Israel's Racist policies finally under Church disapproval

[DeBunkem]

It's a tepid, but good, start.

Presbyterians: End Israel aid over settlements
By PATRICK CONDON, Associated Press Writer Patrick Condon, Associated Press Writer
Sat Jul 10, 12:29 am ET

.MINNEAPOLIS – Presbyterian leaders strongly backed a proposal Friday that included a call to end U.S. aid to Israel unless the country stops settlement expansions in disputed Palestinian territories.

But they said the 172-page report, which details their church's approach to issues in the Middle East, was a sincere effort to mend long-standing fractures between the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) and Jewish groups.

It earned qualified praise but also criticism from pro-Israel organizations, which have long taken issue with various Presbyterian statements on Middle East peace.

Church delegates approved the report by an 82 percent vote during the church's general assembly in Minneapolis. It's meant as a comprehensive guide to the denomination's more than 2 million members on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

"We feel we've brought together people who previously had trouble talking about some of these issues together," said Rev. Karen Dimon, pastor at Northminster Presbyterian Church in North Syracuse, N.Y., and chairwoman of the committee that produced the report.

Ethan Felson, vice president of the Jewish Council for Public Affairs, said he still took issue with major aspects of the report, but said it contained "important signals" that could lessen long-standing tension between Presbyterians and pro-Israel Jews. He said it strengthens support for Israel's right to exist and removes comparisons of Israeli policy to apartheid.

"Concerns remain, but I have hope that authentic dialogue and better relations can come of this," Felson said.

The Anti-Defamation League said the report managed to "avoid a rupture with Jewish people, but bias against Israel continues." The Simon Wiesenthal Center said the report "takes definite sides in a complex struggle."

But the Rev. J.C. Austin, director of the Center for Christian Leadership at New York City's Auburn Seminary, disagreed.

"We are refusing to designate a winner or loser," said Austin, who helped prepare the report.

The denomination's relationship with Jewish groups took a hit in 2004, when the church's general assembly voted to authorize "phased selective divestment in multinational corporations operating in Israel" because of Israel's policies toward Palestinians. That stance has since been softened, and this year convention delegates voted down an amendment to the Middle East report that would have put divestment back on the table.

Despite the strong convention vote, some delegates expressed concern that the Middle East report remained too slanted toward a Palestinian perspective.

"There are many longtime friends in the Jewish community who believe this report misstates Jewish theology and misquotes the Jewish voice," said the Rev. Susan Zencka, pastor at Frame Memorial Presbyterian Church in Stevens Point, Wis. "We have come to a position of Palestine good, Israel bad. Life is not that simple."

But supporters stressed that the overarching goal of the report is to encourage activism toward peace in the Middle East.

"I fully support a state of Israel, but I also believe Israel's peace will not come until they seek peace with Palestinians," said Dottie Villesvik, a church elder from Everett, Wash.

The church's annual convention is scheduled through Saturday. It began July 3.

http://tinyurl.com/2bd6nmf

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 19:

...
I would agree that it’s always a good thing when the truth comes out, including blatant and vicious anti-Semitic hatred and bigotry. “Blood sucking Israel� and “Jewish-controlled media� are dead giveaways, not to mention the claim of Israeli involvement in 9-11 as an established and “undeniable� fact.
...

Yet one more in a long line.

When will it ever end?

Either the original poster of that material failed to fully fete it, or is in agreement. Either way I find much to be desired.
---------------------

From Post 20:

Thanks for the research, Cnorman! You'd think people would get tired of blaming Israel and Jews for all the evils of the world.

Well ding-dangit, it can't be MY fault!

I too cringe when I hear folks carry on about some great Jewish conspiracy. I find more anti-Jewish conspiracy than any other in my travels.

I'm currently disappointed that I'm not going to be spending August in Israel as planned--I ended up having to take summer classes--because as much as some Israeli policies drive me crazy, overall I have a lot of affection for this scrappy, self-starting nation that's not only survived against near-impossible odds, but has proved so darn technologically innovative. No wonder it attracts so much venture capitalism!

I hope you and I both get to go - though my going would be to fight with 'em.

LONG LIVE ISRAEL! LONG LIVE ISRAELIS!

I love the forthrightness and informality and, yeah, sheer chutzpah of Israeli culture, too. There are so many things I love about Israel.

I love the fact they are willing to do what is necessary to ensure their survival - and damn the opinions of those not faced with such a task.

But that doesn't mean I can't critique it. I don't like the Orthodox control over the Jewish religion. I'd freeze the settlements on the off chance that it will do some good. I'll keep praying for a peaceful two-state solution.

Me 'n you both. Let's love Israel like a family member - where when it goofs up we are compelled to speak.

Likewise, the U.S. can support Israel without agreeing with all Israeli policies--just like it supports lots of nations without agreeing with all their policies. And if Obama wants to make another push about the settlements I'm all for it.

I too object to Israel building on certain areas, but also understand it may be such efforts that actually compel the enemy to something other than vitriol and murder.

