Did Jesus Really Pay The Penalty For Our Sins?

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
myth-one.com
Savant
Posts: 7466
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:16 pm
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 98 times
Contact:

Did Jesus Really Pay The Penalty For Our Sins?

Post #1

Post by myth-one.com »

Question: Did Jesus Pay The Penalty For Our Sins?

Christians today generally accept that nonbelievers will suffer eternally in the fires of hell for their sins. But if the wages of sin is eternity in hellfire, Jesus did not pay the penalty for our sins. He simply died! Where did we go wrong?

Both testaments of the Bible contain covenants or wills between man and God. The inheritance or reward under either covenant is eternal life. The path to eternal life under the Old Testament was obeying all of God's commandments. That is, you must never sin because the wages of sin is death. However, this meant that no man could inherit eternal life because all men sinned.

What if another person could serve the penalty for our sins? For this to occur that person could not already be under the same judgment. If you are already under a death sentence you cannot substitute your life for a friend who is also on death row. In addition, you must serve out his full sentence. Under the New Testament Jesus suffered our punishment of death so that we could inherit eternal life. The wages of sin is death, but He never sinned. Therefore, His life could be given for ours.

But if humans are born with immortal souls the punishment must be changed since the soul lives forever! The punishment for sinning can no longer be the second death as taught in the scriptures. Thus, it has been changed to eternal punishment in hellfire! But if that is the case Jesus Christ did not pay our penalty! Jesus should presently be burning in hell and should stay there for all eternity since this is the punishment mainstream Christianity assigns to mankind for sinning!

This concept that nonbelievers will burn alive in hellfire eternally and never die, trivializes the death of Jesus Christ! In comparison to what present day theology holds in store for one nonbeliever, Jesus' crucifixion on the cross is a mosquito bite! Being crucified daily for a thousand years is preferable to burning alive for eternity. The true punishment for your sin is the second death which is eternal. You never live again after suffering the second death. It is the death which is eternal not the act and torture of dying by fire!

Jesus did indeed serve our penalty and He was a valid sacrifice since He was innocent of any sin! We can now escape the second death and live forever thanks to His sacrifice. Jesus died a physical death as a human on the cross. Man's second and permanent death is also a physical death. Humans who fulfill the requirement of the New Testament covenant do not suffer the second death since their penalty for sinning has already been paid. That New Testament requirement for inheriting eternal life is believing in Jesus as your Savior:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)
Those believing in the immortal soul must interpret perish in John 3:16 to mean something other than death since their soul will never perish! One common erroneous interpretation is that it means "spiritual death" or "eternal separation from God." But if the penalty for sinning is eternal separation from God, then once again Jesus did not serve our punishment! Jesus is not separated from God! He is one third of the Trinity of God!

There are some topics in the Bible which are difficult to understand. This is not one of them! Jesus paid the price for our sins. What are the wages of our sinning? Death! What did Jesus do? He died on the cross. In fact, Jesus Christ is the only human to qualify for eternal life under the Old Testament. That is, the wages of sin is death but He never sinned, so He did not have to die. He laid down His life willingly.

The plan of salvation as designed by God is so incredibly simple! The wages of sin is death and all have sinned and are facing the second death. God sends His Son to earth as a human and Jesus lives a sinless life so He does not have to die. Therefore, He can lay down His life for ours. He willingly dies in our stead for our sins. Humans who accept Jesus as their Savior gain eternal life since Jesus has already paid the price for their sinning. Those who do not accept Jesus as their Savior must pay the penalty for their sinning which is perishing in the second death. The wages of sin is death.

However, man believes he is immortal due to use of the word "soul" in the King James Bible and Satan's lie that, "Ye shall not surely die." Man's new plan of salvation becomes extremely complicated as he designs myths to create new punishments for sinning. The true punishment of death as defined by God is no longer viable because man's "soul" lives forever and cannot die!

But no matter what mythical punishments men create to protect the immortal soul myth, none of them pass one simple and obvious test. Jesus Christ had to pay the full penalty for our sinning in order to become our Savior. He had to serve our full punishment. What did He do? He died! He died! Read it once again, He died! The wages of sin is death, and He died in our place. He is not burning in hell for eternity, He is not eternally separated from God, He did not have to write, "I will not sin" one trillion times, or any other ridiculous punishment! He died. Those who choose not to believe in Jesus must pay their own wages for sinning. Therefore, they die! Can this be any simpler?

