Is the bible Gods word?

[dunsapy]

This can be a large topic, because there are many ways to check the bible. From archeology, science, creation, history , prophesies, and what the bible says about itself.( is it full of contradictions?) etc. I certainly don't know everything. And some things are not fully explained in the bible ( or certain usage of words or meanings have been forgotten over time) . But there certainly is enough information to know if the bible is Gods word or not.

[McCulloch]

yes I know. I have got to lay off the science, bit. But science also helps show the bible is true. But the start to life and evolution, I will stay away from.

I appreciate that, and I do not ask you to stay away from science. In fact, let's debate How does science help to show that the Bible is true? in the Science and Religion forum.

Archeology and history, should be included though.

Indeed.

I know I could just use this subforum, to my advantage, and not answer anything, that puts doubt on the validity of the bible. But the bible does not need this protection. So I have always tried, to answer all questions.

Like where in the Bible is the Bible itself defined. There is no mention of the Bible in the Bible, no guidelines for the committee that decided which books to include and which ones to exclude. No divine table of contents. And, significantly, no agreement among those who would follow God's word, just what God's word is.

[dunsapy]

Since we are in a subforum where the Bible is assumed to be correct, then the alleged fulfillment of prophesy cannot be argued against. For example, in Ezekiel 29 and 30, it is prophesied that Nebuchadnezzer would destroy the nation of Egypt and it would be desolate and unoccupied for forty years. Now, assuming that the Bible is true, this must have happened. The historical record which shows a continuous unbroken occupation of Egypt, the names and dates of its rulers, throughout this period must be wrong. Another example is the prophesied complete and final destruction of Tyre by Ezekiel. Never mind that Tyre is mentioned as a going concern in the New Testament.

We did the thing on Neb. already and I showed you where this happened. The information I gave you was from secular source.



The Hebrew prophets Zechariah and Ezekiel declared: “Jehovah himself will dispossess [Tyre], and into the sea he will certainly strike down her military force; and in the fire she herself will be devoured.� (Zech. 9:4) “I [Jehovah] am against you, O Tyre, and I will bring up against you many nations, just as the sea brings up its waves. And they will certainly bring the walls of Tyre to ruin and tear down her towers, and I will scrape her dust away from her and make her a shining, bare surface of a crag. A drying yard for dragnets is what she will become in the midst of the sea.�—Ezek. 26:3-5.

After Sidon surrendered to him, Alexander led his army toward Tyre. A delegation of leading Tyrians, including the son of its King Azemilcus, met him and declared a willingness to comply with his requests. Alexander expressed the desire to be admitted into the city, to present an offering to Heracles (not Hercules, the mighty hero of Greek mythology, but the god Melkarth or Baal). Apprised of this by the delegation, the Tyrians adamantly turned down the request.
Since the outcome of Alexander’s conflict with the Persian King Darius was still in question, the Tyrians thought it in their best interests to deny entry to any Macedonian or Persian. Their action prompted Alexander to act without delay.
Addressing his men, he said: “Friends and fellow soldiers, I do not see how we can safely advance upon Egypt, so long as Persia controls the sea; and to pursue Darius with the neutral city of Tyre in our rear and Egypt and Cyprus still in enemy hands would be a serious risk, especially in view of the situation in Greece. . . . But with Tyre destroyed, all Phoenicia would be ours, and the Phoenician fleet, which both in numbers and quality is the predominant element in the sea-power of Persia, would very likely come over to us.�—Arrian, The Campaigns of Alexander, Penguin Classics, pp. 131, 132.
Alexander’s officers were convinced, and Tyre came under siege. The initial efforts for the siege proved to be in harmony with Bible prophecy. Ezekiel had written: “I will scrape her dust away from her and make her a shining, bare surface of a crag.� (Ezek. 26:4) Alexander determined to build a mole or a causeway to the island city. For this purpose he used the stone and debris from the old mainland city.
As work on the causeway progressed, the Tyrians, with their ships, did everything they could to thwart the project. Countering their attacks, Alexander erected two towers at the far end of the mole. However, the Tyrians succeeded in setting these on fire. Alexander then commanded that the causeway be widened, providing additional space for towers. He also began assembling a tremendous fleet from Sidon, Rhodes, Mallus, Lycia, Macedonia and elsewhere, thus cutting off Tyre’s free access to the sea.
Whereas the construction of the causeway fulfilled prophecy, it was the naval campaign that brought about the fall of Tyre after a siege of seven months. According to Arrian, 8,000 perished during the siege, and 30,000 were sold into slavery.
The year 332 B.C.E. witnessed the fulfillment of these and earlier prophecies regarding Tyre. Alexander the Great had launched his campaign of conquest in the Middle East.

