Universal Reconciliation , in Col 1:20 ?

[dan p]

Hi to all , and Universl Reconciliation , to me uses Col 1:20 , as there proof text .

The KJV reads , " and by Him to reconcile ALL THINGS to Himself , by Him , whether tings on earth or things in heaven , having made peace through the blood of His cross .

From the first reading , it is talking about all things on earth and in heaven , through His blood .

Does it mean ALL THINGS, and I say NO .

The Greek word for ALL THINGS is PANTA .

Col 1:20 , DOES NOT TEACH THAT .

Rather is is TA PANTA , which means " THE ALL THINGS ".

It seems that all translation have not translated the ARTICLE " THE " .

The Greek article , points to SPECIFIC things and does not means " all things "

I believe that God is talking about the Body of Christ that is meant by " THE ALL THINGS " .

The Nation of Israel is not in view here at all , just the Body of Christ .

[ChaosBorders]

Hi to all , and Universl Reconciliation , to me uses Col 1:20 , as there proof text .

The KJV reads , " and by Him to reconcile ALL THINGS to Himself , by Him , whether tings on earth or things in heaven , having made peace through the blood of His cross .

From the first reading , it is talking about all things on earth and in heaven , through His blood .

Does it mean ALL THINGS, and I say NO .

The Greek word for ALL THINGS is PANTA .

Col 1:20 , DOES NOT TEACH THAT .

Rather is is TA PANTA , which means " THE ALL THINGS ".

It seems that all translation have not translated the ARTICLE " THE " .

The Greek article , points to SPECIFIC things and does not means " all things "

I believe that God is talking about the Body of Christ that is meant by " THE ALL THINGS " .

The Nation of Israel is not in view here at all , just the Body of Christ .

Now deal with the rest of the scriptural support in favor of Universal Reconciliation:

* Jesus' prophecy that he will "draw all men" to himself (John 12:32)
* Jesus' teaching that God is "Our Father in heaven" (Matthew 6:9)
* Jesus' teaching that all things will be renewed. (Matthew 19:28)
* Jesus' teaching that the unforgiving servant will be turned "over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed." (Matthew 18:34)
* Jesus' statement that human beings are "gods" (John 10:34, quoting Psalm 82:6)
* Paul's teaching that human beings are God's "offspring" (Acts 17:28)
* Paul's teaching that there is "one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all" (Ephesians 4:6)
* Paul's teaching that "from [God] and through him and to him are all things" (Romans 11:36)
* Paul's prophecy that "as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive" (1 Corinthians 15:22)
* Paul's teaching that "just as the result of one trespass [by Adam] was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness [by Christ] was justification that brings life for all men. ... through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous" (Romans 5:18-19)
* Paul's teaching that "God was pleased (...)to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross" (Colossians 1:19-20)
* Paul's statement that God "is the Saviour of all men, specially of them that believe." (1 Timothy 4:10)
* Paul's teaching that "God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them" (2 Corinthians 5:19)
* Paul's prophecy that "every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Philippians 2:10-11)
* Peter's teaching that Jesus "died for sins once for all" and "went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago" (1 Peter 3:18-20), so that they may "live according to God in regard to the spirit" (1 Peter 4:6)
* John's teaching that "[Jesus Christ] is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world" (1 John 2:2)
* Old Testament teaching that men and women are created "in the image of God" (Genesis 1:27)
* Old Testament teaching that "[God's] anger lasts only a moment" (Psalm 30:5)
* Old Testament teaching that "[God] is good; his love endures forever" (Psalm 106:1, 107:1)
* Old Testament teaching that "The LORD is good to all; he has compassion on all he has made. / All you have made will praise you, O LORD" (Psalm 145:9-10)

[dan p]

Hi to all , and Universl Reconciliation , to me uses Col 1:20 , as there proof text .

The KJV reads , " and by Him to reconcile ALL THINGS to Himself , by Him , whether tings on earth or things in heaven , having made peace through the blood of His cross .

From the first reading , it is talking about all things on earth and in heaven , through His blood .

Does it mean ALL THINGS, and I say NO .

The Greek word for ALL THINGS is PANTA .

Col 1:20 , DOES NOT TEACH THAT .

Rather is is TA PANTA , which means " THE ALL THINGS ".

It seems that all translation have not translated the ARTICLE " THE " .

