The Tribe of Dan
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The Tribe of Dan
Post #1Why, of the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation 7: 4-8; of the 12,000 chosen from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, are there none from the tribe of Dan?
Re: The Tribe of Dan
Post #2Why?S-word wrote:Why, of the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation 7: 4-8; of the 12,000 chosen from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, are there none from the tribe of Dan?
Re: The Tribe of Dan
Post #3WHY?Benoni wrote:Why?S-word wrote:Why, of the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation 7: 4-8; of the 12,000 chosen from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, are there none from the tribe of Dan?
To explain in detail the reason why none of Dan’s descendants are recorded among the 144,000 chosen ones, would be much too long to be revealed in one post, so we will do it in a series of posts and you or any other persons may interject at any time.
Hushim, is said to be the son of Dan, but Hushim is a female who married the Benjamite named Shaharaim who divorced her before he moved to the land of Moab from where came the mother of David.
Where a daughter is the source of the tribe of her Father who had sired no sons, she is given the appellation (Ben). Hushim bore two sons to the Benjamite Shaharaim, whose names were Abitub and Elpaal (See 1st Chronicles 8: 11) who were also known as Huppim and Shuppim, and although both sons are in reality of the tribe of Benjamin, the tribe of Dan is counted from the descendants of Abitub, a Benjamite born of Hushim, who is the source of the tribe of Dan.
In 1ST Chronicles 7: 6--12, the tribe of Dan is counted among the tribe of Benjamin. The Benjamite King Saul, who is a descendant of Hushim’s other son Elpaal, stood a head taller than any other Israelite, and divine intervention was needed for the Danite ‘Manoah’ who had great difficulty siring children, to be able to sire the giant Samson, and although a great womanizer, Samson is not known to have had any children himself and was buried by his brethren. Dan the son of Bilhah the handmaid of Rachel was also referred to as a giant of a man.
Just as a point of interest, Reuben died at the age of 125, two years after the death of Joseph who died at the age of 110, making Joseph 13 years younger than Reuben, meaning that Reuben would have been 30 when Joseph, at the age of 17 was sold into slavery for the majestic price of 30 coins. In ‘The Testaments Of The Twelve Patriarchs,’ he speaks of the evil thing that he wrought before the Lord (The evil thing, being when he defiled his Fathers bed.
Reuben goes on to say that if he had not seen Bilhah bathing in a covered place and allowed the thought of her nakedness to take control of his mind, perhaps he might not have committed the abominable thing. For when they were in Eder, near to Ephrath in Bethlehem (That’s where Rachel died while giving birth to Benjamin) and while Jacob was away visiting his sick father Isaac, Bilhah, who had become drunk after a harvest festival was asleep uncovered in her tent. Having therefore gone in and beheld her nakedness, Reuben wrought the great impiety without Bilhah perceiving it, and leaving her sleeping he departed. Bilhah did not know that she had been raped, and Reuben was definitely not going to tell anyone of his evil act and yet Jacob found out. HOW?
Sometime after the return of Jacob, Rachel the love of his life, died while giving birth to Benjamin. Concerning the birth of Benjamin, we read in the Last Testament of Benjamin to his sons, Chapter 1: verse 3, “And since Rachel my mother died in giving me birth, I had no milk, therefore I was suckled by Bilhah her handmaid,� (who was the mother of Dan and who had been raped by Reuben of the blessing of firstborn). According to the bible, the last known child that was born to Bilhah was Naphtali, the younger brother of Dan some 14 to 16 years previously.
Re: The Tribe of Dan
Post #4Why is it you use sciripture here with ease; but in Physical pain in Hell you refuse to give any arguement with scripture?S-word wrote:WHY?Benoni wrote:Why?S-word wrote:Why, of the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation 7: 4-8; of the 12,000 chosen from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, are there none from the tribe of Dan?
To explain in detail the reason why none of Dan’s descendants are recorded among the 144,000 chosen ones, would be much too long to be revealed in one post, so we will do it in a series of posts and you or any other persons may interject at any time.
Hushim, is said to be the son of Dan, but Hushim is a female who married the Benjamite named Shaharaim who divorced her before he moved to the land of Moab from where came the mother of David.
Where a daughter is the source of the tribe of her Father who had sired no sons, she is given the appellation (Ben). Hushim bore two sons to the Benjamite Shaharaim, whose names were Abitub and Elpaal (See 1st Chronicles 8: 11) who were also known as Huppim and Shuppim, and although both sons are in reality of the tribe of Benjamin, the tribe of Dan is counted from the descendants of Abitub, a Benjamite born of Hushim, who is the source of the tribe of Dan.
In 1ST Chronicles 7: 6--12, the tribe of Dan is counted among the tribe of Benjamin. The Benjamite King Saul, who is a descendant of Hushim’s other son Elpaal, stood a head taller than any other Israelite, and divine intervention was needed for the Danite ‘Manoah’ who had great difficulty siring children, to be able to sire the giant Samson, and although a great womanizer, Samson is not known to have had any children himself and was buried by his brethren. Dan the son of Bilhah the handmaid of Rachel was also referred to as a giant of a man.