I would like to see the full document of the Presbyterian Church's censure of Israel--the first version I saw actually told Israel to take down the wall! That was just unbelievable. What world are they living in?

One of them Christian ones. Not that some Jews can't be irrational, but when it is one's own land one is being irrational about, I can half-way to completely understand.

Israel may need to change the location of parts of the wall, but that wall itself has been instrumental in preventing suicide bombers. Taking it down anytime soon would be sheer madness.

Sheer madness seems exactly what Israel's enemies demand.

[Jrosemary]

I hope you and I both get to go . . .

You're on! You and me, Joey: road trip Israel!

[cnorman18]

I hope you and I both get to go . . .

You're on! You and me, Joey: road trip Israel!

Hey, I'm in!

[Jrosemary]

I hope you and I both get to go . . .

You're on! You and me, Joey: road trip Israel!

Hey, I'm in!

Woot! Ok, guys, we've got some planning to do . . .

[JoeyKnothead]

I hope you and I both get to go . . .

You're on! You and me, Joey: road trip Israel!

I'll drive! Where do ya keep the wheel?

[DeBunkem]

On your apartheid groupie trip you might want to keep a copy of the Rabbi Rafey Abib's Prayer for Gaza to read. It will help you pass the time while you sit in bunkers hiding from all those deadly Palestinian rockets that the heroic Zionists are so traumatized by.

A Prayer for Gaza
Rafey Habib

I am Gaza.
I am the poem of Gaza.
The world does not see me:
A world which does
Nothing.

And you launchers of rockets, I ask you now:
Lay down your arms, your useless arms:
See what gifts from the enemy they bring:

They rain down terror from the air;
They burn our children’s faces;
They turn our schools to rubble;
They churn our homes to dust.
And the world does nothing.

So I beg you now, you launchers of rockets,
Lay down your arms: what have they brought in
Fifty years? Nothing. Your killing of civilians
Can bring nothing but shame. In taking
Life, innocent life, your blame
Will burn in the eyes of God.

The powers we face are incalculable. We
Cannot win by arms. We cannot even
Win with words; the powers we face
Are endless in resource; they control
What is known and what is not known.

They control a world
Which does nothing.

You launchers of rockets, you surely know:
They will answer your terror with their terror:
They will take more lives in ten days
Than you can take in ten years.
They will blacken your skies.

They will rain down terror from the air;
They will burn our children’s faces;
They will turn our schools to rubble;
They will churn our homes to dust.
And the world will do nothing.

Lay down your rockets, your home-made guns:
Or they will take more
And more of our land. They
Will not be merciful: their soldiers laugh as
Our women are slaughtered; their settlers
Take, take, take our villages and farms;
They are not the true Jews;
Who taunt our children and women
Who thirst in endless queues.
While the world does nothing.

Lay down your guns, your tired rockets.
Our foes will not be merciful; so you must
Show mercy. I do not ask you to forget,
Forget the suffering, still bleeding
Through our people. I ask that
You think of your children
And all children.

Let us sit down with our enemy.
Talk with him as though
He were our friend.
(One day we must remember: the Jews
Are our brothers, descended
From the same father Abraham.
The Jews are not our enemy, no
Matter what deeds are
Perpetrated in their name; the
True Jews of the world are friends; they
See your suffering, and they bleed
With you; they are ashamed
Of those who pretend to act in their name,
One day we must live with them as friends).

Let our enemy know that we will not
Strike again. Though his weapons are
Fearsome, he himself is full of godless fear;
Though his arms are strong, he knows he is weak.
He has a nuclear power beyond our
Dreams, but still he lives in fear.
He needs to know.

He has imprisoned us
Imprisoned himself
Within a wall: the symbol of his fear.
He needs to know.

Let us use a courage higher than your rockets,
Stronger than his tanks:
Let us tear down this wall; and all walls between us.
Let us sit down, and talk. And let us spread
This message through our people: no more
Violence, no more talk of wiping out
The enemy. It is not just violent acts which bring
His violent retribution, but violent words.
Let him know that he is safe.
Greet his fear with true courage:
The greatest courage is to know
One day we must live as friends.

I am Gaza, the poem of Gaza.
I am Muslim, Christian, Palestinian and Jew.
I am you.

Give the world’s eyes a chance to see:
To see who we really are.
To see the truth.

A world which
Does nothing.

[DeBunkem]

Thought I’d post a bit more from the site linked in DeBunkem’s post above. Readers may draw their own conclusions about the reliability of any “evidence� from this site, not to mention about DeBunkem’s characteristic sources.

…The 9-11 attacks were 100% a Mossad operation as the facts point directly to Mossad, it is absolutely undeniable that Israel attacked us in a do or die, all or nothing attack to bring the USA into attacking Muslim countries.

It is time for the truth to come out and the U. S. Military to do it’s [sic] job to wipe the true terrorist nation off the map forever. Most of the world knows Israel is the true axis of evil except for the brainwashed zombies and bribed politicians in America and Britain. Intelligent Americans who have done their own research instead of relying on the Jewish controlled media are the only ones who know the truth about blood sucking Israel.

