How do I get to heaven?

[acamp1]

Simple question.

[Goat]

The phrase "Emanual, might god , everlasting father' are from Isaiah 9:6, and are the royal names of Heziekel. It is not refereing to Jesus what so ever.?

Was that an opinion or what? From whom did you get this information?

I received that information from the Rabbi's. However, heziekel, literally means'
"God is strength" , or "Mighty God". Knowing some Hebrew does help.

Also. looking up some history in context does help.

The name "Heiekel" means "God is Strength." Is 9:6 is referring to the coming Messiah Jesus. Keeping it in context would be more helpful.

9:6 is not the Messiah Jesus. It is refering to King Ahaz son. Prophecy, in the Jewish sense, was lessons and signs for the immediate, not for something 700 years in the future.

[twobitsmedia]

The phrase "Emanual, might god , everlasting father' are from Isaiah 9:6, and are the royal names of Heziekel. It is not refereing to Jesus what so ever.?

Was that an opinion or what? From whom did you get this information?

I received that information from the Rabbi's. However, heziekel, literally means'
"God is strength" , or "Mighty God". Knowing some Hebrew does help.

Also. looking up some history in context does help.

The name "Heiekel" means "God is Strength." Is 9:6 is referring to the coming Messiah Jesus. Keeping it in context would be more helpful.

9:6 is not the Messiah Jesus. It is refering to King Ahaz son. Prophecy, in the Jewish sense, was lessons and signs for the immediate, not for something 700 years in the future.

I don't know where you are getting your information, but King Ahaz son was not given an "increase in government and peace of which there will be no end...and establish it forever and ever" (vs 7). I could understand it, though, if you are getting the interpretation from a Rabbi, as they are still waiting for the first coming. That would wipe out all Messianic prophecy into something else more immediate.

[Goat]

The phrase "Emanual, might god , everlasting father' are from Isaiah 9:6, and are the royal names of Heziekel. It is not refereing to Jesus what so ever.?

Was that an opinion or what? From whom did you get this information?

I received that information from the Rabbi's. However, heziekel, literally means'
"God is strength" , or "Mighty God". Knowing some Hebrew does help.

Also. looking up some history in context does help.

The name "Heiekel" means "God is Strength." Is 9:6 is referring to the coming Messiah Jesus. Keeping it in context would be more helpful.

9:6 is not the Messiah Jesus. It is refering to King Ahaz son. Prophecy, in the Jewish sense, was lessons and signs for the immediate, not for something 700 years in the future.

I don't know where you are getting your information, but King Ahaz son was not given an "increase in government and peace of which there will be no end...and establish it forever and ever" (vs 7). I could understand it, though, if you are getting the interpretation from a Rabbi, as they are still waiting for the first coming. That would wipe out all Messianic prophecy into something else more immediate.

I know you have to keep your illusions, but trying to retrofit something that happened 700 years later into the events that Ahaz and Heizekiel went through, that Isaiah recorded after the fact, is sort of irrelevant.

[twobitsmedia]

The phrase "Emanual, might god , everlasting father' are from Isaiah 9:6, and are the royal names of Heziekel. It is not refereing to Jesus what so ever.?

Was that an opinion or what? From whom did you get this information?

I received that information from the Rabbi's. However, heziekel, literally means'
"God is strength" , or "Mighty God". Knowing some Hebrew does help.

Also. looking up some history in context does help.

The name "Heiekel" means "God is Strength." Is 9:6 is referring to the coming Messiah Jesus. Keeping it in context would be more helpful.

9:6 is not the Messiah Jesus. It is refering to King Ahaz son. Prophecy, in the Jewish sense, was lessons and signs for the immediate, not for something 700 years in the future.

I don't know where you are getting your information, but King Ahaz son was not given an "increase in government and peace of which there will be no end...and establish it forever and ever" (vs 7). I could understand it, though, if you are getting the interpretation from a Rabbi, as they are still waiting for the first coming. That would wipe out all Messianic prophecy into something else more immediate.

I know you have to keep your illusions, but trying to retrofit something that happened 700 years later into the events that Ahaz and Heizekiel went through, that Isaiah recorded after the fact, is sort of irrelevant.

Why would Isaiah say "shall be" and "his name will be" for an event that already happened?

[adlemi]

The phrase "Emanual, might god , everlasting father' are from Isaiah 9:6, and are the royal names of Heziekel. It is not refereing to Jesus what so ever.?

Was that an opinion or what? From whom did you get this information?

I received that information from the Rabbi's. However, heziekel, literally means'
"God is strength" , or "Mighty God". Knowing some Hebrew does help.

Also. looking up some history in context does help.

On my part, we learned and got same from the Lord God Jesus Christ himself in a similar way Paul did got the teachings from HIm. By the way, are you referring to the Israel Rabbis of today? Did you ask them also as from whom did they get that from?

[Goat]

The phrase "Emanual, might god , everlasting father' are from Isaiah 9:6, and are the royal names of Heziekel. It is not refereing to Jesus what so ever.?

Was that an opinion or what? From whom did you get this information?

I received that information from the Rabbi's. However, heziekel, literally means'
"God is strength" , or "Mighty God". Knowing some Hebrew does help.