The Greek article , points to SPECIFIC things and does not means " all things "

I believe that God is talking about the Body of Christ that is meant by " THE ALL THINGS " .

The Nation of Israel is not in view here at all , just the Body of Christ .

Now deal with the rest of the scriptural support in favor of Universal Reconciliation:

* Jesus' prophecy that he will "draw all men" to himself (John 12:32)
* Jesus' teaching that God is "Our Father in heaven" (Matthew 6:9)
* Jesus' teaching that all things will be renewed. (Matthew 19:28)
* Jesus' teaching that the unforgiving servant will be turned "over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed." (Matthew 18:34)
* Jesus' statement that human beings are "gods" (John 10:34, quoting Psalm 82:6)
* Paul's teaching that human beings are God's "offspring" (Acts 17:28)
* Paul's teaching that there is "one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all" (Ephesians 4:6)
* Paul's teaching that "from [God] and through him and to him are all things" (Romans 11:36)
* Paul's prophecy that "as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive" (1 Corinthians 15:22)
* Paul's teaching that "just as the result of one trespass [by Adam] was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness [by Christ] was justification that brings life for all men. ... through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous" (Romans 5:18-19)
* Paul's teaching that "God was pleased (...)to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross" (Colossians 1:19-20)
* Paul's statement that God "is the Saviour of all men, specially of them that believe." (1 Timothy 4:10)
* Paul's teaching that "God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them" (2 Corinthians 5:19)
* Paul's prophecy that "every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Philippians 2:10-11)
* Peter's teaching that Jesus "died for sins once for all" and "went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago" (1 Peter 3:18-20), so that they may "live according to God in regard to the spirit" (1 Peter 4:6)
* John's teaching that "[Jesus Christ] is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world" (1 John 2:2)
* Old Testament teaching that men and women are created "in the image of God" (Genesis 1:27)
* Old Testament teaching that "[God's] anger lasts only a moment" (Psalm 30:5)
* Old Testament teaching that "[God] is good; his love endures forever" (Psalm 106:1, 107:1)
* Old Testament teaching that "The LORD is good to all; he has compassion on all he has made. / All you have made will praise you, O LORD" (Psalm 145:9-10)

Hi Chaosborders , from your comments , you believe in universal reconciliation ?

I that is true AND ALL WILL BE SAVED , then why do the following ?

#1 , Then why give to any Assembly ?
#2 , Why pray ?
#3 , Why send missionaries to foreign lands ?
#4 , Why , witness to anyone of about God's Grace ?
#5 , Why study the Bible ?
#6 , Let us Drink and be Merry , for tomorrow we die ?

So , if we all will be saved eventually , why do anything ?

[ChaosBorders]

Hi to all , and Universl Reconciliation , to me uses Col 1:20 , as there proof text .

The KJV reads , " and by Him to reconcile ALL THINGS to Himself , by Him , whether tings on earth or things in heaven , having made peace through the blood of His cross .

From the first reading , it is talking about all things on earth and in heaven , through His blood .

Does it mean ALL THINGS, and I say NO .

The Greek word for ALL THINGS is PANTA .

Col 1:20 , DOES NOT TEACH THAT .

Rather is is TA PANTA , which means " THE ALL THINGS ".

It seems that all translation have not translated the ARTICLE " THE " .

The Greek article , points to SPECIFIC things and does not means " all things "

I believe that God is talking about the Body of Christ that is meant by " THE ALL THINGS " .

The Nation of Israel is not in view here at all , just the Body of Christ .

Now deal with the rest of the scriptural support in favor of Universal Reconciliation:

