Is blasphemy worse than infanticide?

[OnceConvinced]

In another thread on the topic of the dispicable things done in the name of religion, a Christian made this absolutely appalling and sickening statement in regards to infanticide:

What those persecutors did to fellow humans isn't nearly as troublesome to God as what many atheists do right here and elsewhere, daily blaspheming the Holy Spirit, knowing the truth but rejecting it. God hates the shedding of innocent blood, listing that as one the top seven sins, yet none come close to blasphemy.

Yes. Believe it or not, this person had the audacity to suggest that blaspheming God is worse than infanticide!

Is blasphemy worse than infaticide? If yes, In what way?

Why would blasphemy upset an all-knowing, all-powerful perfect being?

What negative effects could it possibly have on this being or anyone else for that matter?

[daedalus 2.0]

Gee, I wish I had a religion in which I could call people fools and blame it on someone else so I could hide my cowardice.

I've already seen you made God's fool list too. He says it, I believe it, therefore I say you are a fool on that basis. This isn't mere name calling. I am passing on God's perspective, which I accept as my own. Hey, at least that isn't a 'dirty word', but simply a label for inner-man corruption. It's something that comes with having been turned over to a reprobate mind, as God puts it. Romans 1:28 "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;"

2 Tim. 3:8 "Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith."

Even Christians can depart, falling into that. You are not alone, so don't take it too personally. I hold out hope you or maybe a few others here will realize it is no fun being a reprobate-minded fool, a few turning to Jesus Christ.

Oh, wait, I do! I have my own religion that I call Mockism: I mock people who are relgionists and thier beliefs. The doctrine is that I call people Morons who call me fools, and I call their gods and spirits meglomanical, evil pedophiles

See there? You prove my point! You have now met all the Bible descriptions of a fool in God's eye. But you don't have to remain one. I know what an empty life being a fool is, ministering to them often. I doubt any fool really wants to remain a fool. It's so unnatural to be one! Mockism won't get you anything good or virtuous. It will only destroy your mind, soul and spirit. Again, you express profound ignorance of facts and accepted knowledge by calling me a moron. Can you define one? Do you have enough data to support that diagnosis? I'm a moron because I agree with God you are a fool? I doubt any professional that knows something about morons would agree with you. I recommend you take some time off here, go get some education. See ya about the year 2016, as it will take you that long to support anything you say here successfully. Study hard!

Oddly, you prove MY point.

used to describe a person with a mental age located between 8 and 12 on the Binet scale.

I estimate about 10.

The Flesch-Kincaid Readability scale has you at 6th grade. Gee, I was off by a year or two....


Did I touch a nerve? Ouch! You can't handle a little of what you dish out? Your God Complex can't handle a little challenge? Can't answer my questions? God isn't answering?

[JoeyKnothead]

me:

I know I am, but what are you?

So I screwed up a common addage. I still say this person insists on repeated denigrations, to atheists as a whole, and to me individually, I think it is unfair that I am unable to use this kind of hateful language against others, while they use it against me. If we are to have civil debate, then civil it should be. I have done my dead level best to try to stay within the confines of the forum rules but this poster has been able to spew his hatred time and again. So I ask for a moderator ruling on the language.


Word_Swordsman:

Fools require interpretations of the obvious. Your brain is corrupted by the world, lacking the truth God provides.

Denying the existence of God just makes you a fool, but if you keep that belief all your life and never repent, then you join Satan in hell.

I do understand how it is fools regard Bible teachings as fairy tales.

more like a little Pomeranian thinking he can run the car off his street.

Only a fool would think that.

But, there's the catch, as no fool can understand.

From His wisdom I have learned atheists are fools, as God defines a fool.

Because God has made it clear who the fools are, that knowledge is mine too

As an atheist, I am not able to say, "As atheists define fools." So I don't see why this could be allowed of theists. After the many previous examples, I say this is just hiding behind the words of others.

Ignoring what God said about sin is folly of fools.

I can understand this usage, and I have no problem with it, 'on its face'.

Denying the existence of God just makes you a fool, (but if you keep that belief all your life and never repent, then you join Satan in hell.)

I get the whole idea about going to hell, so that's not so much an issue for the particular way it was used, but I object to repeated uses of calling anyone a fool because they don't believe (me, you, this dude, whoever).

These are from this thread alone.

I have no problem with prefacing these terms with 'God says,' what I have a problem with is this poster using these terms - dare I say - out of context. Its my opinion he is doing so out of malice, and hiding behind the fact that these terms are used in the Bible. The Bible is the language of the theist, and God bless 'em for it, but my language is the language of the real world, and I am asked to suppress it when I come in here. If I am to suppress the worst of my language, then is it not reasonable to ask the theist to suppress the worst of his?

Thought its too late, I really don't want to have an Oprah moment over this, but I think I have a valid point, and I will stand to defend whats fair.

