A New Nation and a New Prophet: Re-examining Old- and New-Testament Texts

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A New Nation and a New Prophet: Re-examining Old- and New-Testament Texts

Post #1

Post by mms20102 »

In the Name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful

Friends, to keep the conversation clear and strictly text‑based, I propose we follow five prophetic milestones. After each milestone comes one focused question. Let’s address them in sequence—no flooding, no diversions, Scripture only.


  • The Unrevoked Promise to Ishmael
Genesis 17 :20 – “As for Ishmael, I have heard you… I will make him a great nation.”
Nowhere is this promise annulled. Later, Isaiah envisions praise and accepted offerings from Kedar and Nebaioth (Isa 42 :11; 60 :6‑7).

Q‑1: Through what historical development does that “great nation” promise reach its intended fullness?



  • Paran—A Second Dawn of Revelation
Deuteronomy 33 :2 – “The LORD… shone forth from Mount Paran.”
Habakkuk 3 :3 repeats the scene. Paran lies in the Arabian wilderness.

Q‑2: Which later revelation best satisfies the description of God’s light shining from Paran?



  • The Prophet “Like Moses” (Deut 18 :15‑19)

Key features:

risen after Moses,

bearer of a decisive law,

must be listened to on pain of judgment.


Q‑3: Who, according to the canonical texts, most completely matches that profile?




  • The Comforter / Spirit of Truth (John 14‑16)
Jesus promises “another Comforter” who will come only after His departure, “speak what he hears,” and guide into all truth.
The Holy Spirit was already active before the Ascension (Luke 3 :22; John 20 :22).

Q‑4: Who is the promised Comforter - distinct messenger who completes universal guidance?



  • The Stone‑Kingdom & “A Nation Producing Its Fruit”
Daniel 2 ends with a Stone that shatters the statue‑empires and becomes a mountain filling the earth (Dan 2 :34‑35, 44‑45).
Jesus echoes the hand‑over:
“The kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation producing its fruit.” (Matt 21 :43)

Q‑5: Which empires did the “Stone” of Daniel’s vision topple, and today, which nation best displays the fruits Jesus spoke of—justice, a lived‑out revealed law, and unwavering devotion to the one God?




Guidelines

1. One question at a time. We start with Q‑1; only after it’s answered do we move to Q‑2.


2. Primary texts only—Torah, Prophets, Gospels, Qur’an. No tertiary links.


3. Keep it concise. One tight paragraph beats a page of quotations.


Supporting verses about a coming prophet from Quran

"Our Lord! Raise from among them a messenger who will recite to them Your revelations, teach them the Book and wisdom, and purify them. Indeed, You ˹alone˺ are the Almighty, All-Wise.” (Abraham and Ishmael) Q 2:129

"Just like We have sent among you a messenger from yourselves reciting to you Our verses and purifying you and teaching you the Book and wisdom and teaching you that which you did not know." Q 2:151


"when Allah made a covenant with the prophets, ˹saying,˺ “Now that I have given you the Book and wisdom, if there comes to you a messenger confirming what you have, you must believe in him and support him.” He added, “Do you affirm this covenant and accept this commitment?” They said, “Yes, we do.” Allah said, “Then bear witness, and I too am a Witness with you.” Q 3:81


"the ones who follow the Messenger, the unlettered [Gentile] Prophet, whose description they find in their Torah and the Gospel. He commands them to do good and forbids them from evil, permits for them what is lawful and forbids to them what is impure, and relieves them from their burdens and the shackles that bound them. those who believe in him, honor and support him, and follow the light sent down to him will be successful."
Q 7:157




"It is He who has sent among the unlettered [Gentiles] a Messenger from themselves reciting to them His verses and purifying them and teaching them the Book and wisdom - although they were before in clear error"
Q 62:2





May God help us seek truth and never shame us for doing so.