* Jesus' prophecy that he will "draw all men" to himself (John 12:32)
* Jesus' teaching that God is "Our Father in heaven" (Matthew 6:9)
* Jesus' teaching that all things will be renewed. (Matthew 19:28)
* Jesus' teaching that the unforgiving servant will be turned "over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed." (Matthew 18:34)
* Jesus' statement that human beings are "gods" (John 10:34, quoting Psalm 82:6)
* Paul's teaching that human beings are God's "offspring" (Acts 17:28)
* Paul's teaching that there is "one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all" (Ephesians 4:6)
* Paul's teaching that "from [God] and through him and to him are all things" (Romans 11:36)
* Paul's prophecy that "as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive" (1 Corinthians 15:22)
* Paul's teaching that "just as the result of one trespass [by Adam] was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness [by Christ] was justification that brings life for all men. ... through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous" (Romans 5:18-19)
* Paul's teaching that "God was pleased (...)to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross" (Colossians 1:19-20)
* Paul's statement that God "is the Saviour of all men, specially of them that believe." (1 Timothy 4:10)
* Paul's teaching that "God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them" (2 Corinthians 5:19)
* Paul's prophecy that "every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Philippians 2:10-11)
* Peter's teaching that Jesus "died for sins once for all" and "went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago" (1 Peter 3:18-20), so that they may "live according to God in regard to the spirit" (1 Peter 4:6)
* John's teaching that "[Jesus Christ] is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world" (1 John 2:2)
* Old Testament teaching that men and women are created "in the image of God" (Genesis 1:27)
* Old Testament teaching that "[God's] anger lasts only a moment" (Psalm 30:5)
* Old Testament teaching that "[God] is good; his love endures forever" (Psalm 106:1, 107:1)
* Old Testament teaching that "The LORD is good to all; he has compassion on all he has made. / All you have made will praise you, O LORD" (Psalm 145:9-10)

Hi Chaosborders , from your comments , you believe in universal reconciliation ?

No, but I think both it and annihiliationism have better scriptural support than the doctrine of hell as eternal torment.

I that is true AND ALL WILL BE SAVED , then why do the following ?

#1 , Then why give to any Assembly ?
#2 , Why pray ?
#3 , Why send missionaries to foreign lands ?
#4 , Why , witness to anyone of about God's Grace ?
#5 , Why study the Bible ?
#6 , Let us Drink and be Merry , for tomorrow we die ?

So , if we all will be saved eventually , why do anything ?

Are you serious? Are you really doing those things JUST BECAUSE YOU THINK YOU'LL BE SAVED?

1. If I support the Assembly, why would I not give to it? Though personally I do not give to an assembly, but rather I will try to directly fund the efforts of varying members thereof according to my (somewhat limited college budget) ability and their need.

2. Because I enjoy talking to God. Why would I not pray just because others might all be saved too? The implications of only praying because you think you're going to heaven yourself while so many others burn are kind of disturbing.

3. Because they feel called to go. Even if everyone is ultimately saved it doesn't mean there isn't value in spreading a message of love that you believe in the here and now.

4. Because God's grace is good. Why would you not witness to God's grace if you believe in it?

5. Because it can be a useful tool for contemplating the magnificence of God. It should also be noted that though my actual beliefs are not Universal Reconciliation, it is a thorough study thereof that leads many to the conclusion that it is a better supported doctrine than the one currently most often spouted in churches. It should also be noted that of the six early Christian theological schools, four were in favor of Universal reconciliation and only one was for eternal torment...until they gained power and started killing everyone who disagreed with them. Not exactly the best way to spread a message of love, in my personal opinion.

6. Huh? Do you mean 'why not?' Well for one thing, Universal Reconciliation only requires everyone eventually end up reconciled to God, not that they all do so immediately. It doesn't even require Hell not to exist, just for it to not be an eternal prison. So trying to use UR as an excuse for immoral actions, or argue that it can't be true because it could be used as such, is faulty.

Further, even if it is the case that there are no consequences in the afterlife for such behaviors, there's still the question of 'Is that really what I want to do with my life in there here and now?' I answer firmly 'no, it is not'. And if it is what you want to do, are you seriously only not doing it because you want to avoid hell or because you want to go to heaven? Either cowardice or ridiculous amounts of self-interest would appear the implications if either of those is the case.

[Benoni]

Amen.

My favorites are:

Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouth’s)
It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.




1 Corinthians 15:22-24

22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

I love debating these verses.

Hi to all , and Universl Reconciliation , to me uses Col 1:20 , as there proof text .

The KJV reads , " and by Him to reconcile ALL THINGS to Himself , by Him , whether tings on earth or things in heaven , having made peace through the blood of His cross .

From the first reading , it is talking about all things on earth and in heaven , through His blood .

Does it mean ALL THINGS, and I say NO .

The Greek word for ALL THINGS is PANTA .

Col 1:20 , DOES NOT TEACH THAT .

Rather is is TA PANTA , which means " THE ALL THINGS ".

It seems that all translation have not translated the ARTICLE " THE " .

The Greek article , points to SPECIFIC things and does not means " all things "

I believe that God is talking about the Body of Christ that is meant by " THE ALL THINGS " .

The Nation of Israel is not in view here at all , just the Body of Christ .

