The Idle Tale

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Ben Masada
Sage
Posts: 517
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:28 pm
Location: Israel

The Idle Tale

Post #1

Post by Ben Masada »

Today I was visited by a Christian who calls himself a "Messianic Jew." After an
hour of study about the resurrection, he got impatient with my, as he said, lack
of faith and, before he left, he challenged me to produce the body. That's what
inspired me to share with you this topic for discussion.

Now, if we put ourselves together, and then together whatever we can from reading the NT about the resurrection of Jesus, we will see that he did not
resurrect. I would like to bring to your attention some points about that tale.
Tale! Oh yes, and the term is not mine, I am borrowing it from Jesus' own disciples who went even further by adding the adjective "idle." Idle tale, they
said. (Luke 24:11)

The women had reported the words of the "angel" that Jesus had resurrected. The
disciples probably had never heard of such a thing. They had no choice but to discard their report as an idle tale. Now think: If those who lived daily with Jesus, listening daily to his words, could not believe the report, how can we be expected to, after two thousand years of listening to a tale that just won't get less idle?

When did the disciples ever change their minds about the idle tale? I wonder because about 30 years later, when Paul showed up in Jerusalem, preaching that Jesus had resurrected, he nearly got killed. (Acts 9:29) Why? Was not the Sect of the Nazarenes headquartered in Jerualem? Yes, but that Jesus had resurrected
was not part of their agenda. The whole thing therefore, had been made up by Paul. Yes, all according to his gospel as he himself revealed it to his disciple Timothy. (II Tim. 2:8) Obviously Paul needed that tale to promote his Cause,
which turned out to be Christianity.

The resurrection of Jesus can be accepted only and exclusively by faith because
there is no evidence to substantate the event. An empty tomb is no proof of resurrection. And the refusal at the time to produce the body does not diminish from the fact that the body was indeed removed from that tomb. And the guards can never be taken as evidence of anything whatsoever, because they had been settled at the tomb area only late Saturday morning.

The disciple who removed Jesus' body from that tomb, most probably Joseph of
Arimathea, had the whole night of Friday, and all for himself to act without any
disturbance. And he did it because he had enough reasons to believe that, by not doing so, even during the hours of that Sabbath, Mary Magdalene would have done it instead, as she herself declared she would. (John 20:15)

So, I wish the preachers of the resurrection would at least give Paul the credit that
is due him. (II Tim. 2:8)

Ben: <*)))>< :-k

User avatar
InTheFlesh
Guru
Posts: 1478
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:54 pm

Post #2

Post by InTheFlesh »

This idle tale you speak of
is an Avalanche
in full speed for over two thousand years
are you planning to stop it?

According to the bible, Jesus rose from the dead.

John.11 [25] Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life:
he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Ben Masada
Sage
Posts: 517
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:28 pm
Location: Israel

Post #3

Post by Ben Masada »

InTheFlesh wrote:This idle tale you speak of
is an Avalanche
in full speed for over two thousand years
are you planning to stop it?

According to the bible, Jesus rose from the dead.

John.11 [25] Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life:
he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sure! But you don't believe it, do you? Neither do I. Do you know why? Because
we can think.

Ben: <*)))>< :-k

User avatar
InTheFlesh
Guru
Posts: 1478
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:54 pm

Post #4

Post by InTheFlesh »

Yes, I do believe that Jesus physically rose from the dead.
I also beleive that we will all raise from the dead.

Ben Masada
Sage
Posts: 517
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:28 pm
Location: Israel

Post #5

Post by Ben Masada »

InTheFlesh wrote:Yes, I do believe that Jesus physically rose from the dead.
I also beleive that we will all raise from the dead.
++++++++++++++++++++

Sorry for having overestimated you. But remember, to believe such a thing one
needs faith, and where faith begins, knowledge ends; and for lack of knowledge
people perish. That's in Hosea 4:6.

Ben: <*)))><

User avatar
InTheFlesh
Guru
Posts: 1478
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:54 pm

Post #6

Post by InTheFlesh »

No need to apologize for my beliefs.

Heb.11
[1] Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Faith is not as blind as you make it to be.
Faith is real.
Jesus is real.

Ben Masada
Sage
Posts: 517
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:28 pm
Location: Israel

Post #7

Post by Ben Masada »

InTheFlesh wrote:No need to apologize for my beliefs.

Heb.11
[1] Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Faith is not as blind as you make it to be.
Faith is real.
Jesus is real.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Look at the definition of faith. "The evidence of things not seen." To see is to understand, and understanding comes from knowledge. In that case, if you
allow me to be blatant without meaning any offense, faith becomes in this
syllogism the evidence of ignorance. Now, be scholastic by not feeling offended.
That's just a syllogism of Philosophy.

Ben: <*)))><

User avatar
InTheFlesh
Guru
Posts: 1478
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:54 pm

Post #8

Post by InTheFlesh »

Hey Ben,

No need to walk on eggshells with me.
Feel free to speak your mind.

It seems you overlooked the words in bold in the biblical definition of faith.

Ben Masada
Sage
Posts: 517
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:28 pm
Location: Israel

Post #9

Post by Ben Masada »

InTheFlesh wrote:Hey Ben,

No need to walk on eggshells with me.
Feel free to speak your mind.

It seems you overlooked the words in bold in the biblical definition of faith.
+++++++++++++++++++++

Very good "In TheFlesh!" It means you are indeed a sage.

I know, "substance" and "evidence." I am not too much into faith. Hope is more
of my genre. Faith is too misleading, and serves only to cause disappointments.
For instance, if one has faith that something will happen tomorrow and it doesn't, the faithful is the one to be blamed for. His faith was not good enough.

On the other hand, if he hopes that something will happen tomorrow and it doesn't,
there is nothing wrong with his hope; he can hope again. It means that faith is
of the faithful, and hope is of the hoped for.

Faith also tends to cause tragedies; hope never does. Remember the faithful ones
of Jim Jones? When faith had no way out of that predicament, almost a thousand
of them committed suicide.

In 1844 there was in Washington a growing religious cult that from studying some
of the prophecies of Daniel became sure that Jesus would return that year. One
third hoped that it would be true but continued with their lives as normal. These
escaped to hope again. One third sold their belongs and gave the proceeds to the
poor, and after a couple of days of disappointment, committed suicide. The other
third decided that they had made a mistake and started a new Christian sect called
Seventh-Day Adventists. The event became known as the Great Disappointment
of 1844.

Therefore, I prefer hope. One can live by hope, which usually is the last thing to go. Faith, on the contrary, one can die from it. Never mind what you read in the
Bible that the just lives by faith. That's not faith; it's hope.

Ben: <*)))>< :-k

User avatar
Slackerella
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:17 pm

Post #10

Post by Slackerella »

Look at the definition of faith. "The evidence of things not seen." To see is to understand, and understanding comes from knowledge. In that case, if you
allow me to be blatant without meaning any offense, faith becomes in this
syllogism the evidence of ignorance. Now, be scholastic by not feeling offended.
That's just a syllogism of Philosophy.
One doesn't watch an object NOT bring itself into existence if it doesn't exist. Therefore, no law of logic can be observed by watching nothing.

Faith does in fact begin where knowledge and logic fail or end.

Post Reply