Just as a point of interest, Reuben died at the age of 125, two years after the death of Joseph who died at the age of 110, making Joseph 13 years younger than Reuben, meaning that Reuben would have been 30 when Joseph, at the age of 17 was sold into slavery for the majestic price of 30 coins. In ‘The Testaments Of The Twelve Patriarchs,’ he speaks of the evil thing that he wrought before the Lord (The evil thing, being when he defiled his Fathers bed.
Reuben goes on to say that if he had not seen Bilhah bathing in a covered place and allowed the thought of her nakedness to take control of his mind, perhaps he might not have committed the abominable thing. For when they were in Eder, near to Ephrath in Bethlehem (That’s where Rachel died while giving birth to Benjamin) and while Jacob was away visiting his sick father Isaac, Bilhah, who had become drunk after a harvest festival was asleep uncovered in her tent. Having therefore gone in and beheld her nakedness, Reuben wrought the great impiety without Bilhah perceiving it, and leaving her sleeping he departed. Bilhah did not know that she had been raped, and Reuben was definitely not going to tell anyone of his evil act and yet Jacob found out. HOW?
Sometime after the return of Jacob, Rachel the love of his life, died while giving birth to Benjamin. Concerning the birth of Benjamin, we read in the Last Testament of Benjamin to his sons, Chapter 1: verse 3, “And since Rachel my mother died in giving me birth, I had no milk, therefore I was suckled by Bilhah her handmaid,� (who was the mother of Dan and who had been raped by Reuben of the blessing of firstborn). According to the bible, the last known child that was born to Bilhah was Naphtali, the younger brother of Dan some 14 to 16 years previously.
Re: The Tribe of Dan
Post #5Do you wish to debate why, of the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation 7: 4-8; of the 12,000 chosen from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, are there none from the tribe of Dan? Or do you want to whine about what is happening in another thread, where I have used scripture in the context for which it was meant, to combat fallacious interpretations of God’s word made by the use of scripture that is taken out of all context to which those scriptures were meant to convey?Benoni wrote:Why is it you use sciripture here with ease; but in Physical pain in Hell you refuse to give any arguement with scripture?S-word wrote:WHY?Benoni wrote:Why?S-word wrote:Why, of the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation 7: 4-8; of the 12,000 chosen from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, are there none from the tribe of Dan?
To explain in detail the reason why none of Dan’s descendants are recorded among the 144,000 chosen ones, would be much too long to be revealed in one post, so we will do it in a series of posts and you or any other persons may interject at any time.
Hushim, is said to be the son of Dan, but Hushim is a female who married the Benjamite named Shaharaim who divorced her before he moved to the land of Moab from where came the mother of David.
Where a daughter is the source of the tribe of her Father who had sired no sons, she is given the appellation (Ben). Hushim bore two sons to the Benjamite Shaharaim, whose names were Abitub and Elpaal (See 1st Chronicles 8: 11) who were also known as Huppim and Shuppim, and although both sons are in reality of the tribe of Benjamin, the tribe of Dan is counted from the descendants of Abitub, a Benjamite born of Hushim, who is the source of the tribe of Dan.
In 1ST Chronicles 7: 6--12, the tribe of Dan is counted among the tribe of Benjamin. The Benjamite King Saul, who is a descendant of Hushim’s other son Elpaal, stood a head taller than any other Israelite, and divine intervention was needed for the Danite ‘Manoah’ who had great difficulty siring children, to be able to sire the giant Samson, and although a great womanizer, Samson is not known to have had any children himself and was buried by his brethren. Dan the son of Bilhah the handmaid of Rachel was also referred to as a giant of a man.
Just as a point of interest, Reuben died at the age of 125, two years after the death of Joseph who died at the age of 110, making Joseph 13 years younger than Reuben, meaning that Reuben would have been 30 when Joseph, at the age of 17 was sold into slavery for the majestic price of 30 coins. In ‘The Testaments Of The Twelve Patriarchs,’ he speaks of the evil thing that he wrought before the Lord (The evil thing, being when he defiled his Fathers bed.
Reuben goes on to say that if he had not seen Bilhah bathing in a covered place and allowed the thought of her nakedness to take control of his mind, perhaps he might not have committed the abominable thing. For when they were in Eder, near to Ephrath in Bethlehem (That’s where Rachel died while giving birth to Benjamin) and while Jacob was away visiting his sick father Isaac, Bilhah, who had become drunk after a harvest festival was asleep uncovered in her tent. Having therefore gone in and beheld her nakedness, Reuben wrought the great impiety without Bilhah perceiving it, and leaving her sleeping he departed. Bilhah did not know that she had been raped, and Reuben was definitely not going to tell anyone of his evil act and yet Jacob found out. HOW?
Sometime after the return of Jacob, Rachel the love of his life, died while giving birth to Benjamin. Concerning the birth of Benjamin, we read in the Last Testament of Benjamin to his sons, Chapter 1: verse 3, “And since Rachel my mother died in giving me birth, I had no milk, therefore I was suckled by Bilhah her handmaid,� (who was the mother of Dan and who had been raped by Reuben of the blessing of firstborn). According to the bible, the last known child that was born to Bilhah was Naphtali, the younger brother of Dan some 14 to 16 years previously.
