Jesus is God - Every knee shall bow

[Wootah]

Isaiah 45
22 “Turn to me and be saved,
all you ends of the earth;
for I am God, and there is no other.
23 By myself I have sworn,
my mouth has uttered in all integrity
a word that will not be revoked:
Before me every knee will bow;
by me every tongue will swear.
24 They will say of me, ‘In the Lord alone
are deliverance and strength.’”
All who have raged against him
will come to him and be put to shame.
25 But all the descendants of Israel
will find deliverance in the Lord
and will make their boast in him.


Philippians 2:10-11
English Standard Version
10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Is every knee meant to bow to God or to Jesus or is this evidence Jesus is God?

[onewithhim]

Now the context of Phil 2:10 is easy to gauge. Just read the verse before it to conclude who is Jesus.

(Php 2:9) Wherefore God highly exalted him, and gave to him the name which is above every name-
(Php 2:10) that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the earth,

Now who is deity again, God or his Son, Jesus?!

OK but isnt the name above all names only for God?

It is understood that God is the highest of all and His name is above everyone's. Now, He GAVE Jesus the name above all other names of those on earth and in the heavens, under the Lordship of the Father....how can the giver of a name be subordinate to anyone else? He obviously has all the authority and power, and He gives it to whomever He wishes.

Correct the Bible is clear that the Lord Jesus Christ is subordinate to His Father.

John 14:28 – "The Father is greater than I."
1 Corinthians 15:27-28 – "For 'He has put everything under his feet.' Now when it says that 'everything has been put under him,' it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ."
John 5:19 – "The Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing."
John 10:29 – "My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all."
Philippians 2:6-8 – "Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage... he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death—even death on a cross!"
John 17:1-5 – "Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you... I brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do."
Matthew 26:39 – "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."
Luke 22:42 – "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."

It's a topic that Trinitarians often avoid discussing because the concept of God being both Master and Servant presents an apparent contradiction. It's difficult to reconcile these two roles without creating a logical inconsistency.

One of many with the Trinity.

Asking them to explain, prove, and provide evidence for Hypostasis is, at best, quite entertaining.

F2F

Ok, let me discuss with you the verses you quote Phil 2:6-8. Let me present to you the logic;
1. Jesus as in the form of a servant, is He man or not?
2. Jesus as in the form of God, is He God or not?
3. If you answer the no.1 question honestly, why can't you apply the same logic to the no. 2 question? Why and explain.

1. He was in the form of a man, which is physical.
2, 3. Jesus was not equal to God, being in the FORM of God before he came to the earth, which merely means that Jesus was in SPIRIT form. (God is a Spirit, John 4:24, and so was Jesus before he came down here.) This doesn't indicate that Jesus was equal to his Father, just that they were in the same FORM--Spirit. The angels are spirit also, yet they are not equal to God.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to face2face in post #72]

The key difference between Moses and Christ is that Christ perfectly manifested God and remained sinless. While both Moses and Christ shared the same human nature and revealed the Will of the Father, Christ’s manifestation of God's will was flawless and without sin.

How can a non-God creature perfectly manifest God?

Jesus perfectly manifested God because he was exactly true to the things that the Father taught him. (John 5:19) The Father, undoubtedly, didn't reveal to Jesus ALL the things the Father knows (Matthew 24:36), but what He did reveal, Jesus honored and followed and exemplified to the universe.

[Wootah]

[Replying to face2face in post #72]

The key difference between Moses and Christ is that Christ perfectly manifested God and remained sinless. While both Moses and Christ shared the same human nature and revealed the Will of the Father, Christ’s manifestation of God's will was flawless and without sin.

How can a non-God creature perfectly manifest God?

Jesus perfectly manifested God because he was exactly true to the things that the Father taught him. (John 5:19) The Father, undoubtedly, didn't reveal to Jesus ALL the things the Father knows (Matthew 24:36), but what He did reveal, Jesus honored and followed and exemplified to the universe.

How can a non-God creature perfectly manifest God? We are talking about God here.

[Wrangler]

What you call agency I have come to know as God Manifestation.

Oy vey. I reject the premise that everything God does is unlike our experience on some level. My point is not about some mystical ‘God manifestation,’ whatever that means. My point is mundane, the use of agents.

