Religious Hypocrisy!

[JoeyKnothead]

From the article here:

>My emphasis throughout<

A militant atheist who left leaflets mocking Jesus Christ, the Pope and the Koran in the prayer room of an international airport has gone on trial charged with religious harassment.
...
The materials dumped by Harry Taylor at Liverpool's John Lennon airport included "sexually abusive and sexually unpleasant cartoons", a jury heard yesterday. One image showed a smiling Christ on the cross next to an advert for a brand of "no nails"A further cartoon showed two Muslims holding a placard demanding equality with the caption: "Not for women or gays, obviously." glue. In another, Islamic suicide bombers at the gates of paradise are told: " Stop, stop, we've run out of virgins." A further cartoon showed two Muslims holding a placard demanding equality with the caption: "Not for women or gays, obviously."
He said: "The airport is named after John Lennon and his views on religion were pretty much the same as mine. I thought that it was an insult to his memory to have a prayer room in the airport."
The leaflets were discovered by Nicky Lees, the airport chaplain, who told the court she felt "deeply offended and insulted" by their contents.
...
He said: "Of course people have a right to speak freely and have a right to insult people. It is one of the most important rights we have and it must be jealously guarded.

"But it is a right not without some prescription. Mr Taylor exceeded that right."
...
The defendant from Salford, Greater Manchester is charged with three counts of religiously aggravated harassment, alarm or distress under the Crime and Disorder Act.
...

For debate:

It can be reasonably assumed religious folks would be able to place their sacred texts and literature (with all its hateful and violent language regarding "others") throughout this airport (as evidenced by having a place of worship within). Is it fair that an atheist be denied the right to respond?

Are laws designed to restrict the insulting of one group (religion) that itself insults others fair?

What do these religious folks fear from having their tactics turned on them?

[Lux]

Do you not think the Bible doesn't contain condemnation and insults for atheists?

I know it does. But nobody forces me to read the Bible, and like I said, I pride myself in being much more respectful and civil than those who knock on my door and tell me I'm going to hell.

[East of Eden]

Do you not think the Bible doesn't contain condemnation and insults for atheists?

More of a warning. If you don't believe the Bible how is it that it has so much power over you? The religious writings of Christopher Hitchens don't insult me, I just think them wrong and ignore them, while praying for Mr. Hitchen's repentance.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 12:

>apologizing for the double negative<
Do you not think the Bible doesn't contain condemnation and insults for atheists?

More of a warning. If you don't believe the Bible how is it that it has so much power over you?

Because many religious folks are forcing their beliefs into law, or otherwise restricting my rights to live my life in the manner I choose.

The religious writings of Christopher Hitchens don't insult me, I just think them wrong and ignore them, while praying for Mr. Hitchen's repentance.

My problem is when my rights are curtailed because someone thinks their favored god might flood the planet again, or some such goofiness.

[Lux]

Do you not think the Bible doesn't contain condemnation and insults for atheists?

More of a warning. If you don't believe the Bible how is it that it has so much power over you? The religious writings of Christopher Hitchens don't insult me, I just think them wrong and ignore them, while praying for Mr. Hitchen's repentance.

I'm going to assume that no Hitchens fan ever approached you at work/public place/knocked on your door and tried to force their beliefs, which you do not care for, down your throat. That happens to non-theists regularly.

The existence of the Bible doesn't bother me, although I do find it very inappropriate and wouldn't allow my kids (if I had any) to read it. What does bother me is when someone comes to my desk while I'm trying to work to invite me to a bible-based group prayer, and suggests that I'm an immoral, misguided person when I politely refuse. That is extremely annoying.

[East of Eden]

I'm going to assume that no Hitchens fan ever approached you at work/public place/knocked on your door and tried to force their beliefs, which you do not care for, down your throat. That happens to non-theists regularly.

Other than a few Jehovah's Witnesses, no religious people approach me. I politely decline the JWs, just as I do any other unwanted sales call.

The existence of the Bible doesn't bother me,

Good thing, it isn't going anywhere.

although I do find it very inappropriate and wouldn't allow my kids (if I had any) to read it.

The Golden Rule might corrupt them?

What does bother me is when someone comes to my desk while I'm trying to work to invite me to a bible-based group prayer, and suggests that I'm an immoral, misguided person when I politely refuse. That is extremely annoying.

It may be annoying to you, but no harm has been done. Many people get the invitation you decline and it ends up positively changing their life, and eternity.

Don't you also think they are misguided?

[East of Eden]

Because many religious folks are forcing their beliefs into law, or otherwise restricting my rights to live my life in the manner I choose.

All laws are an imposition of somebody's beliefs, over other people's objections.

My problem is when my rights are curtailed

How are Christians curtailing your rights?

because someone thinks their favored god might flood the planet again, or some such goofiness.

Don't worry, God promised He will never flood the world again, so that would be goofy.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 15:

...Many people get the invitation you decline and it ends up positively changing their life, and eternity.

What are these changes to folks' "eternity"?
--------------------------------------------
From Post 16:

All laws are an imposition of somebody's beliefs, over other people's objections.

And the problem is when folks impose their beliefs because they're concerned about some god that can't be shown to exist.

I have no problem with a rational imposition, but when it's because "it makes a god I can't show exists mad", I contend religious oppression has occurred.

How are Christians curtailing your rights?

By forcing me to remain silent when pledging my allegiance to this country. By blocking Sunday alcohol sales. By forcing me to declare my trust in a god I can't show exists when using the coin of the land.

