Thorn's in a rose bush

[placebofactor]

Can anyone ever explain how the Father can exist without having a beginning? Let me answer the question, NO! It doesn't make sense as men understand things, but God's ways are not our ways.

Question 2: Can anyone explain how Jesus existed without having a beginning? The same answer: NO! My Bible states that the Word, Jesus Christ, was WITH the Father before the creation, and the Word (Jesus) was God.

Revelation 13:8, "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

Decreed before the creation. Sinners, unbelievers and deniers, who remain on the earth in contrast to those in heaven shall worship the Lamb. It's the Lamb's book of life, not the Father's. So, it's the Lamb, Jesus Christ who will be worshipped.

In the counsel of the Godhead, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, declared Jesus Christ to be a "Lamb slain before the foundation of the world."

Because the Watchtower decided to corrupt John 1:1, and with great sorrow I say, millions have swallowed that lie hook line and sinker, and they continue to draw people away from the Lord Jesus Christ. It’s with their corrupted verse from a corrupted Bible, claiming, "The Word was a god." The only Bible in the world that makes Jesus Christ a god, except for 1 or 2 versions no one has ever seen or heard of.

2000 years of history denied by a group who came out of the woodwork 125 years ago. A group rejected by every mainline Christian church and organization throughout the World. But they do have bedfellows, Mormons, and Muslims who also claim Jesus is not God. They say, "He's a good man, a prophet, a god, maybe; but surely not "God."

Jehovah's Witnesses won’t admit their own Bible calls Jesus Jehovah in, Luke 2:11, "Which is Christ the Lord." Interpreted is, the Messiah is Jehovah." N.W.T. footnotes on Luke 2:11, 1984 edition. "Christ (the) Lord." Greek, Khristos' Kyrios. This expression might be a Greek rendering of the Hebrew ma-shi'ach Yeho-wah'. But they had to add, "Jehovah's Christ."

I love it, they say it "MIGHT BE!" What does "it might be" mean? It is, or it isn't. Dishonest to the core.

Another of their deceptions.
Jesus said in Revelation 1:8, "I am alpha and omega, the beginning and the end, the Almighty." Again, the corrupt Watchtower organization claims these words apply only to the Father. Wrong! Jesus is speaking and uses the pronoun "I" not my Father is.

Here's another one concerning the Holy Spirit. The pronoun "He" does not mean "He" to a Jehovah's Witness, "He" means "It". The Holy Spirit is not "he", but an "it," the breath of the Father.

In John 15:26, concerning the Holy Spirit they changed "he" to "that one”. They did the same thing in John 14:26. In John 14:17, speaking of the Holy Spirit, they changed "him" to "it."

Paul said, 2 Corinthians 11:10, "Christ is in me," not the Father is in me.
Verse 13, "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

Paul said Philippians 1:13, "My bonds in Christ are manifest in all the palace, and in all other places." He didn't say "My bonds in the Father are manifest---."

Philippians 1:1, to all the saints in Christ Jesus." Not the saints in the Father."

Believers are the Bride of Christ, not the bride of the Father.

Ephesians 1:1, "Paul, and apostle of Jesus Christ by the word of God (theos)." By the will of God, hmmm! Jesus is the Word, and in Acts 8, it was the will of the Lord Jesus that made Paul tremble. It was the Lord Jesus who told Paul to arise. It was the Lord Jesus who said concerning Paul, “He is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: for I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my names sake.” Nothing there about the Father.

And what name would that be? It’s Jesus, who is Jehovah, all to the glory of his Father who is also Jehovah.

[Capbook]

I can name an equal amount of versions that say the only begotten SON has explained the Father. Your NRSV Updated Edition and Berean Study Bible have added words to the verse. "Himself God" is not in the original Greek rendering. Those words are added, according to someone's conclusions, being biased trinitarians.

Yes, you may but mostly would be paraphrase translations.

No they are not paraphrased translations. You could say your ESV and the NRSV Updated edition are paraphrased translations.

You have not posted any of you've said equal amount of versions that say the only begotten Son, but any way it is labelled as "various readings," and not from original Greek wording. Updated ASV+ (N7) provide proof from P66, P75 (papyri) and etc, that the original words were "μονογενὴς θεός or ο μονογενης θεος" as only-begotten God or the only-begotten God.

I have, I thought, posted many versions that say "the only-begotten Son," the King James being one of them, the American Standard Version being another, and there are many more, as I will post here (again?) It is from the original Greek wording. Those who say "only begotten God" are adding their own opinions. Your Biblical sources are definitely paraphrased, having added words according to the translator's bias. Later.

