What's wrong with being gay?

[Daedalus X]

This thread is a continuation of an off topic conversation from here.

First, I think that we all agree that it's important to promote understanding, respect, and equality for all individuals, regardless of their sexual orientation. Everyone should be treated with dignity and allowed to express their identity without fear of discrimination or harm.


Question for debate is LGTBQIA2S+ a harmless social contagion, or are there serious unintended consequences awaiting the individuals and societies that are going down this road?

[oldbadger]

[Replying to oldbadger in post #393]

oldbadger Ah..... So you are very similar in beliefs a Jehovah's Witness?

AF: Not really. JW is just another organized religion, that has some beliefs which are scriptural (e.g. the pledge of allegiance is idol worship, and X-mas and Ishtar/Easter are pagan holidays) mixed together with some that are not, like going from house-to-house (Luke 10:7) and attending their version of church (Matt. 6:5-8). The same story as with ALL organized religion.

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oldbadger I did wonder.
Most JWs around here have similar beliefs to you but they are much more restrained about how they condemn homosexuality. Of course they are not racists so I ask you about that as well?

AF: IF it is correctly understood that we are all spiritual-Beings (Souls) -- who are not indigenous to this planet, much less to some specific region or country -- and that we are only temporarily incarnated inside of the human animal body (vessel) we see in the mirror, then what difference would the skin colour, human ethnicity or nationality of that temporary vessel/vehicle make?

Are You The Car or The Driver

And again....your opinion coincides with the JWs. They are not racist either.
But they aren't so extreme in the way that they condemn gays, etc.

[FrankieRelax]

And here is what our infallible Creator has to say on the subject of homosexuality
(shared with those capable of rational thought):

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [homosexuality] [is] ABOMINATION.

the Bible lists over 90 abominations, including things like having a Christmas tree, wearing poly cotton blend shirts and having a tattoo. No one seems to be into condemning those other abominations

and you should also realize that an abomination is not the equivalent of sin. Committing an abomination just made one ritually unclean a state of temporary impurity that prevents individuals from engaging in certain religious practices or entering sacred spaces like temples or tabernacles. to be ritually clean again you had to basically pay a fine at the temple and wash your feet there.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: They shall SURELY be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.

Leviticus contains over 600 laws on everything form dealing with slaves to shaving to how to dress. Do you follow all the laws of Leviticus? I really doubt it. Christians aren't supposed to. Christians are under the new covenant.

Romans 1:18-25
1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all unGodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the Truth as unrighteousness;

Does that include those who lie about homosexuals?

1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest to them; for God hath showed [it] unto them.
1:20 For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [Him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations (Gen. 6:5), and their foolish heart was darkened.
1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
1:25 Who changed the Truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, Who is blessed for ever. Amen.
1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections:

Breaking down what Paul was saying and looking at the translations we need to start with the phrase “vile afflictions.” The translation of this phrase is relatively straight forward but defining just what is a “vile affliction” is where the problems arise.
In the original Greek, the phrase for “vile affliction” áthlia thlípsi does not mean "passions" or "lust" as people experienced in normal, day-to-day living -- the type of emotion that one encounters in a marriage or sexually active relationship. It refers to the "frenzied state of mind that many ancient mystery cults induced in worshipers by means of wine, drugs and music." It seems to describe the results of ritual sexual orgies as performed in many Pagan settings at the time. Paul seems to be referring here to Pagan "fertility cult worship prevalent in Rome" at the time.

In a broader sense the meaning of “vile afflictions” referees to ecstatic trance states described by anthropologists (Ref: Mircea Eliade). These ecstatic trances were part of pretty much every religion, such states were generally achieved by religious leaders but lay people could engage in them as well, the process was to connect to the spirit world for healing and blessing. The Modern Christian version would be “speaking in tongues” and the meditative state achieved in ritualistic prayer. Originally the condemnation was against any religion but the one Paul was founding, but like so many other non-Christian traditions, ecstasy found their way into Christianity.

for even their women did change the natural use into that which is AGAINST nature

On to the word “natural” In the original Greek it is the word "phooskos", meaning "inborn", "produced by nature" , "agreeable to nature". It is referring directly to what is “natural” for the individual him/her self. Please remember that the society Paul is writing to, both Roman and Greek, considered homosexuality be natural. What would have been considered unnatural for Paul’s audience would have been to force oneself to go against one’s own nature, to pretend to be something one is not. This going against one’s nature in pursuit of a relationship is referred to as being unnatural by many writers of the era.

On to the word “unnatural” or “against nature.”

Paul specifically used the Greek word paraphysi here, which does not mean "to go against the law(s) of nature", that would be ενάντια στο νόμο or cenántia sto nómo . Rather it means to engage in action(s) which is uncharacteristic or against the nature of that person or more simply an individual denying his/her true nature. An example of the word paraphysin is used in Romans 1 1:24, where God acts in an uncharacteristic (paraphysin) way to accept the Gentiles. To claim that paraphysi means unnatural would indicate that God was acting in an unnatural way. Which is impossible.
ενάντια στο νόμο = against the law

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the ABOMINABLE, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with Fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

the maybe you should consider being more honest regarding what you claim about homosexuals