The 'Abomination of Desolation' was the Crucifixion...
Mark 13:14
"But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:"
That is what I believe.
The 'Abomination of Desolation' was the Crucifixion
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Re: The 'Abomination of Desolation' was the Crucifixion
Post #11I have not read this entire article yet, but I found their conclusion is the same as mine...
"Jesus prophesies the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple (13:2). His reference to the “abomination that causes desolation” (13:14) is a prophetic statement regarding the significance of his death in the light of his rejection as Messiah by the Jewish religious leaders."
https://nimer.ca/mark-1314-a-cryptic-pr ... %20leaders.
"Jesus prophesies the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple (13:2). His reference to the “abomination that causes desolation” (13:14) is a prophetic statement regarding the significance of his death in the light of his rejection as Messiah by the Jewish religious leaders."
https://nimer.ca/mark-1314-a-cryptic-pr ... %20leaders.
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Re: The 'Abomination of Desolation' was the Crucifixion
Post #12Basel12, you better check out the date you claim Moses set up the tabernacle in the wilderness. Moses lived 500 years before David, and David was 1000 years before the birth of Christ in 4 B.C., two years before the death of Herod the Great in 2 B.C.Base12 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 22, 2025 7:30 amThe blessing was for those that understood Daniel and Jesus and were therefore able to heed the warnings and leave Jerusalem before the siege happened.placebofactor wrote: ↑Mon Apr 21, 2025 5:43 pm When the temple was destroyed in 70 A.D., and over a million Jews were slaughtered, and thousands taken to Rome, what was the blessing Daniel speaks of? Verse 12, "Blessed is he that waits and comes to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days." There was no blessing.
They were blessed because they believed and were saved from that terrible fate.
The Book of Daniel is one long story. It begins in 606 B.C., when Daniel was taken captive, and continues through the centuries, from empire to empire, until Daniel 12:8, "To the time of the end." Daniel 12 does not end in 70 A.D. Check out the best Chronologists in all of Christendom: Usher, Hales, Lightfoot, and Sir Isaac Newton.
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Re: The 'Abomination of Desolation' was the Crucifixion
Post #13If the abomination was the execution of Christ and Jesus told his disciples to flee immediately upon seeing it why did the risen Christ subsequently direct his Apostles to return to Jerusalem and await the holy spirit?
.They could not immediately flee Jerusalem upon seeing his execution and at the same time stay in Jerusalem and await the spirit
Therefore the "abomination "(discusting thing) Jesus had referred to could not be his own execution.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: The 'Abomination of Desolation' was the Crucifixion
Post #14But I do not need to rely on them. Scripture makes the timeline plain and easy to understand in a single verse...placebofactor wrote: ↑Tue Apr 22, 2025 3:39 pm Check out the best Chronologists in all of Christendom: Usher, Hales, Lightfoot, and Sir Isaac Newton.
Revelation 12:6
"And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days."
The 'wilderness' is the same wilderness that the Israelites fled to in Exodus. The 'place prepared' is the Tabernacle. It is all laid out for us. No need for mental gymnastics.
It even goes further...
Revelation 12:15
"And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood."
The Serpent in this context is Pharaoh, the 'Dragon'...
Ezekiel 29:3
"Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself."
The 'flood' is the flood of ungodly men that pursued the Israelites. Earth helped and 'swallowed' Pharaoh's armies in the Red Sea...
Revelation 12:16
"And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth."
It is all there. This is not a future event as so many believe.
1260 is what God gave us, not man. I would rather believe the Bible.
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Re: The 'Abomination of Desolation' was the Crucifixion
Post #15Look at the word you just used. You wrote 'seeing'. You assume that 'seeing' only means what one physically does with their eyes. That is not always the case.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Thu Apr 24, 2025 2:23 pm If the abomination was the execution of Christ and Jesus told his disciples to flee immediately upon seeing it why did the risen Christ subsequently direct his Apostles to return to Jerusalem and await the holy spirit?
Study that word...
Strong's 3708: horaó
Usage: The Greek verb "horaó" primarily means "to see" or "to perceive." It encompasses both the physical act of seeing with the eyes and the metaphorical sense of perceiving or understanding with the mind. In the New Testament, "horaó" is often used to describe not only the act of seeing but also the deeper understanding or realization of spiritual truths. It can imply a revelation or insight granted by God.
Cultural and Historical Background: In the Greco-Roman world, seeing was often associated with knowledge and understanding. The act of seeing was not merely a physical experience but was also linked to intellectual and spiritual comprehension. In the Jewish context, seeing was often connected with divine revelation and prophecy. The ability to see or perceive spiritual truths was considered a gift from God, and prophets were often described as "seers."