Here, I find a more conclusive validation that Jesus is God, note N7 in Updated ASV+ supported by (papyri) P66, P75 and etc., which states that the original wording were "μονογενὴς θεός or ο μονογενης θεος “only-begotten God” or “the only-begotten God.” Variant readings say, "Son." That would be, original wording as "God" vs various readings as "Son."

Jhn 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God N7  who is in the bosom of the Father, N8  that one has made him fully known.(Updated ASV+).

N7 John 1:18 (UASV+)
The original words were μονογενὴς θεός or ο μονογενης θεος “only-begotten God” or “the only-begotten God” (P66 P75 א B C* L 33 syrhmp 33 copbo) A variant reading is ο μονογενης υιος “the only begotten Son” A C3 (Ws) Θ Ψ f1, Maj syrc).

[onewithhim]

Yes, you may but mostly would be paraphrase translations.

No they are not paraphrased translations. You could say your ESV and the NRSV Updated edition are paraphrased translations.

You have not posted any of you've said equal amount of versions that say the only begotten Son, but any way it is labelled as "various readings," and not from original Greek wording. Updated ASV+ (N7) provide proof from P66, P75 (papyri) and etc, that the original words were "μονογενὴς θεός or ο μονογενης θεος" as only-begotten God or the only-begotten God.

I have, I thought, posted many versions that say "the only-begotten Son," the King James being one of them, the American Standard Version being another, and there are many more, as I will post here (again?) It is from the original Greek wording. Those who say "only begotten God" are adding their own opinions. Your Biblical sources are definitely paraphrased, having added words according to the translator's bias. Later.

Here, I find a more conclusive validation that Jesus is God, note N7 in Updated ASV+ supported by (papyri) P66, P75 and etc., which states that the original wording were "μονογενὴς θεός or ο μονογενης θεος “only-begotten God” or “the only-begotten God.” Variant readings say, "Son." That would be, original wording as "God" vs various readings as "Son."

Jhn 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God N7  who is in the bosom of the Father, N8  that one has made him fully known.(Updated ASV+).

N7 John 1:18 (UASV+)
The original words were μονογενὴς θεός or ο μονογενης θεος “only-begotten God” or “the only-begotten God” (P66 P75 א B C* L 33 syrhmp 33 copbo) A variant reading is ο μονογενης υιος “the only begotten Son” A C3 (Ws) Θ Ψ f1, Maj syrc).

It is just saying that manuscripts differ. Mss. could be saying that "the only begotten Son" is tenable. There are mss. that use "God" instead, so, we must see how that compares to other Scriptures. The entire Bible testifies to the fact that the Father, Jehovah, is the only true God. Jesus himself said it. (John 17:3) Why hang a belief on such questionable translation?

[Capbook]

No they are not paraphrased translations. You could say your ESV and the NRSV Updated edition are paraphrased translations.

You have not posted any of you've said equal amount of versions that say the only begotten Son, but any way it is labelled as "various readings," and not from original Greek wording. Updated ASV+ (N7) provide proof from P66, P75 (papyri) and etc, that the original words were "μονογενὴς θεός or ο μονογενης θεος" as only-begotten God or the only-begotten God.

I have, I thought, posted many versions that say "the only-begotten Son," the King James being one of them, the American Standard Version being another, and there are many more, as I will post here (again?) It is from the original Greek wording. Those who say "only begotten God" are adding their own opinions. Your Biblical sources are definitely paraphrased, having added words according to the translator's bias. Later.

Here, I find a more conclusive validation that Jesus is God, note N7 in Updated ASV+ supported by (papyri) P66, P75 and etc., which states that the original wording were "μονογενὴς θεός or ο μονογενης θεος “only-begotten God” or “the only-begotten God.” Variant readings say, "Son." That would be, original wording as "God" vs various readings as "Son."

Jhn 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God N7  who is in the bosom of the Father, N8  that one has made him fully known.(Updated ASV+).

N7 John 1:18 (UASV+)
The original words were μονογενὴς θεός or ο μονογενης θεος “only-begotten God” or “the only-begotten God” (P66 P75 א B C* L 33 syrhmp 33 copbo) A variant reading is ο μονογενης υιος “the only begotten Son” A C3 (Ws) Θ Ψ f1, Maj syrc).

It is just saying that manuscripts differ. Mss. could be saying that "the only begotten Son" is tenable. There are mss. that use "God" instead, so, we must see how that compares to other Scriptures. The entire Bible testifies to the fact that the Father, Jehovah, is the only true God. Jesus himself said it. (John 17:3) Why hang a belief on such questionable translation?

Just reread John 17:3, it does not say that Jesus is not God, it is Jesus prayer that the eternal life is to know who? One or two?
See Wescott and Hort's, "The New Testament in the Original Greek," supported Jesus as God. Note: Wescott and Hort is not a translation, it is original Greek of NT.