Please notice that this writer is not advocating only the end of foreign aid to Israel. He explicitly advocates a military attack on Israel by the US with the intent of eliminating Israel's existence entirely - in other words, recruiting the resources of the US military to serve the murderous goals of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the Al-Aqsa Brigade, et. al.

I would agree that it’s always a good thing when the truth comes out, including blatant and vicious anti-Semitic hatred and bigotry. “Blood sucking Israel� and “Jewish-controlled media� are dead giveaways, not to mention the claim of Israeli involvement in 9-11 as an established and “undeniable� fact.

I don’t think any further comment is necessary. It isn’t my intention to enter the debate here, just provide relevant and factual information about sources.

If anyone bothered to check this they would discover what Grizz "failed" to mention: the comment he quotes does not originate with the wrmea.org, but with an anonymous poster ("Einstein") on their forum. Is Debating Christianity forum liable for all the knuckle-headed anti-Palestinian hate comments that spew from Apartheid groupies? I don't THINK so. This is the typical FOX-style "poison the well" tactics AKA classic KKKarl Rove.

[cnorman18]

On your apartheid groupie trip you might want to keep a copy of the Rabbi Rafey Abib's Prayer for Gaza to read. It will help you pass the time while you sit in bunkers hiding from all those deadly Palestinian rockets that the heroic Zionists are so traumatized by.

A Prayer for Gaza
Rafey Habib

I am Gaza.
I am the poem of Gaza.
The world does not see me:
A world which does
Nothing.

And you launchers of rockets, I ask you now:
Lay down your arms, your useless arms:
See what gifts from the enemy they bring:

They rain down terror from the air;
They burn our children’s faces;
They turn our schools to rubble;
They churn our homes to dust.
And the world does nothing.

So I beg you now, you launchers of rockets,
Lay down your arms: what have they brought in
Fifty years? Nothing. Your killing of civilians
Can bring nothing but shame. In taking
Life, innocent life, your blame
Will burn in the eyes of God.

The powers we face are incalculable. We
Cannot win by arms. We cannot even
Win with words; the powers we face
Are endless in resource; they control
What is known and what is not known.

They control a world
Which does nothing.

You launchers of rockets, you surely know:
They will answer your terror with their terror:
They will take more lives in ten days
Than you can take in ten years.
They will blacken your skies.

They will rain down terror from the air;
They will burn our children’s faces;
They will turn our schools to rubble;
They will churn our homes to dust.
And the world will do nothing.

Lay down your rockets, your home-made guns:
Or they will take more
And more of our land. They
Will not be merciful: their soldiers laugh as
Our women are slaughtered; their settlers
Take, take, take our villages and farms;
They are not the true Jews;
Who taunt our children and women
Who thirst in endless queues.
While the world does nothing.

Lay down your guns, your tired rockets.
Our foes will not be merciful; so you must
Show mercy. I do not ask you to forget,
Forget the suffering, still bleeding
Through our people. I ask that
You think of your children
And all children.

Let us sit down with our enemy.
Talk with him as though
He were our friend.
(One day we must remember: the Jews
Are our brothers, descended
From the same father Abraham.
The Jews are not our enemy, no
Matter what deeds are
Perpetrated in their name; the
True Jews of the world are friends; they
See your suffering, and they bleed
With you; they are ashamed
Of those who pretend to act in their name,
One day we must live with them as friends).

Let our enemy know that we will not
Strike again. Though his weapons are
Fearsome, he himself is full of godless fear;
Though his arms are strong, he knows he is weak.
He has a nuclear power beyond our
Dreams, but still he lives in fear.
He needs to know.

He has imprisoned us
Imprisoned himself
Within a wall: the symbol of his fear.
He needs to know.

Let us use a courage higher than your rockets,
Stronger than his tanks:
Let us tear down this wall; and all walls between us.
Let us sit down, and talk. And let us spread
This message through our people: no more
Violence, no more talk of wiping out
The enemy. It is not just violent acts which bring
His violent retribution, but violent words.
Let him know that he is safe.
Greet his fear with true courage:
The greatest courage is to know
One day we must live as friends.

I am Gaza, the poem of Gaza.
I am Muslim, Christian, Palestinian and Jew.
I am you.

Give the world’s eyes a chance to see:
To see who we really are.
To see the truth.

A world which
Does nothing.

I think the rabbi's poem is largely praiseworthy; he advocates nonviolence on the part of the Arab terrorists in order to stop the conflict. That is precisely the solution I have been advocating here for more than two years. Well said on the part of the rabbi, in spite of the insults that accompanied it.

[otseng]

This is the typical FOX-style "poison the well" tactics AKA classic KKKarl Rove.

Moderator comment:

This type of comment is not conducive for civil debate. Please avoid the unneeded rhetoric.

[WinePusher]

KKKarl Rove.

Was Rove in the KKK? Or was it the liberal Robert Byrd, who voted aganist civil rights.