice cases aganist doctors. And you only have to look at the DMV to gain insight into what a government run industry looks like. Now the Hospitals are going to start looking like the DMV as the government took over a private sector industry. A capitalized system is always better than a socialized system, the american people realize that and opposed this bill. But because the liberal mentality is "we know whats best for you" they shoved it down our throats aganist our will.

[Kuan]

Since the new health care reform bill was passed, are we doing the right thing?

Hi mormon boy . In my opinion, the healthcare bill reform bill passed by Obama will absolutly take this country in the wrong direction, as it was passed through corrupt deals, the majority of the american people do not want this, and it was passed in a very partisan/one side fashion. If this bill was so good for America, then you would have thought that the entire democrat party, along with moderate republicans, would support it. But the moderate democrats and the entire republican party voted aganist it, showing that the only support for this bill was from the far left of the house and senate.

One thing that I know we need for sure is tort reform but why are so many scared to tackle it? Also why would socialized be better than a capitalized system?

You make very good points. The reason why tort reform was so vehemently fought aganist was because the president himself was a lawyer and realizes that his base of class action attornies makes good money filing frivilous malpractice cases aganist doctors. And you only have to look at the DMV to gain insight into what a government run industry looks like. Now the Hospitals are going to start looking like the DMV as the government took over a private sector industry. A capitalized system is always better than a socialized system, the american people realize that and opposed this bill. But because the liberal mentality is "we know whats best for you" they shoved it down our throats aganist our will.

I completley argree with you but thats the only view I have of it and I was hoping that maybe I could find a liberal who supports this bill to debate with.

[Crazy Ivan]

Hi mormon boy . In my opinion, the healthcare bill reform bill passed by Obama will absolutly take this country in the wrong direction, as it was passed through corrupt deals, the majority of the american people do not want this(...)

I would say the majority of the American people does not want what they do not understand, whether it's the actual issue or even just poll questions, which is legitimate, but not the "grown-up" criteria by which to pass or not to pass reform.

and it was passed in a very partisan/one side fashion. If this bill was so good for America, then you would have thought that the entire democrat party, along with moderate republicans, would support it. But the moderate democrats and the entire republican party voted aganist it, showing that the only support for this bill was from the far left of the house and senate.

And you're asking us to believe the Republican party wouldn't consider it perfectly legitimate if the roles were reversed? How much gullibility from our end do you think that requires? -edit: For instance, the electoral college system doesn't necessarily reflect the will of the majority of people, but oddly enough the legitimacy of the system wasn't an issue for Republicans in 2000.

But because the liberal mentality is "we know whats best for you" they shoved it down our throats aganist our will.

That's what happens with children. They get medicine either shoved down their throats or shoved up their a... If people don't want to be treated like children, they shouldn't behave as children, such as indulging in child-like "no" phases.

[Wyvern]

Since the new health care reform bill was passed, are we doing the right thing? Does this new bill take us in the right direction or the wrong direction?

Essentially the health care bill does virtually nothing other than create a public HMO for people that the regular HMOs have rejected due to preexisting conditions.

One thing that I know we need for sure is tort reform but why are so many scared to tackle it?

Tort law abuse is kind of like airplane crashes it is relatively rare but when it happens it gets huge coverage and even though you can point to the statistics that show air travel to be much safer than cars people are still convinced air travel is unsafe. Just as with frivolous malpractice cases, they are uncommon but when it happens it gets massive media coverage and again you can point to the stats that show they are uncommon and many are overturned on appeal but because of the coverage they get as opposed to most malpractice cases people are convinced they are common.

Also why would socialized be better than a capitalized system?

Currently the HMO run health care system we have is and has been for a long time outstripping the inflation rate in regards to cost, if you negate the drive for profits in the HMO system a good portion of that increased cost goes away. Also of course socialized medicine covers everyone while the capitalist system chooses who they will cover in order to maximize their profits. Mind you these people the HMOs reject still get health care and everyone is paying for it because they most times get picked up by medicare after they go bankrupt from having to pay their own health expenses.

[Kuan]

One thing that I know we need for sure is tort reform but why are so many scared to tackle it?

Tort law abuse is kind of like airplane crashes it is relatively rare but when it happens it gets huge coverage and even though you can point to the statistics that show air travel to be much safer than cars people are still convinced air travel is unsafe. Just as with frivolous malpractice cases, they are uncommon but when it happens it gets massive media coverage and again you can point to the stats that show they are uncommon and many are overturned on appeal but because of the coverage they get as opposed to most malpractice cases people are convinced they are common.

That is completely false. I might not be well informed on the rest of the issues but I know tort reform and frivolous lawsuits. They happen all the time, ask any doctor or medical professional. I also know that if that reform is passed then it would create even less costs for healthcare because doctors dont have to spend insane amounts of money on insurance therefore lowering the price of healthcare. The reason some are all over the media is because those are huge deals that media organizations know readers will like! Ex. Mcdonalds being sued for not telling a customer that their coffee is hot.

Also why would socialized be better than a capitalized system?