If you are a Christian, you will have (future tense) eternal life! However, Christians believing the false theology of the immortal soul will be asked some embarrassing questions upon meeting Jesus face to face! How could they believe that Jesus, who created everything, would create a system whereby one individual would suffer pain and horror for eternity in the fires of hell? What part of "God is love," did they not understand? Here is our Savior who died that we might have eternal life. Yet, shortly after He departs the earth, most are convinced that all mankind is born with eternal life! Here is our Savior who taught nonviolence, turn the other cheek, love your enemies, do good to them that hurt you. Yet, shortly after His departure, most are convinced that His plan is for untold masses of humanity to suffer indescribable pain for eternity! If this was in His plan, why did He not mention it in detail while He was a human on earth? Granted, most of us were taught this false theology from birth. Even so, at some point when we began to reason on our own we should have seen the obvious flaw. Begin now to prepare your answers to these questions which will surely be asked!

Taken by permission from http://www.have-no-fear.com

myth-one.com
Savant
Posts: 7466
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:16 pm
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 98 times
Contact:

Post #81

Post by myth-one.com »

Good Morning DL,

It appears that the scriptures hold no attraction for you. Regardless of what they state, you live in the fantasies you produce which have no backing in the scriptures. If they did, I expect that you would quote the scriptures supporting your fictions.

Have a nice day,

Myth-one.com

User avatar
Greatest I Am
Banned
Banned
Posts: 3043
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:04 am

Post #82

Post by Greatest I Am »

myth-one.com wrote:Good Morning DL,

It appears that the scriptures hold no attraction for you. Regardless of what they state, you live in the fantasies you produce which have no backing in the scriptures. If they did, I expect that you would quote the scriptures supporting your fictions.

Have a nice day,

Myth-one.com
Both scripture and logic have to come into play.
If they cannot, then logic must win. Spirituality and God must be logical.

Regards
DL

myth-one.com
Savant
Posts: 7466
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:16 pm
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 98 times
Contact:

Post #83

Post by myth-one.com »

Myth-one.com wrote:It appears that the scriptures hold no attraction for you. Regardless of what they state, you live in the fantasies you produce which have no backing in the scriptures. If they did, I expect that you would quote the scriptures supporting your fictions.
In reply, Greatest I Am wrote:Both scripture and logic have to come into play.
If they cannot, then logic must win. Spirituality and God must be logical.
The world's great religions all have their "book" upon which their beliefs are based and supported. Christians have the Bible, Muslims have the Koran, Jews have the Talmud, etc. But you look to none of these to support your new religion of logic first/scripture second.

Question: Are you going to write your own book?

User avatar
Greatest I Am
Banned
Banned
Posts: 3043
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:04 am

Post #84

Post by Greatest I Am »

myth-one.com wrote:
Myth-one.com wrote:It appears that the scriptures hold no attraction for you. Regardless of what they state, you live in the fantasies you produce which have no backing in the scriptures. If they did, I expect that you would quote the scriptures supporting your fictions.
In reply, Greatest I Am wrote:Both scripture and logic have to come into play.
If they cannot, then logic must win. Spirituality and God must be logical.
The world's great religions all have their "book" upon which their beliefs are based and supported. Christians have the Bible, Muslims have the Koran, Jews have the Talmud, etc. But you look to none of these to support your new religion of logic first/scripture second.

Question: Are you going to write your own book?
Not so.
I have said that the Bible is the best road map.
Jesus the best guide.

I read the Bible making God a winning God who does not fail.
Most read it the way that makes God bungle Heaven before creating earth with rebellious angels. Then He screws up Genesis and has to kick man out of the garden. Then that is still not good enough He has to kill millions in a flood.

Why would you want me to read the Bible in a way that makes God the looser that I have just described.

Why can my God not be a winning God who does things right.