[Word_Swordsman]

Yeah, problem is you didn't show me you believe what God wants you to believe - you just quoted parts of the Bible that YOU believe show you are right.

I could quote Captain Kirk to show I am right.

Plus, you haven't even shown the Bible is true, so it defeats your purpose to quote it.

And, I was a Xian - I used to listen to the Lord. He wasn't that convincing. And before you claim I wasn't a good Xian, I was better than you - I didn't brag about it.

Put your dic... sword away, Conan, this isn't Dungeons and Dragons.

"The purpose of this subforum is to have a place to freely engage in debates on Christian theology with the basic assumption that the Bible can be used as a primary reference without the need to defend its authority. Responses to topics with "but first you have to prove that the Bible is true" is not allowed here."

I am beginning to agree with many theists that atheists tend to be quite lawless. Maybe you model for the group? It appears to me you atheists have lost control of yourselves. Mission accomplished....serious discussion deemed impossible, not enough knowledge among the atheists....drop back & punt to keep things moving...

So now, what quotes from Kirk? I've watched every known episode. Wow, you certainly have gone elementary on me. Flustered? You are out of your league here. You need to know something about the Bible to hold up in here. Kirk can't help you, as all he had to say was fantasy. I'd be tempted, but will not push you off the cliff like he did to Kruge with "I have had enough of you..." in Star Trek III.

[JoeyKnothead]

Word_Swordsman:

I pull my sword and clean it on your shirt. Next?

My sword draws again.

Wiping blood from a successful first blow.

Wiping blood from a successful first blow.

Wiping blade again.

Sheathing sword, having mercy, letting you bleed quietly.

Sword still sheathed, serpent's head bruised under my heel.

I've already seen you made God's fool list too. He says it, I believe it, therefore I say you are a fool on that basis. This isn't mere name calling. I am passing on God's perspective, which I accept as my own.

After all the proofs I've shown before I say this dude is hiding behind scripture to insult folks, and that ain't right.

I hold out hope you or maybe a few others here will realize it is no fun being a reprobate-minded fool, a few turning to Jesus Christ.

I know what an empty life being a fool is, ministering to them often

Is this what this website is about?

[Goat]

It is truly an evil god that would have families torn apart because one of the members does not believe. What a tragedy that a family could be separated, possibly forever in the name of God.

Matthew 19:29 "And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life."

Read it and weep. There are lots of choices to decide between, really for everyone.

Why? The "Gospel of Mathew" is just a book written by man, not inspired by God at all. Anybody with any spiritual discernment can see it is false ,and not scripture at all. Only those Deceived by Satan will use it.

[OnceConvinced]

God is no longer able to change a blasphemer once blaspheming after having received the truth, in keeping with His own self limitations, via the Word of God.

How is this a limitation of God? I don't believe this is about not being able to. It's about choosing not to.

Instead of being irritated God simply follows His own rules. He leaves it to men and women to make the journey choices that lead to one of two ultimate paths, the narrow straight one to Heaven, or the broad one to hell. None of that is His decision. Keep in mind my earlier teaching that God chooses to remember or to forget absolutely. He wants to forget sins, and will if repented of a person having the righteousness of Christ in them. On the other side of that coin, God remembers every unrepented sin, all recorded in a book.

So God sets some silly rules for himself and declares that he will not budge from those rules? He even sets the rules having foreknowledge of the ramifications that they are going to have. Yeah, that's really bright, that is.

Ignoring what God said about sin is folly of fools.

You have actually contradicted yourself by saying this. If you were going to ignore that statement, you wouldn't have typed it. This is nothing short of a personal attack on your part and against the rules of the forum.

What I see is silly is trying to use circular reasoning, which is what you seem to be doing.

Once again you have shown no real good reason why Blasphemy should be considered unforgiveable apart from "God said so". However no where in the bible does it say that mocking God is classed as blasphemy. That's a very pharisitical way of looking at things.

All sins separate men from God until He can forgive sins through repentance of the sinner. Each unconfessed unrepented sin keeps a person from receiving anything from God. Her sins are forgivable, while blasphemy is not.

You are simply going round in circles claiming blasphemy is unforgivable when there is no good reason for it to be unforgiveable accept for the belief that God set rules for himself and one of those rules is that blasphemy would be the unforgiveable sin.

Blasphemy = Unforgiveable sin
Why is it unforgiveable? Because God declared it would be.

She has done something similar to what Adam & Eve did, getting expelled from the nice garden, sentenced to hard work eking a living out of the ground. She had it made while in our good graces. Now she is miserable, but living a life she seems to want. So far she can't afford internet, cable, or eat well except the stuff they let employees consume on the job. The price tag for choosing her way was to miss getting a college degree and finding a good job. There are lots of lessons in this, one being that sin carries consequences. Sins can be forgiven, but there is no guarantee consequences of sins in this life are wiped away.