(Greek NT Westcott and Hort+) θεον G2316 N-ASM  ουδεις G3762 A-NSM-N  εωρακεν G3708 V-RAI-3S-ATT  πωποτε G4455 ADV  μονογενης G3439 A-NSM  θεος G2316 N-NSM  ο G3588 T-NSM  ων G1510 V-PAP-NSM  εις G1519 PREP  τον G3588 T-ASM  κολπον G2859 N-ASM  του G3588 T-GSM  πατρος G3962 N-GSM  εκεινος G1565 D-NSM  εξηγησατο G1834 V-ADI-3S 

[onewithhim]

You have not posted any of you've said equal amount of versions that say the only begotten Son, but any way it is labelled as "various readings," and not from original Greek wording. Updated ASV+ (N7) provide proof from P66, P75 (papyri) and etc, that the original words were "μονογενὴς θεός or ο μονογενης θεος" as only-begotten God or the only-begotten God.

I have, I thought, posted many versions that say "the only-begotten Son," the King James being one of them, the American Standard Version being another, and there are many more, as I will post here (again?) It is from the original Greek wording. Those who say "only begotten God" are adding their own opinions. Your Biblical sources are definitely paraphrased, having added words according to the translator's bias. Later.

Here, I find a more conclusive validation that Jesus is God, note N7 in Updated ASV+ supported by (papyri) P66, P75 and etc., which states that the original wording were "μονογενὴς θεός or ο μονογενης θεος “only-begotten God” or “the only-begotten God.” Variant readings say, "Son." That would be, original wording as "God" vs various readings as "Son."

Jhn 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God N7  who is in the bosom of the Father, N8  that one has made him fully known.(Updated ASV+).

N7 John 1:18 (UASV+)
The original words were μονογενὴς θεός or ο μονογενης θεος “only-begotten God” or “the only-begotten God” (P66 P75 א B C* L 33 syrhmp 33 copbo) A variant reading is ο μονογενης υιος “the only begotten Son” A C3 (Ws) Θ Ψ f1, Maj syrc).

It is just saying that manuscripts differ. Mss. could be saying that "the only begotten Son" is tenable. There are mss. that use "God" instead, so, we must see how that compares to other Scriptures. The entire Bible testifies to the fact that the Father, Jehovah, is the only true God. Jesus himself said it. (John 17:3) Why hang a belief on such questionable translation?

Just reread John 17:3, it does not say that Jesus is not God,

It doesn't say that Jesus is not a giant toad either, but we know he is not. Just as we know that he isn't God.

It is clear from John 17:3 that Jesus is saying to the Father: "YOU are the only true God." You try to, but you can't get around that fact.

[Capbook]

I have, I thought, posted many versions that say "the only-begotten Son," the King James being one of them, the American Standard Version being another, and there are many more, as I will post here (again?) It is from the original Greek wording. Those who say "only begotten God" are adding their own opinions. Your Biblical sources are definitely paraphrased, having added words according to the translator's bias. Later.

Here, I find a more conclusive validation that Jesus is God, note N7 in Updated ASV+ supported by (papyri) P66, P75 and etc., which states that the original wording were "μονογενὴς θεός or ο μονογενης θεος “only-begotten God” or “the only-begotten God.” Variant readings say, "Son." That would be, original wording as "God" vs various readings as "Son."

Jhn 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God N7  who is in the bosom of the Father, N8  that one has made him fully known.(Updated ASV+).

N7 John 1:18 (UASV+)
The original words were μονογενὴς θεός or ο μονογενης θεος “only-begotten God” or “the only-begotten God” (P66 P75 א B C* L 33 syrhmp 33 copbo) A variant reading is ο μονογενης υιος “the only begotten Son” A C3 (Ws) Θ Ψ f1, Maj syrc).

It is just saying that manuscripts differ. Mss. could be saying that "the only begotten Son" is tenable. There are mss. that use "God" instead, so, we must see how that compares to other Scriptures. The entire Bible testifies to the fact that the Father, Jehovah, is the only true God. Jesus himself said it. (John 17:3) Why hang a belief on such questionable translation?

Just reread John 17:3, it does not say that Jesus is not God,

It doesn't say that Jesus is not a giant toad either, but we know he is not. Just as we know that he isn't God.

It is clear from John 17:3 that Jesus is saying to the Father: "YOU are the only true God." You try to, but you can't get around that fact.

I think we have already agreed the subject matter of the verse, it does not speak about the comparison of the Father and Son, but how would Christians experience eternal life, to know, who? One or two?

John 17:3-4
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent.
NASB

[onewithhim]

Here, I find a more conclusive validation that Jesus is God, note N7 in Updated ASV+ supported by (papyri) P66, P75 and etc., which states that the original wording were "μονογενὴς θεός or ο μονογενης θεος “only-begotten God” or “the only-begotten God.” Variant readings say, "Son." That would be, original wording as "God" vs various readings as "Son."