Re: The Tribe of Dan
Post #6S-word wrote:Benoni wrote:I was hoping that someone who reads this thread would pick up on some of the apparent errors that are contained within, but it would seem that the readers have little knowledge of the Bible, and those apparent errors go right over their heads. One such apparent error which seems to contradict the Bible is seen where it was stated above, that Joseph was sold for thirty coins, whereas the bible says that it was twenty.S-word wrote:WHY?Benoni wrote:Why?S-word wrote:Why, of the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation 7: 4-8; of the 12,000 chosen from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, are there none from the tribe of Dan?
To explain in detail the reason why none of Dan’s descendants are recorded among the 144,000 chosen ones, would be much too long to be revealed in one post, so we will do it in a series of posts and you or any other persons may interject at any time.
Hushim, is said to be the son of Dan, but Hushim is a female who married the Benjamite named Shaharaim who divorced her before he moved to the land of Moab from where came the mother of David.
Where a daughter is the source of the tribe of her Father who had sired no sons, she is given the appellation (Ben). Hushim bore two sons to the Benjamite Shaharaim, whose names were Abitub and Elpaal (See 1st Chronicles 8: 11) who were also known as Huppim and Shuppim, and although both sons are in reality of the tribe of Benjamin, the tribe of Dan is counted from the descendants of Abitub, a Benjamite born of Hushim, who is the source of the tribe of Dan.
In 1ST Chronicles 7: 6--12, the tribe of Dan is counted among the tribe of Benjamin. The Benjamite King Saul, who is a descendant of Hushim’s other son Elpaal, stood a head taller than any other Israelite, and divine intervention was needed for the Danite ‘Manoah’ who had great difficulty siring children, to be able to sire the giant Samson, and although a great womanizer, Samson is not known to have had any children himself and was buried by his brethren. Dan the son of Bilhah the handmaid of Rachel was also referred to as a giant of a man.
Just as a point of interest, Reuben died at the age of 125, two years after the death of Joseph who died at the age of 110, making Joseph 13 years younger than Reuben, meaning that Reuben would have been 30 when Joseph, at the age of 17 was sold into slavery for the majestic price of 30 coins. In ‘The Testaments Of The Twelve Patriarchs,’ he speaks of the evil thing that he wrought before the Lord (The evil thing, being when he defiled his Fathers bed.
Reuben goes on to say that if he had not seen Bilhah bathing in a covered place and allowed the thought of her nakedness to take control of his mind, perhaps he might not have committed the abominable thing. For when they were in Eder, near to Ephrath in Bethlehem (That’s where Rachel died while giving birth to Benjamin) and while Jacob was away visiting his sick father Isaac, Bilhah, who had become drunk after a harvest festival was asleep uncovered in her tent. Having therefore gone in and beheld her nakedness, Reuben wrought the great impiety without Bilhah perceiving it, and leaving her sleeping he departed. Bilhah did not know that she had been raped, and Reuben was definitely not going to tell anyone of his evil act and yet Jacob found out. HOW?
Sometime after the return of Jacob, Rachel the love of his life, died while giving birth to Benjamin. Concerning the birth of Benjamin, we read in the Last Testament of Benjamin to his sons, Chapter 1: verse 3, “And since Rachel my mother died in giving me birth, I had no milk, therefore I was suckled by Bilhah her handmaid,� (who was the mother of Dan and who had been raped by Reuben of the blessing of firstborn). According to the bible, the last known child that was born to Bilhah was Naphtali, the younger brother of Dan some 14 to 16 years previously.
Gen 37: 28, states that Joseph, a prototype of Jesus was sold for twenty pieces of silver, whereas it is said in the Last Testament of the patriarchs that only two of the brothers had made the actual sale of Joseph, and that they received 30 coins for the sale. This was after they had thrown him into an old dry well that had been dug by Abraham and had left him in the bowels of the earth for three days and three nights. And it is said in the pseudipegrapha, that they had hid 10 pieces for themselves. And with the twenty remainin coins, 8 of the brothers all bought new sandals, it was from here that the Israelite custom arose, that whenever a price for a sale had been agreed upon, the seller would remove his old sandal.
If indeed, Rachel had been barren for 12 years since she birthed Joseph, then the infant Benjamin would have been 4 or 5 years old when Reuben was thirty and must have seen his brother Joseph before he was sold into slavery at the age of 17, and that the image of Joseph was hidden somewhere deep in his subconscious memory, and was risen to the surface by some hypnotic suggestion by his father, seems to be intimated in Benjamin’s statement where he says, “ when Joseph was in Egypt, I longed to see his figure and the form of his countenance; and through the prayers of my father Jacob I saw him, while awake in the daytime, even his entire figure exactly as he was (Past tense).
Although Dan was actually the fifth son sired by Jacob, because Leah who had already given birth to four sons, was Jacobs only true wife and had bore to him another two sons after the birth of Dan the first born Son of Bilah, they were placed ahead of any children born of his #2 wife and his two concubines and placed before them in the line of blessings, and Dan the fifth born son of Jacob, received the seventh blessing from his dying father as well as the seventh allotment of land in the promised kingdom of Canaan, and is the seventh in the book of the Last Testaments of the twelve Patriarchs.