So all she has done is messed things up for herself. So what? Why should God refuse to forgive her for that? Simply because he made the rule not to forgive such offences?

Also what God did to Adam and Eve was a huge over-reaction.

What you are doing in this thread is making out God to be petty and mean. Even worse than that. Cruel and stubborn. If I was still a Christian, I'd be furious that you were trying to portray God the way you're doing. In fact I guess God hasn't completely left me because I'm actually feeling a bit of righteous indignation about that myself. Still, I guess the phrasees would love you.

I am not angry towards her. I pity her. I would be angry if she tried to clean out a bank account, probably having knowledge of how to do it. If she were to become some terrible despot, of course we'd be crushed, but there remains a certain parent/child love.

It's a bit of a contradiction to say you pity someone, but yet refuse point blank to help her, even though you could do so without breaking a sweat. That's not pity, that's just mean. That's hard-hearted and uncaring.

[OnceConvinced]

The idea God can't forgive those who deny his existence is born purely out of a desire to scare people into churches. You can be forgiven for any sin, because these are actual sins (crimes). These are sins folks may commit, as bad as they are, but they happen. So in order to get you back into church, the Bible allows you to repent, and carry on about your worshiping.

It is not an unforgivable sin to be a fool, saying in your heart there is no god. The breaking point with God is to assign evil to the Spirit of God. Anything short of that is a forgivable sin. Being an atheist is not in that category until an atheist reviles the Spirit. The Father can and does regularly call atheists to confess Jesus as Savior, and as soon as possible, confess Him as Lord, and become a disciple, being conformed to the image of God's Son.

Where in the bible does it seperate Blasphemy into degrees?

By the way, calling someone a fool is a sin. Jesus said so himself. Also it might pay to take a read of Romans 1:22. You'll see there what the bible says about people who think they know all the answers.

[OnceConvinced]

Some theists say that. There are multiple victims from blasphemy. The first victim is the person doing that. God has no part in that sin coming about, and certainly doesn't think it is done in the best interest of any person. God loves, even sinners while still sinning. Because of that love He provides a way for sinners to be saved from sin and hell. It's kind of like a doctor I really liked many years ago who sent me a letter, saying I need not return for his services. I was in the habit of stopping antibiotics when I felt better. My concern was taking too many of them, eventually having none that would work in me. He did his best to give me top notch medical care, but I was stubborn. No matter what was prescribed, I never used all of any pill. God has done all He should do concerning men and their sins. He sent the prophets (ignored), then Jesus (ignored), and upon Jesus' return to Heaven, the Father sent the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit then taught the disciples the "rest of the story" just as Jesus announced in John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." The Spirit is the last messenger God was to send to us. Revile Him, die eternally without remedy. The Holy Spirit is the only agent of God still working on earth towards pointing men to Christ. He is like a last bridge to home. If you have to cross two bridges from work to home, it doesn't matter how well you crossed the first if you have destroyed the other.

Well with all God's failures so far, what makes him think this one's gonna work? 2000 years on and he's still failing miserably.

None of this hurts God. He is fine, thank you. It is man who suffers from stupid actions.

And so that makes blasphemy the unforgiveable sin.

"Man's messed himself up. What the hell, I'll make it worse for him. I'll never forgive him!"

[OnceConvinced]

It's a good thing you can now see you are a fool according to God. Me? I'm a saint of God, a disciple of Jesus Christ, a child of God, a co-heir with the Son of God, having the righteousness of God in Christ in me, my hope of glory. Level of debate? Seeing you are obviously mired down in a swamp of false teachings and corrupted ideas, I suppose we'll have to keep it on this level, Bible scholar v. fool atheist. I spend more valuable time elsewhere practicing apologetics, debating other Bible experts concerning end times, world politics, etc. , but find a little time to come shed some light for atheist fools. Hey, you are what you are, and you admit it. Again, that's progress. It's as valuable to you as an alcoholic confessing he has the addiction.

All you are doing is coming in here with warped teachings, that aren't biblical and making personal attacks on people. All you are doing is making Christians look bad and giving your God a bad name.

In this sub forum the Bible is admitted as a valid testimony. I am not making up tales, but relaying what the Bible teaches. I do understand how it is fools regard Bible teachings as fairy tales. If you refuse to allow that then you should vacate this sub forum.

This entire post has been nothing but a personal attack on Joey. You are a fine one to talk about forum rules when you break them by resorting to calling people names. Why should your bible be respected when you won't respect other members of this site?

I've already seen you made God's fool list too. He says it, I believe it, therefore I say you are a fool on that basis. This isn't mere name calling. I am passing on God's perspective, which I accept as my own.

No, what you are doing is deliberately being offensive to other members of this board. Is this the way the Holy Spirit works?

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves wise they became fools.