3708 horáō – properly, see, often with metaphorical meaning: "to see with the mind" (i.e. spiritually see), i.e. perceive (with inward spiritual perception).
https://biblehub.com/greek/3708.htm
Mark 12:14 goes out of its way to make the reader understand that the word 'see' is to be understood in a *spiritual/revelatory* sense, not in a physical sense of seeing with the eyes. That is why the phrase "let him that readeth understand" was put there. We need to understand, not just 'see'.
In other words, the word 'see' implies a revelation or insight *granted by God*. Therefore, when the time came for the destruction of Jerusalem, God made his Elect 'see' i.e., percieve with the mind and understand Daniel's Prophecy. They were then to flee at that very moment.
Look at the word 'readeth'. It has the same theme of 'knowing' what one is reading...
Strong's 314: anaginóskó
Definition: To read, to recognize, to know again
https://biblehub.com/greek/314.htm
Those that truly understood the 1335 days knew exactly when to flee. Mark 13:14 and Matthew 24:15 is specifically referring to the 1335 days in Daniel (whoso readeth, let him understand). Not very many were able to put it all together.
Are we really to believe that Jesus was being Mr. Captain Obvious by saying "When you are surrounded by armies ready to kill you, you better run!". How is that even a Prophecy when it is common sense?
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Re: The 'Abomination of Desolation' was the Crucifixion
Post #16are you a mind reader? You ASSUME I mean "seeing" only means that one physically does with their eyes. I used the word in the same sense that Jesus did.Base12 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 26, 2025 1:03 amLook at the word you just used. You wrote 'seeing'. You assume that 'seeing' only means what one physically does with their eyes.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Thu Apr 24, 2025 2:23 pm If the abomination was the execution of Christ and Jesus told his disciples to flee immediately upon seeing it why did the risen Christ subsequently direct his Apostles to return to Jerusalem and await the holy spirit?
"So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains." Mark 13:14.
Now having settled the above, my point is as follows...
If the abomination was the execution of Christ and Jesus told his disciples to flee immediately upon seeing it why did the risen Christ subsequently direct his Apostles to return to Jerusalem and await the holy spirit?
.They could not immediately flee Jerusalem upon seeing his execution and at the same time stay in Jerusalem and await the spirit
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: The 'Abomination of Desolation' was the Crucifixion
Post #17WAS IT NOT OBVIOUS TO LEAVE A CITY IN THE FACE OF AN INVADING ARMY?
No. The obvious reaction to an invading army would be to retreat into the city to avoid capture. In the city were military forces and support and the authority would close the gates and afford their citizens protection against impeding danger. Walled cities (such as was Jerusalem (especially one as heavily fortified and strategically located as Jerusalem) would have been viewed as the people's best defense against and capture. From such a location, defending armies could launch an offensive and hopefully liberate their territory. People in the surrounding countryside would have recognized they had no chance to survive except from a strong defensive position and they would naturally withdraw INTO the city for protection.
What Jesus was directing was the exact opposite to "common sense" and since he indicated the city would be under siege, constitutes an outstanding prophecy the fulfilment of which testifies to biblical inspiration.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: The 'Abomination of Desolation' was the Crucifixion
Post #18Was either Jerusalem or the Temple a 'holy place' during the siege of 70AD?
Were the animal sacrifices, atonements, etc. that were still going on considered holy and acceptable to God during that time?
If the answer is 'yes', then the Crucifixion was pointless as it was supposed to do away with all of that.
How can you call Jerusalem and the Temple the 'holy place' when God's presence no longer dwelled there?
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Re: The 'Abomination of Desolation' was the Crucifixion
Post #19WHO OR WHAT WAS "THE HOLY PLACE"?
LUKE 21:20 , 21
However, when you see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near.21Then let those in Ju·deʹa begin fleeing to the mountains, let those in the midst of her leave, and let those in the countryside not enter into her
Compare ..LUKE 19:43
Because the days will come upon you when your enemies will build around you a fortification of pointed stakes and will encircle you and besiege you from every side.
MATTHEW 24:15, 16
Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken about by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place+ (let the reader use discernment), 16 then let those in Ju·deʹa begin fleeing to the mountains.+
MARK 13:14
However, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation+ standing where it should not be (let the reader use discernment), then let those in Ju·deʹa begin fleeing to the mountains
.Luke identifies "the holy place" specifically by name as JERUSALEM
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Wed Apr 30, 2025 8:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: The 'Abomination of Desolation' was the Crucifixion
Post #20Jesus did not say in whose eyes the city was considered "holy". Tha fact of the matter is that Jerusalem was referred to as "the holy city" and even though it had lost the privilegeof such a name some 35 years before, the Jewish people still viewed it as such in 70 CE. (Mt 4:5; 27:53)
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8