Genesis 1 Through 3 Timeline Challenge: Can You Resolve the Alleged Contradictions?

[Base12]

I am putting forth a challenge. See if you can make the Genesis 1 through Genesis 3 timelines/accounts agree with each other and not contradict as Wikipedia (and other sources) claim.

According to Wikipedia, Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 contradict one another:

“The overlapping stories of Genesis 1 and 2 are contradictory but also complementary, with the first (the Priestly story) concerned with the creation of the entire cosmos while the second (the Jahwist story) focuses on man as moral agent and cultivator of his environment.”

“Even the order and method of creation differs.”

Genesis creation narrative - Wikipedia

Did God make mistakes? If you agree with Wikipedia, let us know why.

Basic Rules:

• You are not allowed to take away from and/or add words to the verses.
• Use any translation you wish (mix and match is OK).
• The word ‘day’ must be interpreted as twenty-four hours or less.
• The interpretation of the phrase ‘surely die’ must be consistent with its usage elsewhere in the Bible.
• Use as many or as few verses as needed.
• Your interpretation must not contradict either Old Testament or New Testament.

I will submit my entry in the next post.

[Base12]

I am struggling to understand what you are saying...

See my previous post. The Word of God acts as a type of software that manifests reality. It has always existed.

God can create whatever he wants in whatever space of Time he chooses, even if it is a nanosecond.

1. God said "Let there be light" on the 1st day (correct?)

Correct.

2. That light was not there before he said for it to "be" (Correct?)

What do you mean by 'there'? Where is there? That is what you need to figure out first.

3. You said above that the "light" of Genesis I verse 2 was the Logos.

Yes. The Logos in this context can be related to many things. Order out of chaos. Logic and enlightenment. Even Wisdom...

Proverbs 8:26-27
"While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:"

How does one set a compass on the face of the depth? Do you know? This is something else you need to understand.

Did anyone even realize that there was another person there *before* Creation? Are we just going to ignore this huge Revelation?

QUESTION If the light (Logos) existed prior to the first day when God said let it "be", in what sense did it come to "be" on the first day?

Now you are asking the right question.

God created only one of the Three Heavens at that point. It was the Spirit Realm. God was transferring Light into this newly created Sacred Space.

The 'face of the deep' and 'waters' was not H2O or oceans. Most get that part wrong.

GENESIS 1:5
God called the light Day, but the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, a first day
QUESTION How could there be light (which God called "day") if there as no universe?[/color]

The Bible teaches that Light exists outside of our universe, obviously.

My understanding (correct me if I am wrong) is that you hold that every time the word "DAY" is mentioned in the Genesis creation account it refers to a literal 24 hour period (presumably when the earth does a complete turn on its axis.

I believe 'day' is a literal 24-hour period when the context calls for it (as in the case of Genesis). The Earth does not need to exist for God to keep track of Time.

Time is in Heaven as well...

Revelation 8:1
"And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour."

[JehovahsWitness]

... God was transferring Light into this newly created Sacred Space.

QUESTION In what sense then was this creation of light in another universe the first in the series of seven days which culminated in the creation of humans in the physical universe ?

[JehovahsWitness]

The Bible teaches that Light exists outside of our universe, obviously.

So does this light outside of our universe alternate with darkness in a 24-hour cycle? If so... why (since its source is the logos)?

[placebofactor]

Thanks placebofactor for your comments.

Wikipedia may be a good source for many things, but may not be a very good Christian source; their comments may have been written to cause confusion. Wikipedia still supports the "woke" movement.

Strawman argument.

The first error I see in almost every response is that verse 4 ends with a comma, not a period. Therefore, verse 5 is a continuation of thought of verse 4. The earth did not bring forth plants, herbs or any other fruits of itself, but purely by the power of the Almighty.

What does a comma have to do with what is written?

Secondly, the word "generations' in verse 4 needs to be qualified.

OK.

By generations of the heavens and the earth, Moses, is speaking of their origin and the order of creation, as in chapter 1.

Says you. That is Milk of the Word. The Meat teaches that the Heavens and Earth are symbolic of the Macrocosm and Microcosm of life.

Also, the word day is to be taken in a wider sense than in chapter 1, namely, as equivalent to the word "Time."

In other words, we need to take away and add to the Word of God to make it say what you want. Got it. Take away 'day' and add 'time' in its place.