But it was in fact his sister Dinah who was the seventh born child of Leah the wife of Jacob, and she was born on the seventh day of the seventh month, the twin sister to Zebulun the 10TH child sired by Jacob. It was in the territory that had been originally allocated to Zebulun that the towns of northern Bethlehem, which is today called “Beitlahm,� Nazareth, and Sepphoris, were situated in the days of Jesus. Although Isaiah in chapter 6, seems to merge the land of Naphtali the youngest son of Bilah with the land of Zebulun the twin of Dinah the seventh born child of Jacob’s wife ‘Leah’, “The land of the tribes of Zebulun and Naphtali was once disgraced, but the future will bring honour to this region---- they lived in the land of shadows, but now light is shinning on them--- A child is born to us! A son is given to us! And he will be our ruler. He will be called, “Wonderful Counselor.� “Mighty God.� �Eternal Father.� “Prince of Peace,� etc.
Thirty odd years after the Israelites had secured their position in the land of Canaan, Dan was still unable to remove the original inhabitants from the land that had been allocated to them and they were forced to live with their brother tribe Benjamin. At that time Phinehas was in charge of the covenant box at Bethel, (See Judges 20: 28.) and Phinehas, the grandson of Aaron was he, who had driven a spear through the bodies of Zimri and Cosbi while they were having sex in a tent, just after Israel had captured the territories of Sihon and Og on their way to Jericho, and Jonathan the grandson of Moses at that same time, was the priest of Micah whose mother had given him a silver idol possibly of an eagle (The Roman standard) as he lived in the mountainous country where the eagle is given much prominence.
Jonathan’s concubine had run away, back to her parents in Bethlehem and when returning with Jonathan she was raped and sodomised to death by some no good men in Gibeah, a city that was in the land originally allocated to Benjamin and was later to be given to Phinehas, in the land which was later claimed by the tribe of Ephraim after the destruction of Benjamin,
(See Joshua 24: 33, ) ‘Eleazar son of Aaron died and was buried at Gibeah, the town in the hill country of Ephraim which was given to his son Phinehas.’ ---
The body of Jonathan’s concubine was cut into pieces and sent to all the tribes in Israel who all vowed to never allow their daughters to marry a member of the tribe of Benjamin. It is said in Judges 18: 1-2, that the tribe of Dan had not yet received any land of their own among the tribes of Israel and for this reason they sent five men to search for a land that they could occupy. Although the tribe of Dan had received the seventh allotment of land in Canaan which southern most town was Ekron stretching north to Gath-Rimmon in the open flat coastal country and eastward to the mountainous country of Benjamin, the Danites could not remove the original inhabitants and were forced to live among their brother tribe Benjamin. And yet in Joshua 19: 47, it is said that when the people of Dan lost their land, they went to Laish and attacked it.
They lost the land that they lived in when the tribe of Benjamin was destroyed. It is said in Deuteronomy 34, that Moses stood on top of Mt Pisgah and saw the whole land as far north as the town of Dan. Moses may have seen as far north as the town of Laish, which the tribe of Dan would attack in futures years, but he did not see the town of Dan as it did not exist at that time. Such is the case when the 11 tribes of Israel (Joseph being divided into the two tribes of Manasseh and Ephraim) decided to attack Benjamin; they came from as far as the southern border of the territory that Dan in the future would occupy.
To cut a long story short, which you can yourself read in Judges 19, 20 and 21, every man woman and child in the land of Benjamin were butchered, after the two brother tribes, who were ignorant of the trap that had been set for them, had leapt the wall in the pursuit of the retreating Israelites. All were slaughtered except for 600 fighting men from the tribe of Dan who took refuge in the OPEN country at the rock of Rimmon, Gathrimmon is the northern most city in the flat open coastal territory that had been allocated to Dan.
All the women of the tribe of Benjamin apart from those who had married into the other tribes of Israel, from which the pseudo tribe would later be formed, had been slaughtered, see Judges 20: 47, and Chpt 21. Not wanting to lose the tribe, but having made a solemn vow before God that no Israelite would allow his daughter to marry a man from the tribe of Benjamin, the Israelites had all the inhabitants in the town of Jabesh murdered except for four hundred virgins (Descendants of Dinah the 7th born child of Leah, who had been raped by Shechem).
But being two hundred women short, the descendants of Shaharaim the Benjamite, were told to abduct 200 of the virgins who would be dancing at the festival in Shiloh, this way they were not breaking their vow as they had not given the virgins, (Bethulah not Almah) to the men who took those girls by force as with the four hundred other virgins, and that’s RAPE in any man’s language. Later those 600 Danites, ‘with their wives, their children and all their belongings’ moved north and after taking Jonathan as their priest and stealing the idols of Micah they entered the town of Laish and murdered all the peaceful inhabitants, See Judges 18: 21. They never did return and neither did any other Danites who had intermarried into the other tribes of Israel from which Samson was later born, travel north to join them.
Much of the book of judges as with other parts of scripture are not set out in chronological order and Jephthah who judged Israel 31 years before Samson, went to war against the King of Ammon, who tried to reclaim the land that had been conquered by the Israelites some three hundred years earlier, see Judges 11: 26, Jonathan the grandson of Moses and Phinehas the grandson of Aaron, who were there when Israel conquered the territory that the king of Ammon was attempting to reclaim 300 years later, and who were two of the principle characters in the story of the death of the tribe of Benjamin and the 600 Danite survivors of that great slaughter, were long dead before Samson the Danite judged Israel.