[dunsapy]

Since we are in a subforum where the Bible is assumed to be correct, then the alleged fulfillment of prophesy cannot be argued against. For example, in Ezekiel 29 and 30, it is prophesied that Nebuchadnezzer would destroy the nation of Egypt and it would be desolate and unoccupied for forty years. Now, assuming that the Bible is true, this must have happened. The historical record which shows a continuous unbroken occupation of Egypt, the names and dates of its rulers, throughout this period must be wrong.

The Babylonian Chronicles, now housed in the British Museum, say that Nebuchadnezzar "crossed the river to go against the Egyptian army which lay in Carchemish. The armies fought with each other and the Egyptian army withdrew before him. He accomplished their defeat and beat them to nonexistence. As for the rest of the Egyptian army which had escaped from the defeat so quickly that no weapon had reached them, the Babylonians overtook and defeated them in the district of Hamath so that not a single man escaped to his own country. At that time Nebuchadnezzar conquered the whole of Hatti-land."

Before the battle of Carchemish, Egypt had one of the greatest armies in northern Africa and was a threat to the Middle East, but the battle of Carchemish changed all of that when the Babylonians destroyed the power of Egypt and the independent existence of Assyria. The Battle of Carchemish was the end of the Assyrian Empire, and Egypt was reduced to a second-rate power. Babylon became master of the Middle East.

[dunsapy]

I have mentioned a number of prophecies, here, that came true. Also in the details they became true. This not from man, this is inspired, from God. These are proofs that the bible is inspired and from God.

[McCulloch]

We did the thing on Neb. already and I showed you where this happened. The information I gave you was from secular source.

Yes, and it did not agree with the prophesy. http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... hp?t=10301

The Hebrew prophets Zechariah and Ezekiel declared: “Jehovah himself will dispossess [Tyre], and into the sea he will certainly strike down her military force; and in the fire she herself will be devoured.� (Zech. 9:4) “I [Jehovah] am against you, O Tyre, and I will bring up against you many nations, just as the sea brings up its waves. And they will certainly bring the walls of Tyre to ruin and tear down her towers, and I will scrape her dust away from her and make her a shining, bare surface of a crag. A drying yard for dragnets is what she will become in the midst of the sea.�—Ezek. 26:3-5.

Nice selective quoting.
Ezekiel 26:14 "I will make you a bare rock; you will be a place for the spreading of nets. You will be built no more, for I the LORD have spoken," declares the Lord GOD.
OR NWT: And I will make you a shining, bare surface of a crag. A drying yard for dragnets is what you will become. Never will you be rebuilt; for I myself, Jehovah, have spoken,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.


The coast of modern Tyre.


Tyre circa 1911


The port of Tyre


The Murex Hotel in Tyre.

The first Christian church was founded in Tyre not long after the death of Stephen, the first martyr of Christianity. Paul stayed here for a week with some of his disciples on his return from this 3rd missionary trip (Acts 21:3-7). There may have been some connection to Christianity earlier than this, though, because the gospels claim that people from Tyre traveled to hear Jesus preach (Mark 3:8; Luke 6:17) and that Jesus traveled near Tyre to heal the sick as well as preach (Matthew 15:21-29; Mark 7:24-31).