That's what the bible says about you WS. That's not a personal attack either. I'm simply quoting what God says about you.

[Word_Swordsman]

So I screwed up a common addage. I still say this person insists on repeated denigrations, to atheists as a whole, and to me individually, I think it is unfair that I am unable to use this kind of hateful language against others, while they use it against me. If we are to have civil debate, then civil it should be. I have done my dead level best to try to stay within the confines of the forum rules but this poster has been able to spew his hatred time and again. So I ask for a moderator ruling on the language.

You have been consistently defying the rules of this sub forum all along. I had no option but to apply God's word, the Bible being immune from having to prove it true. You came in here unable to use the Bible against me, and you never will upstage me with the Bible. This comes back to the basic principle of what called for the scriptures about fools, to explain why atheists can't handle the word of God. You guys really, really asked for those words from me. Now you complain? Aligning your self with the atheists invites judgment from God's word as applicable to what you say here. All I wrote is directly appropriate to each of you atheist's challenges, practically 100% corrupted doctrines made up by mentally sick atheist authors who guide other atheists.

As an atheist, I am not able to say, "As atheists define fools." So I don't see why this could be allowed of theists. After the many previous examples, I say this is just hiding behind the words of others.

God said it, I believe it. If the shoe fits, wear it. My Bible deals with atheism quite extensively. We have a rule here that says you can't say the Bible is not an admissible source, yet many atheists have repeatedly defied that rule. You admit being an atheist, among several that castigate Christians and the Bible, yet have no support for your comments. I support my comments with documentation. All you can do is maybe quote other atheists, which is not impressive.

Denying the existence of God just makes you a fool, (but if you keep that belief all your life and never repent, then you join Satan in hell.)

I get the whole idea about going to hell, so that's not so much an issue for the particular way it was used, but I object to repeated uses of calling anyone a fool because they don't believe (me, you, this dude, whoever).

For a college course I had to ride in the back of a stake truck with 20 other students on a long field trip, with one guy far rear insisting on chewing some Red Man. He was obviously a fair novice, as each time he spit it came back on him and anyone near him. He didn't know to let it sloop over the side. Spitting caught the back draft.

As long as you insist on objecting to my use of the Bible and it's accepted authority for use in this debate, you not only violate a major rule, but you keep bringing on more talk of sin classifications, actually needed to sort out the blasphemy issue. If you can't do any more than deny the Bible, God, etc., then you would be wiser to go elsewhere. I invite you to go back, read what led up to the "fool talk". You asked for it, and now you don't want it.

I have no problem with prefacing these terms with 'God says,' what I have a problem with is this poster using these terms - dare I say - out of context.

You step in your pile again. Where did I depart from biblical context? I doubt you really know what that means.

Its my opinion he is doing so out of malice, and hiding behind the fact that these terms are used in the Bible.

Malice and obfuscation began with atheists here, and is present in literally every thread. The topic is blasphemy, and it is being defined using the Bible, from which the term came to start with. How in the world could an atheist define a biblical term without using the Bible? I think a lot of folks would like to read your answer on that. Atheism and it's propensity for denying God sometimes with cursing and absurdity is closely related to blasphemy, as well as insanity. It was you atheists who began misquoting me, stating stuff that was totally skewed from what I plainly wrote. The record is there in previous posts in this thread. Do a quick read-over, taking no more than about 20 minutes to actually read every line.

The Bible is the language of the theist, and God bless 'em for it, but my language is the language of the real world, and I am asked to suppress it when I come in here. If I am to suppress the worst of my language, then is it not reasonable to ask the theist to suppress the worst of his?

I say you are hiding behind some smoke and mirrors. The "language" I used was appropriate for our discussion, and was not yanked out of context. It is nearly impossible to find a proverb in Proverbs that is in context with all the other proverbs in any one chapter. They stand as a fairly random collection of sayings. This is proof you don't have a clue about the bible or what biblical context looks like.

Where is it said you can't use atheistic diatribe? Oh, maybe that includes words not suitable for the general public? Another peculiarity of atheists, having shameful words banned from use here? Why would any decent person want to employ language not fit for a debate forum, anyway? It IS stated the Bible is a source that will not need defending. I stand on it heavily, as God's words carry the power, not mine. But comes you, wanting to resort to base worldly words and foul language as an answer to the mighty word of God? Are you serious? I might enjoy reading some of those worldly words over your unsupported and quite juvenile opinions.

Thought its too late, I really don't want to have an Oprah moment over this, but I think I have a valid point, and I will stand to defend whats fair.

You've lost this discussion way back and won't regain grace talking like that. The Bible has pinned you down IN CONTEXT of this discussion, the scriptures used IN CONTEXT of their part of the whole of passages as also applicable here. You brought denials, false doctrines nobody out there subscribes to, more denials, and assorted nonsensical mutterings.