Also. looking up some history in context does help.

The name "Heiekel" means "God is Strength." Is 9:6 is referring to the coming Messiah Jesus. Keeping it in context would be more helpful.

9:6 is not the Messiah Jesus. It is refering to King Ahaz son. Prophecy, in the Jewish sense, was lessons and signs for the immediate, not for something 700 years in the future.

I don't know where you are getting your information, but King Ahaz son was not given an "increase in government and peace of which there will be no end...and establish it forever and ever" (vs 7). I could understand it, though, if you are getting the interpretation from a Rabbi, as they are still waiting for the first coming. That would wipe out all Messianic prophecy into something else more immediate.

I know you have to keep your illusions, but trying to retrofit something that happened 700 years later into the events that Ahaz and Heizekiel went through, that Isaiah recorded after the fact, is sort of irrelevant.

Why would Isaiah say "shall be" and "his name will be" for an event that already happened?

Christian mistranslations. The Hebrew is in the perfect tense, which means it is for completed actions, not for future actions. If you read , for example the JPS version that is not the one based on the KJV, you will see that it is 'has been born to us', and 'has been named'.

[twobitsmedia]

The phrase "Emanual, might god , everlasting father' are from Isaiah 9:6, and are the royal names of Heziekel. It is not refereing to Jesus what so ever.?

Was that an opinion or what? From whom did you get this information?

I received that information from the Rabbi's. However, heziekel, literally means'
"God is strength" , or "Mighty God". Knowing some Hebrew does help.

Also. looking up some history in context does help.

The name "Heiekel" means "God is Strength." Is 9:6 is referring to the coming Messiah Jesus. Keeping it in context would be more helpful.

9:6 is not the Messiah Jesus. It is refering to King Ahaz son. Prophecy, in the Jewish sense, was lessons and signs for the immediate, not for something 700 years in the future.

I don't know where you are getting your information, but King Ahaz son was not given an "increase in government and peace of which there will be no end...and establish it forever and ever" (vs 7). I could understand it, though, if you are getting the interpretation from a Rabbi, as they are still waiting for the first coming. That would wipe out all Messianic prophecy into something else more immediate.

I know you have to keep your illusions, but trying to retrofit something that happened 700 years later into the events that Ahaz and Heizekiel went through, that Isaiah recorded after the fact, is sort of irrelevant.

Why would Isaiah say "shall be" and "his name will be" for an event that already happened?

Christian mistranslations. The Hebrew is in the perfect tense, which means it is for completed actions, not for future actions. If you read , for example the JPS version that is not the one based on the KJV, you will see that it is 'has been born to us', and 'has been named'.

Interesting. I always wondered how the Jewish translators explained away prophecy. We will just have to agree to disagree.

[Goat]

Interesting. I always wondered how the Jewish translators explained away prophecy. We will just have to agree to disagree.

YOu will see the past tense in some of the more modern. However, I did find this
explaination in a q&a

http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-he ... 31444.html


> The Jewish Study Bible says the past tense verbs in Isaiah 9:6
> (actually Isaiah 9:5 in the Hebrew text) could be an example of a "prophetic
> past." That is, the verse is actually a future messianic prophecy and the
> verbs are in the past tense because these future events "are as good as
> done" (p. 801). Could someone give me a few examples of this Hebrew
> "prophetic past" in other passages besides Isaiah 9?
>
> I know we have had extended discussions here about Hebrew tenses
> and my intention here is not to open up that whole can of worms once again.
> So perhaps I should rephrase the question like this: Could someone on this
> list who believes there is such a thing as a "prophetic past" tense in
> Hebrew please provide me with an example or two of this phenomenon in the
> Hebrew Bible?
>

HH: It is a very common use of the perfect in Hebrew and receives a good
explanation in standard biblical-Hebrew grammars. In Waltke and
O'Connor, _Biblical Hebrew Syntax, it is mentioned in sections 29.5 and
30.5.1e. The passages they cite as examples are Numbers 24:17 and Isaiah
8:23-9:1. In Gesenius-Kautszch-Cowley's Hebrew Grammar it is touched on
in section 106n, with such examples as Isa 5:13; 9:1ff.; 10:28; 11:9
(after KY), 19:7; Job 5:20; 2 Chron 20:37.

Yours,
Harold Holmyard


Me, I would rather accept a rabbi who has been trained in biblical Hebrew, vrs a so called 'messanic' temple, or christian translators.

I will also point out that the more modern Christian translations give Isaiah 9:6 in past tense too, such as the NIV.

[Heresiarch]

Heaven is a mythopoetic analog/foreshadowing of physical space.

And when he had said this, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, and said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven?"

Acts 1:9-11

Just where were they looking? Where did J.C. go?

The weightless, neotenous angels are imaginal representations of the extraterrestrials that our descendents are programmed to become. Getting to Heaven is an engineering, not a religious challenge. Religion is the (extremely enlightening) psychological dimension of the historical program. But the eschatological mode will be realized by technology not faith. This psychological dimension is elaborated at http://www.starlarvae.org/Star_Larvae_A ... igion.html

[Hugh]

Think positive... be happy and enjoy your remaining years .... and you're in heaven.
.
Desperate person .... living in glooms is in hell.