For many years Tyre was an important center for Christianity in the Holy Lands. During the Byzantine era, Tyre's archbishop was the primate over all bishops throughout the Phoenician region. During this time Tyre was still an important commercial center and this continued even after the Muslims took control of the city.

Crusaders starved Tyre into submission in 1124 and thereafter made it one of the most important cities in the Kingdom of Jerusalem. Tyre had, in fact, long been a center of commerce and wealth, something which successful conquerors always left untouched. Tyre became a rallying point for Crusaders after Saladin captured most of their cities in 1187. Tyre was finally recaptured from the Crusaders by the Mameluks in 1291 and thereafter remained in Muslim hands until it passed into the modern state of Lebanon after World War I.

Today Tyre is the fourth largest city in Lebanon and one of the nation's largest ports. It is also a very popular destination for tourists who are eager to see what the city has to offer in terms of history and archaeology. In 1979 the city was placed on the UNESCO World Heritage list.

Pretty good progress for a place that would never be rebuilt!

[McCulloch]

I have mentioned a number of prophecies, here, that came true. Also in the details they became true. This not from man, this is inspired, from God. These are proofs that the bible is inspired and from God.

Since this is more of at topic to do with Apologetics than Theology, I have challenged this assertion in that subforum.

Are prophectic fulfillments evidence of Divine revalation?

[dunsapy]

The mainland city was no more. The Tyre that existed now was an island city of about 150 acres. To get as many people on the island as possible the Tyrians built their houses several stories high. In time Tyre again became a strong and prosperous city. And again Tyre’s god was mainly Mammon. What riches poured into the city! Describing new Tyre, the island city, God’s prophet Zechariah said: “Tyre built herself a stronghold, and heaped up silver like dust, and gold like the mud of the streets.�—Zech. 9:3, AT
Where did Alexander find materials to build his causeway? Why, from the massive ruins of old Tyre. Alexander’s men salvaged stones and timber and began building a causeway about 200 feet wide. When more construction materials were needed, Alexander ordered all the debris of the ruined city scraped up and dumped into the water. Alexander, as the historian Arrian relates, scraped off the very dust of old Tyre to build his causeway. Thus old Tyre, the mainland city, completely perished, even as God had long before foretold through the prophet Ezekiel: “I will scrape her very dust from her, and will make her a bare rock. . . . Your stones and timber and dust shall be sunk in the heart of the waters.�—Ezek. 26:4, 12, AT.

