The purpose of the "Gay" Crusade

TheQuestioner · Post by **TheQuestioner** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:36 am

When i was about ten years of age i attended church on a regular basis. I remember vividly that i few times in sunday school i was taught that being LGBT was horridly wrong, and also that Muslims were sad people because they put so much time and effort into the "wrong religion". Now I tried hard to believe this, but in the end even as a ten year old i couldn't, i couldn't see what was wrong with being gay, and this has got me wondering. What is the purpose of targeting and discriminating homosexuals, what would it achieve for any church base except alienate a portion of their church body? and lastly Why isn't this energy spent on something that does not alienate people and can universally be considered bad, like adultery?

please help me out it confuses me so much at times.

sorry if a similar thread exists i'm new here

East of Eden · Post by **East of Eden** » Sat May 23, 2009 10:43 am

Beto wrote:
East of Eden wrote:Christianity does speak against the deadly perversion of homosexuality, nowhere does Christ say we are to ban other beliefs. God will deal with other beliefs on Judgement Day. Islam is the religion that wants to ban other religions, not Christianity.
I seem to recall a "greatest and most important commandment", that did not go well with "other beliefs". Was it not to be followed in life? Is "not being gay" more important than loving "the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind"?

If someone really loves the Lord with all his heart, soul, and mind, he will obey God's commandments on sex, whether a heterosexual tempted by adultery or a person with same-sex feelings tempted to sin that way.

Beto · Post by **Beto** » Sat May 23, 2009 9:18 pm

East of Eden wrote:
Beto wrote:
East of Eden wrote:Christianity does speak against the deadly perversion of homosexuality, nowhere does Christ say we are to ban other beliefs. God will deal with other beliefs on Judgement Day. Islam is the religion that wants to ban other religions, not Christianity.
I seem to recall a "greatest and most important commandment", that did not go well with "other beliefs". Was it not to be followed in life? Is "not being gay" more important than loving "the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind"?
If someone really loves the Lord with all his heart, soul, and mind, he will obey God's commandments on sex, whether a heterosexual tempted by adultery or a person with same-sex feelings tempted to sin that way.

You're evading the issue. Another commandment was to love "God" with all one's heart, soul, and mind. This cannot be done with other beliefs, plain and simple. From my neutral perspective, a gay person is very much entitled to believe "God" wishes for people to indulge the sexual impulses they were born with. This does not stop a person from loving the god of the Bible. Not believing in the god of the Bible is pretty much a deal breaker in that regard. So tell me how it makes sense to prohibit something that does not imply one does not love "God", but allow for something that completely excludes the possibility. Why do some Christians care so much more about where people stick their weiners, than care about people actually believing in "God", thereby being capable of obeying that most important commandment? Please, explain the logic.

East of Eden · Post by **East of Eden** » Sat May 23, 2009 9:47 pm

You're evading the issue. Another commandment was to love "God" with all one's heart, soul, and mind. This cannot be done with other beliefs, plain and simple. From my neutral perspective, a gay person is very much entitled to believe "God" wishes for people to indulge the sexual impulses they were born with.

Does that also go for those born with a bent towards alcoholism, compulsive gambling, or pedophilia?

This does not stop a person from loving the god of the Bible. Not believing in the god of the Bible is pretty much a deal breaker in that regard. So tell me how it makes sense to prohibit something that does not imply one does not love "God", but allow for something that completely excludes the possibility. Why do some Christians care so much more about where people stick their weiners, than care about people actually believing in "God", thereby being capable of obeying that most important commandment? Please, explain the logic.

You're setting up a false choice, both are important.

Beto · Post by **Beto** » Sun May 24, 2009 7:21 am

East of Eden wrote:
You're evading the issue. Another commandment was to love "God" with all one's heart, soul, and mind. This cannot be done with other beliefs, plain and simple. From my neutral perspective, a gay person is very much entitled to believe "God" wishes for people to indulge the sexual impulses they were born with.
Does that also go for those born with a bent towards alcoholism, compulsive gambling, or pedophilia?

Naturally, I evaluate each situation on its own individual merits. To presume all those things are equivalent, even in what regards how they affect other people and their individual freedoms is... well... If you want to discuss each one separately, I don't mind at all. But you either agree gay people are born with that inclination, or you don't. If you don't, it's pointless to continue along these lines.