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Re: A New Nation and a New Prophet: Re-examining Old- and New-Testament Texts

Post #21

Post by 1213 »

mms20102 wrote: Sun May 11, 2025 7:48 am [Replying to 1213 in post #19]

Before moving on, have we concluded the previous points?
Can you first tell, why the prayers are directed to the stone?
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Re: A New Nation and a New Prophet: Re-examining Old- and New-Testament Texts

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Re: A New Nation and a New Prophet: Re-examining Old- and New-Testament Texts

Post #23

Post by 1213 »

mms20102 wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 4:06 am [Replying to 1213 in post #21]

Which stone?!
The Kaaba stone.
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Re: A New Nation and a New Prophet: Re-examining Old- and New-Testament Texts

Post #24

Post by mms20102 »

1213 wrote: Tue May 13, 2025 11:52 pm
mms20102 wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 4:06 am [Replying to 1213 in post #21]

Which stone?!
The Kaaba stone.
The Kaaba is not a stone

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Re: A New Nation and a New Prophet: Re-examining Old- and New-Testament Texts

Post #25

Post by 1213 »

mms20102 wrote: Thu May 15, 2025 9:19 am
1213 wrote: Tue May 13, 2025 11:52 pm
mms20102 wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 4:06 am [Replying to 1213 in post #21]

Which stone?!
The Kaaba stone.
The Kaaba is not a stone
I was speaking of this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone

You think it is not a stone?
My new book can be read freely from here:
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Re: A New Nation and a New Prophet: Re-examining Old- and New-Testament Texts

Post #26

Post by mms20102 »

1213 wrote: Thu May 15, 2025 10:51 pm
mms20102 wrote: Thu May 15, 2025 9:19 am
1213 wrote: Tue May 13, 2025 11:52 pm
mms20102 wrote: Mon May 12, 2025 4:06 am [Replying to 1213 in post #21]

Which stone?!
The Kaaba stone.
The Kaaba is not a stone
I was speaking of this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone

You think it is not a stone?
[Replying to 1213 in post #25]

The black is stone is not Kaaba it's merely one stone that's completing the house of God so if your argument that we pray toward this stone please show me the evidence

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Re: A New Nation and a New Prophet: Re-examining Old- and New-Testament Texts

Post #27

Post by 1213 »

mms20102 wrote: Fri May 16, 2025 7:38 am The black is stone is not Kaaba it's merely one stone that's completing the house of God so if your argument that we pray toward this stone please show me the evidence
The evidence is the image in post #10.

viewtopic.php?p=1171031#p1171031
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Re: A New Nation and a New Prophet: Re-examining Old- and New-Testament Texts

Post #28

Post by mms20102 »

1213 wrote: Sun May 18, 2025 12:47 pm
mms20102 wrote: Fri May 16, 2025 7:38 am The black is stone is not Kaaba it's merely one stone that's completing the house of God so if your argument that we pray toward this stone please show me the evidence
The evidence is the image in post #10.

viewtopic.php?p=1171031#p1171031
Unless you can provide concrete evidence, the photo remains open to multiple interpretations. Escaping to side discussions won’t rescue your failure—even in those side topics.

Let’s return to what matters: worship in Islam is strictly for God alone. Acts like kissing the Black Stone are not acts of worship, and this is confirmed by the very companions of the Prophet ﷺ.

‘Abis ibn Rabi’ah reported that he saw ʿUmar kissing the Stone and saying:

“I know for sure that you are a stone which can neither benefit nor harm, and had I not seen the Messenger of Allah ﷺ kissing you, I would not have kissed you.”

(Bukhari & Muslim — Mishkat al-Masabih 2589, Book 10, Hadith 82)

This is decisive: it was never about the stone itself. It’s about obedience to the Prophet’s example—not belief in the stone’s power. Your attempt to associate this with idolatry collapses under the weight of authentic Islamic sources. Try again

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Re: A New Nation and a New Prophet: Re-examining Old- and New-Testament Texts

Post #29

Post by 1213 »

mms20102 wrote: Sun May 18, 2025 7:35 pm ...Acts like kissing the Black Stone are not acts of worship...
Do you know why it is done?
My new book can be read freely from here:
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Old version can be read from here:
http://web.archive.org/web/202212010403 ... x_eng.html

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