Jhn 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God N7  who is in the bosom of the Father, N8  that one has made him fully known.(Updated ASV+).

N7 John 1:18 (UASV+)
The original words were μονογενὴς θεός or ο μονογενης θεος “only-begotten God” or “the only-begotten God” (P66 P75 א B C* L 33 syrhmp 33 copbo) A variant reading is ο μονογενης υιος “the only begotten Son” A C3 (Ws) Θ Ψ f1, Maj syrc).

It is just saying that manuscripts differ. Mss. could be saying that "the only begotten Son" is tenable. There are mss. that use "God" instead, so, we must see how that compares to other Scriptures. The entire Bible testifies to the fact that the Father, Jehovah, is the only true God. Jesus himself said it. (John 17:3) Why hang a belief on such questionable translation?

Just reread John 17:3, it does not say that Jesus is not God,

It doesn't say that Jesus is not a giant toad either, but we know he is not. Just as we know that he isn't God.

It is clear from John 17:3 that Jesus is saying to the Father: "YOU are the only true God." You try to, but you can't get around that fact.

I think we have already agreed the subject matter of the verse, it does not speak about the comparison of the Father and Son, but how would Christians experience eternal life, to know, who? One or two?

John 17:3-4
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent.
NASB

Of course it is two. The Father and Jesus Christ whom the Father sent. What is your point?

[Capbook]

It is just saying that manuscripts differ. Mss. could be saying that "the only begotten Son" is tenable. There are mss. that use "God" instead, so, we must see how that compares to other Scriptures. The entire Bible testifies to the fact that the Father, Jehovah, is the only true God. Jesus himself said it. (John 17:3) Why hang a belief on such questionable translation?

Just reread John 17:3, it does not say that Jesus is not God,

It doesn't say that Jesus is not a giant toad either, but we know he is not. Just as we know that he isn't God.

It is clear from John 17:3 that Jesus is saying to the Father: "YOU are the only true God." You try to, but you can't get around that fact.

I think we have already agreed the subject matter of the verse, it does not speak about the comparison of the Father and Son, but how would Christians experience eternal life, to know, who? One or two?

John 17:3-4
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent.
NASB

Of course it is two. The Father and Jesus Christ whom the Father sent. What is your point?

My point is that the verse is not a comparison between the Father and Son as to their being Deity.

[onewithhim]

Just reread John 17:3, it does not say that Jesus is not God,

It doesn't say that Jesus is not a giant toad either, but we know he is not. Just as we know that he isn't God.

It is clear from John 17:3 that Jesus is saying to the Father: "YOU are the only true God." You try to, but you can't get around that fact.

I think we have already agreed the subject matter of the verse, it does not speak about the comparison of the Father and Son, but how would Christians experience eternal life, to know, who? One or two?

John 17:3-4
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent.
NASB

Of course it is two. The Father and Jesus Christ whom the Father sent. What is your point?

My point is that the verse is not a comparison between the Father and Son as to their being Deity.

It doesn't say that Jesus IS God either. He himself made it clear that the Father is the one true God.

[Capbook]

It doesn't say that Jesus is not a giant toad either, but we know he is not. Just as we know that he isn't God.

It is clear from John 17:3 that Jesus is saying to the Father: "YOU are the only true God." You try to, but you can't get around that fact.

I think we have already agreed the subject matter of the verse, it does not speak about the comparison of the Father and Son, but how would Christians experience eternal life, to know, who? One or two?

John 17:3-4
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent.
NASB

Of course it is two. The Father and Jesus Christ whom the Father sent. What is your point?

My point is that the verse is not a comparison between the Father and Son as to their being Deity.

It doesn't say that Jesus IS God either. He himself made it clear that the Father is the one true God.

It also doesn't say that Jesus is not God in that text, but in John 1:18 from original Greek of the New Testament, proves that Jesus is God.

[onewithhim]

I think we have already agreed the subject matter of the verse, it does not speak about the comparison of the Father and Son, but how would Christians experience eternal life, to know, who? One or two?

John 17:3-4
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent.
NASB

Of course it is two. The Father and Jesus Christ whom the Father sent. What is your point?

My point is that the verse is not a comparison between the Father and Son as to their being Deity.

It doesn't say that Jesus IS God either. He himself made it clear that the Father is the one true God.

It also doesn't say that Jesus is not God in that text, but in John 1:18 from original Greek of the New Testament, proves that Jesus is God.

No it doesn't prove that Jesus is God. There are many versions of this that say that Jesus is the SON of God. I posted 16 versions, and there are more. You posted yourself that the "Son" is one acceptable variation!