East of Eden wrote:
This does not stop a person from loving the god of the Bible. Not believing in the god of the Bible is pretty much a deal breaker in that regard. So tell me how it makes sense to prohibit something that does not imply one does not love "God", but allow for something that completely excludes the possibility. Why do some Christians care so much more about where people stick their weiners, than care about people actually believing in "God", thereby being capable of obeying that most important commandment? Please, explain the logic.
You're setting up a false choice, both are important.

I can clearly tell there's a choice on your part, because you don't wish to address the fact that you worry more about people that (despite saying they worship the same god as you) would like to manifest the same type of devotion to a partner of the same sex, as heterosexual couples do, than about people that either worship other gods, or don't believe in gods entirely. To me, this reveals you do NOT believe that the most important commandment is the aforementioned one, with all the implications that follow.

EDIT: The choice being, that you stand behind banning gay marriage, but not behind banning other religions.

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Sun May 24, 2009 8:41 am

East of Eden wrote:Why are religiously motivated votes less valid than those cast by whatever motivates atheists?

They are not. However, the constitution requires that there must be more than merely a religious justification for enacting law.

East of Eden · Post by **East of Eden** » Sun May 24, 2009 10:46 am

Naturally, I evaluate each situation on its own individual merits. To presume all those things are equivalent, even in what regards how they affect other people and their individual freedoms is... well... If you want to discuss each one separately, I don't mind at all. But you either agree gay people are born with that inclination, or you don't. If you don't, it's pointless to continue along these lines.

I don't, the 'gay gene' idea has been pretty much discredited. http://www.narth.com/docs/mythgene.html IMHO its the result of childhood trauma combined with a complete lack today of what used to be called 'moral training', now replaced by immoral training. Whether I'm right or wrong on that is irrelevant. There is some evidence people are born with a bent towards alcololism, and we don't tell them to just give in to that destructive attraction, we tell them to overcome it. Is that Alcoholicphobic?

I can clearly tell there's a choice on your part, because you don't wish to address the fact that you worry more about people that (despite saying they worship the same god as you) would like to manifest the same type of devotion to a partner of the same sex, as heterosexual couples do, than about people that either worship other gods, or don't believe in gods entirely. To me, this reveals you do NOT believe that the most important commandment is the aforementioned one, with all the implications that follow.

This thread is about the 'Gay' issue.

EDIT: The choice being, that you stand behind banning gay marriage, but not behind banning other religions.

Why would I want to ban other religions? I'm not a Muslim.

Beto · Post by **Beto** » Sun May 24, 2009 12:05 pm

EoE... obviously you don't want to address the key issue I've presented here, which is only natural. But I'll ask you the question one more time in a very clear fashion, so other debaters can judge for themselves whether or not you're evading the issue.

Why are you fine with other people having different religions, and worshipping different gods, when the most important commandment in the Bible, as per Jesus himself, is loving, etc, etc, the god of the Bible, and you're not fine with a less important issue, implied by Jesus' own prioritization, such as gay marriage? Kindly demonstrate you do not hold a double standard. And this is all about the gay issue. It plainly shows you have no objective reason, even as a Christian, to oppose gay marriage, because you care even less to what Jesus said was the most important commandment of all. By Christianity's own standards, you have no moral to judge the righteousness of gay marriage.

East of Eden · Post by **East of Eden** » Sun May 24, 2009 7:22 pm

Beto wrote:EoE... obviously you don't want to address the key issue I've presented here, which is only natural. But I'll ask you the question one more time in a very clear fashion, so other debaters can judge for themselves whether or not you're evading the issue.

Why are you fine with other people having different religions, and worshipping different gods, when the most important commandment in the Bible, as per Jesus himself, is loving, etc, etc, the god of the Bible, and you're not fine with a less important issue, implied by Jesus' own prioritization, such as gay marriage? Kindly demonstrate you do not hold a double standard. And this is all about the gay issue. It plainly shows you have no objective reason, even as a Christian, to oppose gay marriage, because you care even less to what Jesus said was the most important commandment of all. By Christianity's own standards, you have no moral to judge the righteousness of gay marriage.

Your question is far from clear. Where did I say I was 'fine' with people having different religions? I can believe they have free will to choose their beliefs while at the same time believing Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life. I have no clue what 'double standard' your nonsensical post refers to.