These are just a few overt examples, there are others more subtle and less open to verification.

Don't worry, God promised He will never flood the world again, so that would be goofy.

I trust no god that would do it the first time.

[East of Eden]

What are these changes to folks' "eternity"?

IMHO, heaven instead of hell.

And the problem is when folks impose their beliefs because they're concerned about some god that can't be shown to exist.

And you can't show he doesn't. Even Richard Dawkins admits it's possible God exists.

I have no problem with a rational imposition, but when it's because "it makes a god I can't show exists mad", I contend religious oppression has occurred.

Sorry, but being exposed to an opinion you disagree with doesn't equal this:
"Oppression is the exercise of authority or power in a burdensome, cruel, or unjust manner.[1] It can also be defined as an act or instance of oppressing, the state of being oppressed, and the feeling of being heavily burdened, mentally or physically, by troubles, adverse conditions, and anxiety."

Otherwise, I'm the most oppressed person on this forum.

By forcing me to remain silent when pledging my allegiance to this country.

So get 51% to agree with you and change the laws. Until then, tough.

By blocking Sunday alcohol sales.

Can't you buy enough alcohol in six days?

By forcing me to declare my trust in a god I can't show exists when using the coin of the land.

Oh my, what suffering. I can almost hear the old negro spiritual now.........

/sarcasm off

These are just a few overt examples, there are others more subtle and less open to verification.

I thought those WERE the subtle ones?

I trust no god that would do it the first time.

In a perfect world, yes.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 18:

What are these changes to folks' "eternity"?

IMHO, heaven instead of hell.

Opinion noted and rejected on the basis of no attempt at verification offered.

And you can't show he doesn't. Even Richard Dawkins admits it's possible God exists.

I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't. How can we verify the Christians are correct regarding the wants and wishes of a god they can't even show exists?

Sorry, but being exposed to an opinion you disagree with doesn't equal this:
"Oppression is the exercise of authority or power in a burdensome, cruel, or unjust manner.[1] It can also be defined as an act or instance of oppressing, the state of being oppressed, and the feeling of being heavily burdened, mentally or physically, by troubles, adverse conditions, and anxiety."

I have no doubt Christians don't feel like they're oppressing others. Often it is only the one being oppressed that sees it.

Otherwise, I'm the most oppressed person on this forum.

I realize many Christians would like the rules changed to allow non-evidenced claims. I can totally see where they'd feel that is an oppression.

By forcing me to remain silent when pledging my allegiance to this country.

So get 51% to agree with you and change the laws. Until then, tough.

Tough.

Not "how can work together to ensure folks aren't oppressed", but...

Tough.

By blocking Sunday alcohol sales.

Can't you buy enough alcohol in six days?

No.

This is the same line of thought our Governor used when declaring he'd block any attempt to allow the people to vote on this issue. But of course homosexual marriage was important enough to put to a vote.

By forcing me to declare my trust in a god I can't show exists when using the coin of the land.

Oh my, what suffering. I can almost hear the old negro spiritual now.........

/sarcasm off

I know, "tough".

I read that to mean, "to Hell with you as long as my views are in line with the majority, and regardless of my utter inability to show my views accurately reflect a god I can't show exists."

These are just a few overt examples, there are others more subtle and less open to verification.

I thought those WERE the subtle ones?

I've come to learn Christians don't consider themselves oppressors, what with all their currying the favors of a god they can't show exists.

It is this type of dismissal of legitimate grievances that so turns me off to Christians.

I trust no god that would do it the first time.

In a perfect world, yes.

Whatever.

[Lux]

I'm going to assume that no Hitchens fan ever approached you at work/public place/knocked on your door and tried to force their beliefs, which you do not care for, down your throat. That happens to non-theists regularly.

Other than a few Jehovah's Witnesses, no religious people approach me. I politely decline the JWs, just as I do any other unwanted sales call.

So you see the difference between the Bible and Hitchens' books. Nobody is going to try and force you to read a Hitchens' book, while many people will try to make non-theists to read the Bible, and force some on the Bible's morals on society.

The existence of the Bible doesn't bother me,

Good thing, it isn't going anywhere.

Hopefully one day humanity will reconsider about the morals portrayed in the Bible.

although I do find it very inappropriate and wouldn't allow my kids (if I had any) to read it.

The Golden Rule might corrupt them?

No, the idea that those who believe different from what the Bible says should be slayed might corrupt them. Along with the idea that women are inferior to men, that it is ok to beat your servants, that adulterers should be stoned to death, that "sorcerers" should be murdered, long etc.
They also might be shocked by the idea that if they don't follow someone else's outdated and often irrational set of moral guidelines, they'll go to a place where they'll suffer and burn for all eternity. I do not plan to terrify or traumatize my kids.

What does bother me is when someone comes to my desk while I'm trying to work to invite me to a bible-based group prayer, and suggests that I'm an immoral, misguided person when I politely refuse. That is extremely annoying.

It may be annoying to you, but no harm has been done. Many people get the invitation you decline and it ends up positively changing their life, and eternity.

Don't you also think they are misguided?

Can you offer any proof to sustain that accepting an invitation to a Bible-based group praying session can change one's eternity?

Yes, harm has been done. I have been harassed and insulted in my workplace due to my lack of religious belief. You might not see the harm in calling someone names because of their different ideas, but I did see it. The supervisor who fired that coworker also saw it, by the way.

Yes, I do indeed think people who offend others based on their religious beliefs or lack thereof are very misguided. Yet I don't go around the office telling people what to do or think and disrespect them if they disagree with me.