Currently the HMO run health care system we have is and has been for a long time outstripping the inflation rate in regards to cost, if you negate the drive for profits in the HMO system a good portion of that increased cost goes away. Also of course socialized medicine covers everyone while the capitalist system chooses who they will cover in order to maximize their profits. Mind you these people the HMOs reject still get health care and everyone is paying for it because they most times get picked up by medicare after they go bankrupt from having to pay their own health expenses.

If you negate the drive for profit you also negate the incentive for doctors to do good jobs and for college students to become doctors. An important field in society becomes a field where people have no incentive to do it. Ex. teachers!!!

[Kuan]

Hi mormon boy . In my opinion, the healthcare bill reform bill passed by Obama will absolutly take this country in the wrong direction, as it was passed through corrupt deals, the majority of the american people do not want this(...)

I would say the majority of the American people does not want what they do not understand, whether it's the actual issue or even just poll questions, which is legitimate, but not the "grown-up" criteria by which to pass or not to pass reform.

and it was passed in a very partisan/one side fashion. If this bill was so good for America, then you would have thought that the entire democrat party, along with moderate republicans, would support it. But the moderate democrats and the entire republican party voted aganist it, showing that the only support for this bill was from the far left of the house and senate.

And you're asking us to believe the Republican party wouldn't consider it perfectly legitimate if the roles were reversed? How much gullibility from our end do you think that requires? -edit: For instance, the electoral college system doesn't necessarily reflect the will of the majority of people, but oddly enough the legitimacy of the system wasn't an issue for Republicans in 2000.

But because the liberal mentality is "we know whats best for you" they shoved it down our throats aganist our will.

That's what happens with children. They get medicine either shoved down their throats or shoved up their a... If people don't want to be treated like children, they shouldn't behave as children, such as indulging in child-like "no" phases.

What if that parent makes a mistake?

Disclosure: Im not saying republicans are children, just posting a what if.

[WinePusher]

I would say the majority of the American people does not want what they do not understand, whether it's the actual issue or even just poll questions, which is legitimate, but not the "grown-up" criteria by which to pass or not to pass reform.

This is exactly the liberal mentality of "we know whats best for you." Liberals cannot fathom the idea that Americans do not want their healthcare taken over by the government, thus they must not understand it. Maybe they do understand it and reject it on the basis of merit, not ignorance.

and it was passed in a very partisan/one side fashion. If this bill was so good for America, then you would have thought that the entire democrat party, along with moderate republicans, would support it. But the moderate democrats and the entire republican party voted aganist it, showing that the only support for this bill was from the far left of the house and senate.

And you're asking us to believe the Republican party wouldn't consider it perfectly legitimate if the roles were reversed? How much gullibility from our end do you think that requires? -edit: For instance, the electoral college system doesn't necessarily reflect the will of the majority of people, but oddly enough the legitimacy of the system wasn't an issue for Republicans in 2000.

Ok.......But this doesn't have anything to do with the fact that moderate democrats and republicans rebelled aganist the Obamacare bill.

That's what happens with children. They get medicine either shoved down their throats or shoved up their a... If people don't want to be treated like children, they shouldn't behave as children, such as indulging in child-like "no" phases.

So because the majority of the American people are opposed to socialized healthcare, they are children? This is the demonization tactics of the left, you oppose Obama, you're a racist, you don't want socialism in America, your a child, you want to maintain traditional, homophobic you are.

[Wyvern]

That is completely false. I might not be well informed on the rest of the issues but I know tort reform and frivolous lawsuits. They happen all the time, ask any doctor or medical professional. I also know that if that reform is passed then it would create even less costs for healthcare because doctors dont have to spend insane amounts of money on insurance therefore lowering the price of healthcare. The reason some are all over the media is because those are huge deals that media organizations know readers will like! Ex. Mcdonalds being sued for not telling a customer that their coffee is hot.

Thank you for proving my point.

http://mymedicalmalpracticeinsurance.com/news/?p=596

http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/stor ... rial2.html

http://www.weknowinjurylaw.com/library/ ... wsuits.pdf
As I said earlier I can show you all the stats in the world that shows that not just the number of malpractice suits are down but the awards are also way down from their peak in the mid 1990's. Just like people that are convinced flying is more dangerous than driving people that are convinced malpractice suits are a major problem will not be swayed by the evidence.

If you negate the drive for profit you also negate the incentive for doctors to do good jobs and for college students to become doctors. An important field in society becomes a field where people have no incentive to do it. Ex. teachers!!!

It is the HMOs not the doctors that have a profit incentive, doctors already are for the most part independant contractors to the HMOs. The HMO dictates what procedures are allowed for each condition, also of course doctors are one of those professions that you don't really want them to have a profit motive otherwise they could order any test or prescribe any medication they want and you a layperson would be none the wiser. Doctors already have a strong disincentive to get into general practice, heavy workloads mandated by their HMO, massive amounts of paperwork from both the government and the HMO and relative to specialists low pay. The same is true for nurses which we are at a crisis point with their numbers. As far as teachers go you can blame the property owners of where ever you live if they are not willing to tax themselves enough in order to attract better teachers.