What Did Jesus Mean By This?

[GospelJohn]

John 14:6 says: "Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."

How should we interpret this verse? It is as close as Jesus ever came to offering verbiage that even approaches the Christian creed. When asked directly by the wealthy man how he could to get to heaven, Jesus answered that he should follow the Commandments (Luke 18:20). So is John 14:6 a departure from His original guidance? Does this verse tell us that He died for our sins? Just what does it mean to enter into heaven "through Him?"

I have long contended that we must "love" our way into heaven. That does not mean we attain heaven through "our works" for Jesus asked only that we treat each other according to the Golden Rule. I believe entering heaven "through Him" means that we are to follow His example of living a perfect life. Jesus never does say that He died as a sacrifice for our sins, even after He rose from the grave when the Christian creed took effect. So in at least two places in the Bible Jesus has a different answer regarding the question of our salvation than did Paul. That always struck me as odd that the most important point of all, the difference between eternal bliss and irreversible torture (according to the Christian creed) did not merit an uniform answer between Jesus and Paul. Why would our loving, just and omniscient Father not make this most important point crystal clear from Genesis to Revelation?

Traditional Christians must thank Paul every day for making sure he stated what our Lord clearly neglected to point out regarding our salvation. However, it hardly seems correct that Paul would have better communication skills than Jesus (God incarnate). I have heard that "explained away" because Jesus had better things to do during His ministry than to write it all down so God delegated that task to Paul. But what about all of Jesus' years from age 12 - 30? Was He too busy to write anything in those years? He seemed to be keeping a low profile and was not yet involved in His ministry, so what was keeping Him too busy to write it all down then?

So what does everyone here think are the answers to my questions above, and where might you think I went wrong?

[GospelJohn]

myth-one.com: "Both sections of scripture [regarding Mankind's salvation] are true for the times spoken of and do not contradict each other."

GJ: I appreciate that you (and many Christian pundits before you) have devised an interpretation of some Biblical verses that appear to be in conflict so that they eventually fit the theology and creed you prefer. There's nothing so satisfying as finding a Bible verse that confirms what we already believe.

But let's go back to the concept that no one was saved before Jesus gave His life on the Cross. What's that all about? If God is unwilling that any soul should perish, then why would He create a system for our salvation where He doesn't get what He wants? Was God incapable of saving every soul despite His gift of free will to each of us, without interference, forever? If God could not save us all while we maintain our free will, what else do you believe is beyond God's ability to accomplish that He also desires?

I'm sure that when the question of our salvation is posed like that, it takes on a much different perspective.

[myth-one.com]

I appreciate that you (and many Christian pundits before you) have devised an interpretation of some Biblical verses that appear to be in conflict so that they eventually fit the theology and creed you prefer.

Well, which part of my explanation did you not agree with and why?

But let's go back to the concept that no one was saved before Jesus gave His life on the Cross. What's that all about?

For the wages of sin is death; ... (Romans 6:23)

The only salvation before the crucifixion of Jesus was to never sin, because the wages of sin is death. But every man who ever lived except for Jesus, sinned:

For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God; (Romans 3:23)

So clearly, no man before Jesus ever gained salvation by never sinning!

When Jesus was born as a man and lived a sinless life, He was not under the death sentence. Thus, He could sacrifice His life to pay the penalty for our sins. After He died, the path to salvation became a belief in Jesus and His sacrifice to pay the penalty for our sins:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

I'm sure that when the question of our salvation is posed like that, it takes on a much different perspective.

No matter how the question is "posed," the answer is above as stated in the scriptures. If mankind could effectively gain salvation before Jesus died, there would have been no reason for Jesus' sacrifice! He died to end the Old Testament covenant between God and man, and to begin the New Testament covenant.

[GospelJohn]

myth-one.com: "So clearly, no man before Jesus ever gained salvation by never sinning!"

GJ: Are you saying that Elijah and Moses are in hell or will be sent there at the Last Judgment? Then why were they both seen with Jesus by Peter, James and John during the Transfiguration? (Mark 9:4)

I'm guessing you don't think them condemned to hell, but then you didn't explain how and why "retroactive salvation" works in actual practice. What is the process by which all people living before the time of Jesus' sacrifice can be saved...if at all?

[myth-one.com]

Are you saying that Elijah and Moses are in hell or will be sent there at the Last Judgment? Then why were they both seen with Jesus by Peter, James and John during the Transfiguration? (Mark 9:4)

Elijah and Moses are resting in their graves. Jesus Himself called the event a "vision" or apparation:

And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. (Matthew 17:9)

A vision of Elijah and Moses was "seen."