Now deal with the rest of the scriptural support in favor of Universal Reconciliation:

* Jesus' prophecy that he will "draw all men" to himself (John 12:32)
* Jesus' teaching that God is "Our Father in heaven" (Matthew 6:9)
* Jesus' teaching that all things will be renewed. (Matthew 19:28)
* Jesus' teaching that the unforgiving servant will be turned "over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed." (Matthew 18:34)
* Jesus' statement that human beings are "gods" (John 10:34, quoting Psalm 82:6)
* Paul's teaching that human beings are God's "offspring" (Acts 17:28)
* Paul's teaching that there is "one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all" (Ephesians 4:6)
* Paul's teaching that "from [God] and through him and to him are all things" (Romans 11:36)
* Paul's prophecy that "as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive" (1 Corinthians 15:22)
* Paul's teaching that "just as the result of one trespass [by Adam] was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness [by Christ] was justification that brings life for all men. ... through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous" (Romans 5:18-19)
* Paul's teaching that "God was pleased (...)to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross" (Colossians 1:19-20)
* Paul's statement that God "is the Saviour of all men, specially of them that believe." (1 Timothy 4:10)
* Paul's teaching that "God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them" (2 Corinthians 5:19)
* Paul's prophecy that "every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Philippians 2:10-11)
* Peter's teaching that Jesus "died for sins once for all" and "went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago" (1 Peter 3:18-20), so that they may "live according to God in regard to the spirit" (1 Peter 4:6)
* John's teaching that "[Jesus Christ] is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world" (1 John 2:2)
* Old Testament teaching that men and women are created "in the image of God" (Genesis 1:27)
* Old Testament teaching that "[God's] anger lasts only a moment" (Psalm 30:5)
* Old Testament teaching that "[God] is good; his love endures forever" (Psalm 106:1, 107:1)
* Old Testament teaching that "The LORD is good to all; he has compassion on all he has made. / All you have made will praise you, O LORD" (Psalm 145:9-10)

Hi Chaosborders , from your comments , you believe in universal reconciliation ?

No, but I think both it and annihiliationism have better scriptural support than the doctrine of hell as eternal torment.

I that is true AND ALL WILL BE SAVED , then why do the following ?

#1 , Then why give to any Assembly ?
#2 , Why pray ?
#3 , Why send missionaries to foreign lands ?
#4 , Why , witness to anyone of about God's Grace ?
#5 , Why study the Bible ?
#6 , Let us Drink and be Merry , for tomorrow we die ?

So , if we all will be saved eventually , why do anything ?

Are you serious? Are you really doing those things JUST BECAUSE YOU THINK YOU'LL BE SAVED?

1. If I support the Assembly, why would I not give to it? Though personally I do not give to an assembly, but rather I will try to directly fund the efforts of varying members thereof according to my (somewhat limited college budget) ability and their need.

2. Because I enjoy talking to God. Why would I not pray just because others might all be saved too? The implications of only praying because you think you're going to heaven yourself while so many others burn are kind of disturbing.

3. Because they feel called to go. Even if everyone is ultimately saved it doesn't mean there isn't value in spreading a message of love that you believe in the here and now.

4. Because God's grace is good. Why would you not witness to God's grace if you believe in it?

5. Because it can be a useful tool for contemplating the magnificence of God. It should also be noted that though my actual beliefs are not Universal Reconciliation, it is a thorough study thereof that leads many to the conclusion that it is a better supported doctrine than the one currently most often spouted in churches. It should also be noted that of the six early Christian theological schools, four were in favor of Universal reconciliation and only one was for eternal torment...until they gained power and started killing everyone who disagreed with them. Not exactly the best way to spread a message of love, in my personal opinion.

6. Huh? Do you mean 'why not?' Well for one thing, Universal Reconciliation only requires everyone eventually end up reconciled to God, not that they all do so immediately. It doesn't even require Hell not to exist, just for it to not be an eternal prison. So trying to use UR as an excuse for immoral actions, or argue that it can't be true because it could be used as such, is faulty.

Further, even if it is the case that there are no consequences in the afterlife for such behaviors, there's still the question of 'Is that really what I want to do with my life in there here and now?' I answer firmly 'no, it is not'. And if it is what you want to do, are you seriously only not doing it because you want to avoid hell or because you want to go to heaven? Either cowardice or ridiculous amounts of self-interest would appear the implications if either of those is the case.