The Danites were to later move to the coast of Sidon, (Sidon was the firstborn son of Canaan who was cursed by Noah) and in the ships of Dan they became seafaring merchants who traveled to other lands across the Mediterranean. Dan in his last Testament, prophesied to the members of his tribe saying, that they would forget their God, and would be alienated from the land of their inheritance and from the race of Israel, and from the family of their seed (Benjamin). TO BE CONTINUED.
Re: The Tribe of Dan
Post #7S-word wrote:S-word wrote:last testament of the patriarchs. Really?? You place that on the same level as the bible in historically reliability? The bible is without any competition the best documented book of the ancient world. We have thousands of fragments, and even a few complete collections. All testifying to the old age of the bible, and the fact that is remains largely unchanged through the ages.Benoni wrote:I was hoping that someone who reads this thread would pick up on some of the apparent errors that are contained within, but it would seem that the readers have little knowledge of the Bible, and those apparent errors go right over their heads. One such apparent error which seems to contradict the Bible is seen where it was stated above, that Joseph was sold for thirty coins, whereas the bible says that it was twenty.S-word wrote:WHY?Benoni wrote:Why?S-word wrote:Why, of the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation 7: 4-8; of the 12,000 chosen from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, are there none from the tribe of Dan?
To explain in detail the reason why none of Dan’s descendants are recorded among the 144,000 chosen ones, would be much too long to be revealed in one post, so we will do it in a series of posts and you or any other persons may interject at any time.
Hushim, is said to be the son of Dan, but Hushim is a female who married the Benjamite named Shaharaim who divorced her before he moved to the land of Moab from where came the mother of David.
Where a daughter is the source of the tribe of her Father who had sired no sons, she is given the appellation (Ben). Hushim bore two sons to the Benjamite Shaharaim, whose names were Abitub and Elpaal (See 1st Chronicles 8: 11) who were also known as Huppim and Shuppim, and although both sons are in reality of the tribe of Benjamin, the tribe of Dan is counted from the descendants of Abitub, a Benjamite born of Hushim, who is the source of the tribe of Dan.
In 1ST Chronicles 7: 6--12, the tribe of Dan is counted among the tribe of Benjamin. The Benjamite King Saul, who is a descendant of Hushim’s other son Elpaal, stood a head taller than any other Israelite, and divine intervention was needed for the Danite ‘Manoah’ who had great difficulty siring children, to be able to sire the giant Samson, and although a great womanizer, Samson is not known to have had any children himself and was buried by his brethren. Dan the son of Bilhah the handmaid of Rachel was also referred to as a giant of a man.
Just as a point of interest, Reuben died at the age of 125, two years after the death of Joseph who died at the age of 110, making Joseph 13 years younger than Reuben, meaning that Reuben would have been 30 when Joseph, at the age of 17 was sold into slavery for the majestic price of 30 coins. In ‘The Testaments Of The Twelve Patriarchs,’ he speaks of the evil thing that he wrought before the Lord (The evil thing, being when he defiled his Fathers bed.
Reuben goes on to say that if he had not seen Bilhah bathing in a covered place and allowed the thought of her nakedness to take control of his mind, perhaps he might not have committed the abominable thing. For when they were in Eder, near to Ephrath in Bethlehem (That’s where Rachel died while giving birth to Benjamin) and while Jacob was away visiting his sick father Isaac, Bilhah, who had become drunk after a harvest festival was asleep uncovered in her tent. Having therefore gone in and beheld her nakedness, Reuben wrought the great impiety without Bilhah perceiving it, and leaving her sleeping he departed. Bilhah did not know that she had been raped, and Reuben was definitely not going to tell anyone of his evil act and yet Jacob found out. HOW?
Sometime after the return of Jacob, Rachel the love of his life, died while giving birth to Benjamin. Concerning the birth of Benjamin, we read in the Last Testament of Benjamin to his sons, Chapter 1: verse 3, “And since Rachel my mother died in giving me birth, I had no milk, therefore I was suckled by Bilhah her handmaid,� (who was the mother of Dan and who had been raped by Reuben of the blessing of firstborn). According to the bible, the last known child that was born to Bilhah was Naphtali, the younger brother of Dan some 14 to 16 years previously.
Gen 37: 28, states that Joseph, a prototype of Jesus was sold for twenty pieces of silver, whereas it is said in the Last Testament of the patriarchs that only two of the brothers had made the actual sale of Joseph, and that they received 30 coins for the sale. This was after they had thrown him into an old dry well that had been dug by Abraham and had left him in the bowels of the earth for three days and three nights. And it is said in the pseudipegrapha, that they had hid 10 pieces for themselves. And with the twenty remainin coins, 8 of the brothers all bought new sandals, it was from here that the Israelite custom arose, that whenever a price for a sale had been agreed upon, the seller would remove his old sandal.