Honestly, there is no reason to go down an epistemological hole that what we call agents is ‘Man manifestation.’ It’s a distraction. Simply put, an agent is a person who represents the principle but is not the principle person.

[face2face]

[Replying to face2face in post #72]

The key difference between Moses and Christ is that Christ perfectly manifested God and remained sinless. While both Moses and Christ shared the same human nature and revealed the Will of the Father, Christ’s manifestation of God's will was flawless and without sin.

How can a non-God creature perfectly manifest God?

Jesus perfectly manifested God because he was exactly true to the things that the Father taught him. (John 5:19) The Father, undoubtedly, didn't reveal to Jesus ALL the things the Father knows (Matthew 24:36), but what He did reveal, Jesus honored and followed and exemplified to the universe.

How can a non-God creature perfectly manifest God? We are talking about God here.

Still lacking in faith, I see.

Still waiting for you to engage with Isaiah 11:3

I'm patient... though the longer you hold out the more desperate your situation appears.

F2F

[Wootah]

[Replying to face2face in post #72]

The key difference between Moses and Christ is that Christ perfectly manifested God and remained sinless. While both Moses and Christ shared the same human nature and revealed the Will of the Father, Christ’s manifestation of God's will was flawless and without sin.

How can a non-God creature perfectly manifest God?

Jesus perfectly manifested God because he was exactly true to the things that the Father taught him. (John 5:19) The Father, undoubtedly, didn't reveal to Jesus ALL the things the Father knows (Matthew 24:36), but what He did reveal, Jesus honored and followed and exemplified to the universe.

How can a non-God creature perfectly manifest God? We are talking about God here.

Still lacking in faith, I see.

Still waiting for you to engage with Isaiah 11:3

I'm patient... though the longer you hold out the more desperate your situation appears.

F2F

I replied to you.

The Holy Spirit is God btw.

But for you, how can a non-God Holy Spirit be a, 'Spirit that produces absolute loyalty to the Lord'? You are just pushing things one step back but still with the same problem.

The issue isn't the Bible, we agree the verses say what they say. The issue is the burden is too much on a finite creation to make restitution with an infinite God.

Ultimately, how can not-God pay for sins again God?

[Wootah]

How can a non-God creature perfectly manifest God? We are talking about God here.

Still lacking in faith, I see.

Faith and logic should go together. Jesus is the logos after all.

You actually can have both if you change religion.

[face2face]

How can a non-God creature perfectly manifest God? We are talking about God here.

Still lacking in faith, I see.

Faith and logic should go together. Jesus is the logos after all.

You mean Logos became Jesus, right?

“The Word was God.” Jesus was “God manifest in the flesh”

This is shown by the angel’s description of the process by which the Word became flesh Luke 1:35

“The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore the child to be born will be holy; he will be called the Son of God

Son of Man who became the Son of God with Power.

F2F

Note: HS is Yahweh's Power personified in the Word

[Wootah]

How can a non-God creature perfectly manifest God? We are talking about God here.

Still lacking in faith, I see.

Faith and logic should go together. Jesus is the logos after all.

You mean Logos became Jesus, right?

“The Word was God.” Jesus was “God manifest in the flesh”

This is shown by the angel’s description of the process by which the Word became flesh Luke 1:35

“The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore the child to be born will be holy; he will be called the Son of God

Son of Man who became the Son of God with Power.

F2F

Note: HS is Yahweh's Power personified in the Word

Note: HS has personal attributes and so is not power. Like you are grieving the Holy Spirit

[face2face]

How can a non-God creature perfectly manifest God? We are talking about God here.

Still lacking in faith, I see.

Faith and logic should go together. Jesus is the logos after all.

You mean Logos became Jesus, right?

“The Word was God.” Jesus was “God manifest in the flesh”

This is shown by the angel’s description of the process by which the Word became flesh Luke 1:35

“The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore the child to be born will be holy; he will be called the Son of God

Son of Man who became the Son of God with Power.

F2F

Note: HS is Yahweh's Power personified in the Word

Note: HS has personal attributes and so is not power. Like you are grieving the Holy Spirit

Correct the HS is personified in the same way wisdom is personified in the OT.

Being desirable and all!

Proverbs 8 is a good place to start with the theme of personified wisdom.

The Holy Spirit is Personified “When He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth: for He shall not speak of himself” (John 16:13).

Do you know why things are personified in the Bible?

F2F