Regards
DL

myth-one.com
Savant
Posts: 7466
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:16 pm
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 98 times
Contact:

Post #85

Post by myth-one.com »

Greatest I Am wrote:I have said that the Bible is the best road map.
Jesus the best guide.
I do not recall those statements, but will accept that you did.
Greatest I Am wrote:I read the Bible making God a winning God who does not fail.
Most read it the way that makes God bungle Heaven before creating earth with rebellious angels.
But there were rebellious angels! This does not mean that God failed. Duh? The angels failed.
Greatest I Am wrote: Then He screws up Genesis and has to kick man out of the garden.
No He does not! God created everything as "good." So He did not screw up Genesis. Good is not the same as "screwed up!" If God declared the Genesis creation "good" when it was really "screwed up" then God is a liar:
Genesis 1:31 wrote:And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.
Do you still want to call Genesis "screwed up" if it means you are calling God a liar?

If I had to choose between God's evaluation of the Genesis creation and yours, I will accept that God is correct that it was good, and you are wrong that it was "screwed up!"

And He did not have to kick them out, it was the best possible course of action!

User avatar
Greatest I Am
Banned
Banned
Posts: 3043
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:04 am

Post #86

Post by Greatest I Am »

myth-one.com wrote:
Greatest I Am wrote:I have said that the Bible is the best road map.
Jesus the best guide.
I do not recall those statements, but will accept that you did.
Greatest I Am wrote:I read the Bible making God a winning God who does not fail.
Most read it the way that makes God bungle Heaven before creating earth with rebellious angels.
But there were rebellious angels! This does not mean that God failed. Duh? The angels failed.

GIA wrote
If you will notice that every time God adjusts man, the higher the numbers get. Plus, it does not work. Obviously, if n adjustment had been required then He would have done it soonest. He did not and therefore we must conclude that none was or is necessary.
Greatest I Am wrote: Then He screws up Genesis and has to kick man out of the garden.
No He does not!

GIA wrote
Then we are there.

God created everything as "good." So He did not screw up Genesis. Good is not the same as "screwed up!" If God declared the Genesis creation "good" when it was really "screwed up" then God is a liar:
Genesis 1:31 wrote:And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.
GIA wrote
You started with babbling so I moved to here.

Do you still want to call Genesis "screwed up" if it means you are calling God a liar?

Gia wrote
Most read it as screwed up. I think it was Perfect. Then as Now.

If I had to choose between God's evaluation of the Genesis creation and yours, I will accept that God is correct that it was good, and you are wrong that it was "screwed up!"

And He did not have to kick them out, it was the best possible course of action!
It was better than Good. It was Perfect. God was being humble and is waiting for us to remind Him that He cannot do good, He ca only do Perfect.

True Christians will recognize this.

Regards
DL

twobitsmedia

Post #87

Post by twobitsmedia »

Greatest I Am wrote:
myth-one.com wrote:
Greatest I Am wrote:I have said that the Bible is the best road map.
Jesus the best guide.
I do not recall those statements, but will accept that you did.
Greatest I Am wrote:I read the Bible making God a winning God who does not fail.
Most read it the way that makes God bungle Heaven before creating earth with rebellious angels.
But there were rebellious angels! This does not mean that God failed. Duh? The angels failed.

GIA wrote
If you will notice that every time God adjusts man, the higher the numbers get. Plus, it does not work. Obviously, if n adjustment had been required then He would have done it soonest. He did not and therefore we must conclude that none was or is necessary.
Greatest I Am wrote: Then He screws up Genesis and has to kick man out of the garden.
No He does not!

GIA wrote
Then we are there.

God created everything as "good." So He did not screw up Genesis. Good is not the same as "screwed up!" If God declared the Genesis creation "good" when it was really "screwed up" then God is a liar:
Genesis 1:31 wrote:And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.
GIA wrote
You started with babbling so I moved to here.

Do you still want to call Genesis "screwed up" if it means you are calling God a liar?

Gia wrote
Most read it as screwed up. I think it was Perfect. Then as Now.

If I had to choose between God's evaluation of the Genesis creation and yours, I will accept that God is correct that it was good, and you are wrong that it was "screwed up!"

And He did not have to kick them out, it was the best possible course of action!
It was better than Good. It was Perfect. God was being humble and is waiting for us to remind Him that He cannot do good, He ca only do Perfect.

True Christians will recognize this.

Regards
DL
I must not be a True Christian.