I'm guessing you don't think them condemned to hell, but then you didn't explain how and why "retroactive salvation" works in actual practice. What is the process by which all people living before the time of Jesus' sacrifice can be saved...if at all?

They will be resurrected as mortal humans at the second resurrection and preached the gospel at that time. Those choosing to will then accept Jesus as their Savior.

So clearly, no man before Jesus ever gained salvation by never sinning!"

And you never explained how any man before Jesus gained salvation! The wages of sin is death and all men sinned. Where's the loophole?

[GospelJohn]

myth-one.com: "They [souls that never heard the Gospel] will be resurrected as mortal humans at the second resurrection and preached the gospel at that time. Those choosing to will then accept Jesus as their Savior."

GJ: OK, but what about everyone having an equal chance at salvation because God is a God of justice? Let's say that two people living in a foreign land grow up never hearing the Gospel. One of them late in life runs into a missionary that wants him to change his entire life and believe in a God he'd never heard of before that moment...and so the missionary's pitch is rejected.

Now both men die and the one that rejected the Gospel is sent to hell. The other is revived and has the Gospel told to him and asked to accept Jesus as his savior. I'm guessing that is a more compelling pitch than the man got from the missionary. You realize you've died and someone tells you upon regaining consciousness and knowing you died on earth that you'll burn in hell for rejecting the Gospel. Who among us would not be convinced at that point?

So it would seem that the worst luck we could have is to be born into a non-Christian family (say Muslim), raised to love God and accept His ways for your own, and then reject that missionary's pitch one fateful day sealing your fate of eternal torture all in that moment. Knowing that same person could avoid hearing the Gospel their whole life and have a much more compelling presentation after they died on earth would be a much better scenario for us all.

How do you explain that a God of Justice would treat His children so differently depending on their luck of "when or where" they lived on earth? Is our exposure to the Gospel really so random or arbitrary?

[myth-one.com]

GJ: OK, but what about everyone having an equal chance at salvation because God is a God of justice? Let's say that two people living in a foreign land grow up never hearing the Gospel. One of them late in life runs into a missionary that wants him to change his entire life and believe in a God he'd never heard of before that moment...and so the missionary's pitch is rejected.

Now both men die and the one that rejected the Gospel is sent to hell. The other is revived and has the Gospel told to him and asked to accept Jesus as his savior. I'm guessing that is a more compelling pitch than the man got from the missionary. You realize you've died and someone tells you upon regaining consciousness and knowing you died on earth that you'll burn in hell for rejecting the Gospel. Who among us would not be convinced at that point?

So it would seem that the worst luck we could have is to be born into a non-Christian family (say Muslim), raised to love God and accept His ways for your own, and then reject that missionary's pitch one fateful day sealing your fate of eternal torture all in that moment. Knowing that same person could avoid hearing the Gospel their whole life and have a much more compelling presentation after they died on earth would be a much better scenario for us all.

How do you explain that a God of Justice would treat His children so differently depending on their luck of "when or where" they lived on earth? Is our exposure to the Gospel really so random or arbitrary?

God is indeed just. The exact same thing will happen to all nonbelievers who have died. None of these go to hell, unless by hell you mean their grave. Since both of your examples died as nonbelievers, they will both be resurrected at the second resurrection, have the true gospel message explained to them, make their choice, and be born again into everlasting life or cast into the lake of fire and quickly perish.

I feel sure that your questions and confusion arise from believing that all men are born with immortal souls. Most Catholics and Protestants believe all mankind is born with immortality. Billy Graham tells it as follows:

The Bible teaches that you are an immortal soul. Your soul is eternal and will live forever. In other words, the real you -- the part of you that thinks, feels, dreams, aspires; the ego, the personality-- will never die. The Bible teaches that your soul will live forever in one of two places -- heaven or hell. If you are not a Christian and you have never been born again, then the Bible teaches that your soul goes immediately to a place Jesus called hades, where you will await the judgment of God. The moment a Christian dies, he goes immediately into the presence of Christ. There his soul awaits the resurrection, when the soul and body will be rejoined.

The Bible absolutely does not teach the above. When the words "eternal life" or "everlasting life" are used in the Bible, they are used in phrases such as inherit eternal life, the gift of eternal life, or the promise of everlasting life. It is never mentioned as something one is born with, but something that Christians shall inherit in the future:

And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive a hundred-fold, and shall inherit eternal life. (Matthew 19:29)

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:7)

And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. (I John 2:25)

The fact is that the reward of the saved is everlasting life. Immortality is not a consequence of being born! We are not born with our reward. Those who believe they are born with immortality can never understand the Bible which states exactly the opposite:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)