In the years that followed Alexander’s conquest of Tyre, the island city managed to rebuild itself a number of times, only to be conquered by many nations. The last trace of Tyre’s independent existence was taken from it by the Roman emperor Augustus. A.D. 638 Tyre was captured by the Moslems, and in 1124 Tyre was taken by the crusaders. The crusaders lost it in 1291, when the city was razed almost to a heap of stones. After its capture by the Turks in 1516, Tyre soon became a desolation. When Sandys visited Tyre about 1619 he said: “This once famous Tyre is now no other than a heap of ruins.�
In 1697 Maundrell said of Tyre: “Its present inhabitants are only a few poor wretches harbouring themselves in the vaults, and subsisting chiefly upon fishing, who seem to be preserved in this place by Divine Providence as a visible argument how God has fulfilled his word concerning Tyre, viz., That it should be as the top of a rock, a place for fishers to dry their nets on.�
In 1751 the Swedish naturalist Hasselquist visited Tyre and said: “Here are about ten inhabitants, Turks and Christians, who live by fishing.�
In 1838 Dr. Robinson visited Tyre and later wrote in his Biblical Researches: “I continued my walk along the whole western and northern shore of the peninsula, musing upon the pomp and glory, the pride and fall, of ancient Tyre. Here was the little isle once covered by her palaces and surrounded by her fleet. . . . But alas! . . . Tyre has indeed become ‘like the top of a rock, a place to spread nets upon!’ The sole remaining tokens of her more ancient splendour—columns of red and gray granite, sometimes forty or fifty heaped together, or marble pillars—lie broken and strewed beneath the waves in the midst of the sea; and the hovels that now nestle upon a portion of her site present no contradiction of the dread decree, ‘Thou shalt be built no more.’�
Today the inhabitants of Tyre are not many more than when Dr. Robinson made his visit. Called Es Sur (the old name in Arabic), Tyre is a mere village of about 5,000 people and is built around the north end of the former island. Alexander’s causeway is still there; and the ancient island, now a peninsula, is connected right with the mainland by a tongue of land almost half a mile broad. Once a center of world commerce, Tyre now carries on an insignificant trade in cotton and tobacco; and its fishermen have acres of desolate space to spread out their nets to dry.
The Bible reader looks upon Tyre with great interest, for few cities afford more striking evidence of the absolute certainty of Jehovah’s prophetic Word. “Who has been ruined like Tyre in the heart of the sea?� spoke God’s prophet when Tyre was market of the world and mistress of the seas. “Now you are wrecked in the seas, in the depths of the waters; your cargo and all your crew are sunk in the heart of you. . . . You have come to an awful end, and shall be no more forever.�—Ezek. 27:32, 36, AT.
The city of Tyre has not been rebuilt like it was. Most of the city is an archeology site. Though there are some people living there. It was badly damaged in the late 1970s (Operation Litani) and early 1980s (1982 Lebanon War) during the war between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO). The city was used as a base by the PLO, and was nearly destroyed by Israeli artillery.[18] After Israel's 1982 invasion of southern Lebanon, the city was the site of an Israeli military post. In late 1982, and again on November 1983, buildings housing Israeli headquarters were destroyed by bombs, causing dozens of deaths in both cases and known in Israel as the First and Second Tyre Catastrophes. The 1983 explosion, by a suicide truck, happened only 10 days after similar car bombs exploded in the US Marines and French paratroop barracks in Beirut. Israel and the US blame Iran and Hezbollah for all explosions, but they have denied any involvement.

During the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict, several rocket-launching sites used by Hezbollah to attack Israel were located in rural areas around the city.[19] At least one village near the city was bombed by Israel, as well as several sites within the city, causing civilian deaths, and adding to the food shortage problem inside Tyre.[20] Israeli naval commandos also raided Hezbollah targets within the city.[21]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyre,_Lebanon

[dunsapy]

I see you guys can use photos. Can you use a photo from your computer or do you have to a have web site that , has the photo's stored on it?

[Goat]

The mainland city was no more. The Tyre that existed now was an island city of about 150 acres. To get as many people on the island as possible the Tyrians built their houses several stories high. In time Tyre again became a strong and prosperous city. And again Tyre’s god was mainly Mammon. What riches poured into the city! Describing new Tyre, the island city, God’s prophet Zechariah said: “Tyre built herself a stronghold, and heaped up silver like dust, and gold like the mud of the streets.�—Zech. 9:3, AT
Where did Alexander find materials to build his causeway? Why, from the massive ruins of old Tyre. Alexander’s men salvaged stones and timber and began building a causeway about 200 feet wide. When more construction materials were needed, Alexander ordered all the debris of the ruined city scraped up and dumped into the water. Alexander, as the historian Arrian relates, scraped off the very dust of old Tyre to build his causeway. Thus old Tyre, the mainland city, completely perished, even as God had long before foretold through the prophet Ezekiel: “I will scrape her very dust from her, and will make her a bare rock. . . . Your stones and timber and dust shall be sunk in the heart of the waters.�—Ezek. 26:4, 12, AT.

So?? The 'mainland' part of Tyre was just an outpost for the main city. If you read the prophecy, it says 'Tyre', not 'mainland Tyre'. A few outbuildings is not particularly dramatic at all.

The prophecy said 'Tyre' , not 'a little bit of Tyre'.

[dunsapy]

The city of Tyre was destroyed. It was never rebuilt, the ruins are there today. There is a small community that is around this. But Tyre as it was , was destroyed.