If indeed, Rachel had been barren for 12 years since she birthed Joseph, then the infant Benjamin would have been 4 or 5 years old when Reuben was thirty and must have seen his brother Joseph before he was sold into slavery at the age of 17, and that the image of Joseph was hidden somewhere deep in his subconscious memory, and was risen to the surface by some hypnotic suggestion by his father, seems to be intimated in Benjamin’s statement where he says, “ when Joseph was in Egypt, I longed to see his figure and the form of his countenance; and through the prayers of my father Jacob I saw him, while awake in the daytime, even his entire figure exactly as he was (Past tense).
Although Dan was actually the fifth son sired by Jacob, because Leah who had already given birth to four sons, was Jacobs only true wife and had bore to him another two sons after the birth of Dan the first born Son of Bilah, they were placed ahead of any children born of his #2 wife and his two concubines and placed before them in the line of blessings, and Dan the fifth born son of Jacob, received the seventh blessing from his dying father as well as the seventh allotment of land in the promised kingdom of Canaan, and is the seventh in the book of the Last Testaments of the twelve Patriarchs.
But it was in fact his sister Dinah who was the seventh born child of Leah the wife of Jacob, and she was born on the seventh day of the seventh month, the twin sister to Zebulun the 10TH child sired by Jacob. It was in the territory that had been originally allocated to Zebulun that the towns of northern Bethlehem, which is today called “Beitlahm,� Nazareth, and Sepphoris, were situated in the days of Jesus. Although Isaiah in chapter 6, seems to merge the land of Naphtali the youngest son of Bilah with the land of Zebulun the twin of Dinah the seventh born child of Jacob’s wife ‘Leah’, “The land of the tribes of Zebulun and Naphtali was once disgraced, but the future will bring honour to this region---- they lived in the land of shadows, but now light is shinning on them--- A child is born to us! A son is given to us! And he will be our ruler. He will be called, “Wonderful Counselor.� “Mighty God.� �Eternal Father.� “Prince of Peace,� etc.
Thirty odd years after the Israelites had secured their position in the land of Canaan, Dan was still unable to remove the original inhabitants from the land that had been allocated to them and they were forced to live with their brother tribe Benjamin. At that time Phinehas was in charge of the covenant box at Bethel, (See Judges 20: 28.) and Phinehas, the grandson of Aaron was he, who had driven a spear through the bodies of Zimri and Cosbi while they were having sex in a tent, just after Israel had captured the territories of Sihon and Og on their way to Jericho, and Jonathan the grandson of Moses at that same time, was the priest of Micah whose mother had given him a silver idol possibly of an eagle (The Roman standard) as he lived in the mountainous country where the eagle is given much prominence.
Jonathan’s concubine had run away, back to her parents in Bethlehem and when returning with Jonathan she was raped and sodomised to death by some no good men in Gibeah, a city that was in the land originally allocated to Benjamin and was later to be given to Phinehas, in the land which was later claimed by the tribe of Ephraim after the destruction of Benjamin,
(See Joshua 24: 33, ) ‘Eleazar son of Aaron died and was buried at Gibeah, the town in the hill country of Ephraim which was given to his son Phinehas.’ ---
The body of Jonathan’s concubine was cut into pieces and sent to all the tribes in Israel who all vowed to never allow their daughters to marry a member of the tribe of Benjamin. It is said in Judges 18: 1-2, that the tribe of Dan had not yet received any land of their own among the tribes of Israel and for this reason they sent five men to search for a land that they could occupy. Although the tribe of Dan had received the seventh allotment of land in Canaan which southern most town was Ekron stretching north to Gath-Rimmon in the open flat coastal country and eastward to the mountainous country of Benjamin, the Danites could not remove the original inhabitants and were forced to live among their brother tribe Benjamin. And yet in Joshua 19: 47, it is said that when the people of Dan lost their land, they went to Laish and attacked it.
They lost the land that they lived in when the tribe of Benjamin was destroyed. It is said in Deuteronomy 34, that Moses stood on top of Mt Pisgah and saw the whole land as far north as the town of Dan. Moses may have seen as far north as the town of Laish, which the tribe of Dan would attack in futures years, but he did not see the town of Dan as it did not exist at that time. Such is the case when the 11 tribes of Israel (Joseph being divided into the two tribes of Manasseh and Ephraim) decided to attack Benjamin; they came from as far as the southern border of the territory that Dan in the future would occupy.
To cut a long story short, which you can yourself read in Judges 19, 20 and 21, every man woman and child in the land of Benjamin were butchered, after the two brother tribes, who were ignorant of the trap that had been set for them, had leapt the wall in the pursuit of the retreating Israelites. All were slaughtered except for 600 fighting men from the tribe of Dan who took refuge in the OPEN country at the rock of Rimmon, Gathrimmon is the northern most city in the flat open coastal territory that had been allocated to Dan.
All the women of the tribe of Benjamin apart from those who had married into the other tribes of Israel, from which the pseudo tribe would later be formed, had been slaughtered, see Judges 20: 47, and Chpt 21. Not wanting to lose the tribe, but having made a solemn vow before God that no Israelite would allow his daughter to marry a man from the tribe of Benjamin, the Israelites had all the inhabitants in the town of Jabesh murdered except for four hundred virgins (Descendants of Dinah the 7th born child of Leah, who had been raped by Shechem).