User avatar
Greatest I Am
Banned
Banned
Posts: 3043
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:04 am

Post #88

Post by Greatest I Am »

twobitsmedia wrote:
Greatest I Am wrote:
myth-one.com wrote:
Greatest I Am wrote:I have said that the Bible is the best road map.
Jesus the best guide.
I do not recall those statements, but will accept that you did.
Greatest I Am wrote:I read the Bible making God a winning God who does not fail.
Most read it the way that makes God bungle Heaven before creating earth with rebellious angels.
But there were rebellious angels! This does not mean that God failed. Duh? The angels failed.

GIA wrote
If you will notice that every time God adjusts man, the higher the numbers get. Plus, it does not work. Obviously, if n adjustment had been required then He would have done it soonest. He did not and therefore we must conclude that none was or is necessary.
Greatest I Am wrote: Then He screws up Genesis and has to kick man out of the garden.
No He does not!

GIA wrote
Then we are there.

God created everything as "good." So He did not screw up Genesis. Good is not the same as "screwed up!" If God declared the Genesis creation "good" when it was really "screwed up" then God is a liar:
Genesis 1:31 wrote:And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.
GIA wrote
You started with babbling so I moved to here.

Do you still want to call Genesis "screwed up" if it means you are calling God a liar?

Gia wrote
Most read it as screwed up. I think it was Perfect. Then as Now.

If I had to choose between God's evaluation of the Genesis creation and yours, I will accept that God is correct that it was good, and you are wrong that it was "screwed up!"

And He did not have to kick them out, it was the best possible course of action!
It was better than Good. It was Perfect. God was being humble and is waiting for us to remind Him that He cannot do good, He ca only do Perfect.

True Christians will recognize this.

Regards
DL
I must not be a True Christian.
What holds you back.

Regards
DL

twobitsmedia

Post #89

Post by twobitsmedia »

Greatest I Am wrote:
twobitsmedia wrote:
Greatest I Am wrote:
myth-one.com wrote:
Greatest I Am wrote:I have said that the Bible is the best road map.
Jesus the best guide.
I do not recall those statements, but will accept that you did.
Greatest I Am wrote:I read the Bible making God a winning God who does not fail.
Most read it the way that makes God bungle Heaven before creating earth with rebellious angels.
But there were rebellious angels! This does not mean that God failed. Duh? The angels failed.

GIA wrote
If you will notice that every time God adjusts man, the higher the numbers get. Plus, it does not work. Obviously, if n adjustment had been required then He would have done it soonest. He did not and therefore we must conclude that none was or is necessary.
Greatest I Am wrote: Then He screws up Genesis and has to kick man out of the garden.
No He does not!

GIA wrote
Then we are there.

God created everything as "good." So He did not screw up Genesis. Good is not the same as "screwed up!" If God declared the Genesis creation "good" when it was really "screwed up" then God is a liar:
Genesis 1:31 wrote:And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.
GIA wrote
You started with babbling so I moved to here.

Do you still want to call Genesis "screwed up" if it means you are calling God a liar?

Gia wrote
Most read it as screwed up. I think it was Perfect. Then as Now.

If I had to choose between God's evaluation of the Genesis creation and yours, I will accept that God is correct that it was good, and you are wrong that it was "screwed up!"

And He did not have to kick them out, it was the best possible course of action!
It was better than Good. It was Perfect. God was being humble and is waiting for us to remind Him that He cannot do good, He ca only do Perfect.

True Christians will recognize this.

Regards
DL
I must not be a True Christian.
What holds you back.

Regards
DL
I can't make up a God like you can I guess.

myth-one.com
Savant
Posts: 7466
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:16 pm
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 98 times
Contact:

Post #90

Post by myth-one.com »

Greatest I Am wrote a lot of stuff which I did not understand, then regarding the Genesis creation he wrote: It was better than Good. It was Perfect. God was being humble and is waiting for us to remind Him that He cannot do good, He ca only do Perfect.

True Christians will recognize this.
God does not need man to remind Him that He "cannot do good." That is so comical. Once again, if you claim that God can only do perfect, then you are claiming that God lied when He declared His creation to be "good." That's your third time. Why do you insist on beating a dead horse!

True Christians will recognize that your statement above is ridiculous. God does not need man to remind Him of anything!

Post Reply