But being two hundred women short, the descendants of Shaharaim the Benjamite, were told to abduct 200 of the virgins who would be dancing at the festival in Shiloh, this way they were not breaking their vow as they had not given the virgins, (Bethulah not Almah) to the men who took those girls by force as with the four hundred other virgins, and that’s RAPE in any man’s language. Later those 600 Danites, ‘with their wives, their children and all their belongings’ moved north and after taking Jonathan as their priest and stealing the idols of Micah they entered the town of Laish and murdered all the peaceful inhabitants, See Judges 18: 21. They never did return and neither did any other Danites who had intermarried into the other tribes of Israel from which Samson was later born, travel north to join them.
Much of the book of judges as with other parts of scripture are not set out in chronological order and Jephthah who judged Israel 31 years before Samson, went to war against the King of Ammon, who tried to reclaim the land that had been conquered by the Israelites some three hundred years earlier, see Judges 11: 26, Jonathan the grandson of Moses and Phinehas the grandson of Aaron, who were there when Israel conquered the territory that the king of Ammon was attempting to reclaim 300 years later, and who were two of the principle characters in the story of the death of the tribe of Benjamin and the 600 Danite survivors of that great slaughter, were long dead before Samson the Danite judged Israel.
The Danites were to later move to the coast of Sidon, (Sidon was the firstborn son of Canaan who was cursed by Noah) and in the ships of Dan they became seafaring merchants who traveled to other lands across the Mediterranean. Dan in his last Testament, prophesied to the members of his tribe saying, that they would forget their God, and would be alienated from the land of their inheritance and from the race of Israel, and from the family of their seed (Benjamin). TO BE CONTINUED.
Have you read this comment: http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/testtwelve.html
I am not sure which version you have, but the common version was altered in the second century to fit christianity better. It is historically unreliable as we know it has been meddled with
Re: The Tribe of Dan
Post #8bareslehm wrote:S-word wrote:S-word wrote:Benoni wrote:S-word wrote:Tell me friend bareslehm, in the Old Testament, Moses gave to Aaron, the regulation, whereby he would place his hand upon the head of a scapegoat, symbolicly transferring the sins of Israel onto the goat, which was then sent out into the wilderness, to Azazel: who is Azazel? and where did Moses get this teaching? I will tell you now, you will not find the answer in your Bible, just as you will not find there, from where the Israelite custom arose, whereby they would remove their old sandal when the price of a sale was agreed upon.Benoni wrote:S-word wrote:Why, of the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation 7: 4-8; of the 12,000 chosen from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, are there none from the tribe of Dan?
last testament of the patriarchs. Really?? You place that on the same level as the bible in historically reliability? The bible is without any competition the best documented book of the ancient world. We have thousands of fragments, and even a few complete collections. All testifying to the old age of the bible, and the fact that is remains largely unchanged through the ages.
Have you read this comment: http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/testtwelve.html
I am not sure which version you have, but the common version was altered in the second century to fit christianity better. It is historically unreliable as we know it has been meddled with
Re: The Tribe of Dan
Post #9S-word wrote:bareslehm wrote:S-word wrote:S-word wrote:Benoni wrote:I know the practice as you describe it, but not of its origin, if you mean that other people living around israel already had such a practice. I would be interested in your answer. But there are many things described in the bible for which we are not told the origins. I dont see that as a problem, as it is to me just proof of the bibles reliability. Why would someone 4000 years ago bother do describe something that probably was common knowledge at that time, but now so many years later much of this context knowledge has been lost, or is difficult accessibleS-word wrote:Tell me friend bareslehm, in the Old Testament, Moses gave to Aaron, the regulation, whereby he would place his hand upon the head of a scapegoat, symbolicly transferring the sins of Israel onto the goat, which was then sent out into the wilderness, to Azazel: who is Azazel? and where did Moses get this teaching? I will tell you now, you will not find the answer in your Bible, just as you will not find there, from where the Israelite custom arose, whereby they would remove their old sandal when the price of a sale was agreed upon.Benoni wrote:S-word wrote:Why, of the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation 7: 4-8; of the 12,000 chosen from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, are there none from the tribe of Dan?
last testament of the patriarchs. Really?? You place that on the same level as the bible in historically reliability? The bible is without any competition the best documented book of the ancient world. We have thousands of fragments, and even a few complete collections. All testifying to the old age of the bible, and the fact that is remains largely unchanged through the ages.
Have you read this comment: http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/testtwelve.html
I am not sure which version you have, but the common version was altered in the second century to fit christianity better. It is historically unreliable as we know it has been meddled with
Re: The Tribe of Dan
Post #10bareslehm wrote:S-word wrote:bareslehm wrote:S-word wrote:S-word wrote:Who descended from heaven? ……….. The only man to have ascended to heaven, where he was placed before the throne of the Most High, which was surrounded by glorious creatures who served the Lord, was the 365 year old Enoch. (The sacrificial Lamb of God was to be a 365 day old or one year old unblemished lamb) “The Book of the Secrets of Enoch� 22: 8; “And I fell prone and bowed down to the Lord, and the Lord with his lips said to me: ‘Have courage, Enoch, do not fear, arise and stand before my face into eternity.’Benoni wrote:I know the practice as you describe it, but not of its origin, if you mean that other people living around israel already had such a practice. I would be interested in your answer. But there are many things described in the bible for which we are not told the origins. I dont see that as a problem, as it is to me just proof of the bibles reliability. Why would someone 4000 years ago bother do describe something that probably was common knowledge at that time, but now so many years later much of this context knowledge has been lost, or is difficult accessibleS-word wrote:Tell me friend bareslehm, in the Old Testament, Moses gave to Aaron, the regulation, whereby he would place his hand upon the head of a scapegoat, symbolicly transferring the sins of Israel onto the goat, which was then sent out into the wilderness, to Azazel: who is Azazel? and where did Moses get this teaching? I will tell you now, you will not find the answer in your Bible, just as you will not find there, from where the Israelite custom arose, whereby they would remove their old sandal when the price of a sale was agreed upon.Benoni wrote:S-word wrote:Why, of the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation 7: 4-8; of the 12,000 chosen from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, are there none from the tribe of Dan?
last testament of the patriarchs. Really?? You place that on the same level as the bible in historically reliability? The bible is without any competition the best documented book of the ancient world. We have thousands of fragments, and even a few complete collections. All testifying to the old age of the bible, and the fact that is remains largely unchanged through the ages.
Have you read this comment: http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/testtwelve.html
I am not sure which version you have, but the common version was altered in the second century to fit christianity better. It is historically unreliable as we know it has been meddled with
And the archistratiege Michael lifted me up, and led me before the Lord’s face.
And the Lord said to his servants tempting them: ‘Let Enoch stand before my face into eternity,’ and the glorious ones bowed down to the Lord, and said: ‘Let Enoch go according to Thy word.’
And the Lord said to Michael: ‘Go take Enoch from out his earthly garments, and anoint him with my sweet ointment, and put him into the garments of my glory.’
And Michael did thus as the Lord told him. He anointed me, and dressed me, and the appearance of that ointment is more than the great light, and his ointment is like sweet dew, and its smell mild, shining like the suns rays, and I looked at myself, and was like one of his glorious ones. Clothed and girded in fire, Enoch was chosen to serve God before the body of Adam/Mankind, into all eternity.
Thought to be lost for millennia after being banned by such early Christian authorities as Jerome, Hilary and Augustine because of its popularity with the early Christians, The Book of Enoch the Prophet, remains one of the oldest extant mystical documents. It’s referred to in the Zobar and the Epistle of Jude who is the brother of James, the first to sit on the Episcopal throne of the church of the circumcision in Jerusalem, who quotes verbatim from the book, which is known to have been in circulation for two centuries before Jesus, and was cherished by the Greek speaking Jews in Galilee and Asia Minor in the centuries following, until it was banned by the builders of the house of dominion: the universal/catholic church that was established in 325 AD, by the theologically illiterate and non-christian King Constantine, which church was based on the false and deceptive teaching, that Jesus was conceived of a virgin, and who rejected the foundation stone of all Scripture, which has turned out to be the most important of all. The words of righteous Enoch are quoted in the book of the Testament of the Patriarchs, who all died in Egypt.
Moses was a prince of Egypt, and would have been schooled by the greatest minds in the land and after the Israelites were expelled from Egypt, Moses removed the leaven from God’s holy words and gave to Israel “the chosen servant of God,� the unleavened loaf, and Moses gave to his brother Aaron the regulation whereby he would choose a scape-goat, and placing his hand upon its head he would transfer the sins of Israel onto the goat, which was then sent out into wilderness to Azazel, who was one of the Sons of God who descended in the days of the giant Enoch’s physical Father Jared. The Name “Jared� means “Decending,’ and it was in the days of “Descending,� or Jared, before the birth of Enoch the giant, that the sons of God defiled themselves with the daughters of men by possessing the bodies of the men while they were with their wives, and from there were able to pass on their issue and giants were born in the earth. According to ancient Jewish tradition, Noah was also born a giant.
Azazel was one of those watchers/observers who came down, and it was he who taught mankind all about metallurgy and the making of swords, knives, shields and breastplates, and bracelets and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tinctures Etc. Tubal-Cain, the seventh and last recorded descendant of Cain, from a previous age of man before the sons of Seth, was an artificer in copper and iron; the master of all coppersmiths and blacksmiths.
The judgment of the Lord against those Sons of God, was spoken through his servant Enoch, and that was, that those angels who had come from heaven had to return to heaven, but they would have no peace, and first, they had to be bound in the valley of earth till seventy generations had passed, (Jesus is seventy generations from Enoch, See Luke 3; 23-38.) While Azazel was punished separate from the rest, he was taken out to a place in the wilderness called ‘Dudael’ where he was cast into a pit and covered with rough and jagged stones, and all sin was to be ascribed to him.
You will find no source other than the words of righteous Enoch from which Moses could have known of this I am convinced that while in Egypt he was taught from the writings of Enoch. Ten is the end of a cycle, 10+1 is the beginning of the new, Noah was the tenth from God and a new beginning, and Abraham was the tenth from Noah, another new beginning. Enoch was the seventh born son of God and Jesus who is seventy generations from Enoch, is the eleventh of the seventh born sons from God, 10+1, the second Adam.