Day referring to time is often used in scripture in this manner. John 8:56, "Abraham saw my day," that is, the time of Jesus' incarnation.

It is about Isaac. Ironically, you are correct, yet you will not understand why. I doubt anyone here will either.

Hebrews 1:3 explains Genesis. "Through faith we understand that the worlds (plural, stars, etc.) were framed (were prepared) by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear (are visible)."

So, the (worlds) were framed by the word of God. The visible creation was not formed of any eternal pre-existent matter but spoken into existence for nothing.

Bravo. Now we are getting somewhere. The Word of God is invisible. It is information and a strange type of energy yet to be discovered, i.e. the Logos. It manifests reality like a software code. We exist in a type of Simulation. That is what the verse is teaching.

If we tie that verse with this next one, something incredible is revealed...

Romans 1:20
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

• Invisible Things: Logos
• Things That are Made: Atoms
• Eternal Power: The light which no man can approach unto
• Godhead: Atom

The Godhead is what things are made of. We call them Atoms now. It is a Trinity.

• Father: Neutron
• Word: Proton
• Holy Ghost: Electron

People have no idea.

Base12, Thanks for your response to my response. But, after I read your response to my response, I went to my medicine cabinet for a sedative.

[JehovahsWitness]

My understanding (correct me if I am wrong) is that you hold that every time the word "DAY" is mentioned in the Genesis creation account it refers to a literal 24 hour period (presumably when the earth does a complete turn on its axis.

I believe 'day' is a literal 24-hour period when the context calls for it (as in the case of Genesis). The Earth does not need to exist for God to keep track of Time.

Agreed. But a literal day is 24-hours ( which happens to be the time it takes for complete rotation of the earth on its axis). Even if that period of time was counted without the planet earth existing, unless you have a different definition of a literal day, that is what is being referred to in Genesis every time that word appears: 24 hours/ 1440 minutes. Correct or incorrect ?

[onewithhim]

How about the "day" of Genesis chapter one actually being an undetermined period of time, just as Genesis 2:4 indicates?

[Capbook]

...and of all things in them...

Where does it say that?

It refers to the word "generation" in Hebrew "תּלדה / תּולדה tôledâh" defined by Bible lexicon as course of history of creation.
Be understood as the creation of six days.

תּלדה / תּולדה tôledâh
BDB Definition:
1) descendants, results, proceedings, generations, genealogies
1a) account of men and their descendants
1a1) genealogical list of one’s descendants
1a2) one’s contemporaries
1a3) course of history (of creation etc)

[The Tanager]

[Replying to Base12 in post #2]

Genesis 2:4 (KJV)
“These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.”

Commentary:
The verse begins a series of ‘recaps’ of Genesis 1 with additional details being added. The focus here is on the Third Day, when the Heavens and Earth were completed and ready for its first form of life. Day means day, not 'six days'.

What heavens were created on the third day? Genesis 1 talks about land (v. 9-10) and vegetation (11-12) created on the third day, but I don’t see any mention of the heavens.

Genesis 2:19 (New Heart English Bible)
And out of the ground God formed every tame animal, and every wild animal, and every flying creature of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name.

Commentary:
The timeline jumps to the Fifth Day (creation of flying creatures) and then to the Sixth Day (creation of tame and wild Animals). Note that something very important just occurred. A Law was made. Did you catch it? Whenever God creates a living being, Adam must name it. Moreover, whatever Adam ‘calls’ the newly formed being, that was its name.

Does this verse say that Adam can only name each living creature one name?

The phrase ‘surely die’ means ‘dying ye shall die’ or ‘dying the First Death, ye shall die the Second Death’. And that is precisely what happened, all within the Sixth Day. The couple became dust of the ground.

Here is a study on what the phrase ‘surely die’ means…

Ministry Magazine | Dying You Shall Die: The meaning of Genesis 2:17

What is the evidence that this phrase speaks of two deaths? The article you linked to says that “Hebrew grammars inform us that this construction intensifies a sense of certainty.” That would mean that 'surely die' means it is certain they will die, not die twice. The article then argues that this was a divine announcement disclosing an enforceable penalty rather than speaking of natural consequences.

Genesis 3:7 (KJV)
"And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons."

Because the couple became dust of the ground, God had to resurrect them. Note that this was not the Resurrection of Glory, but rather the Resurrection of Damnation. Their eyes were opened because the dead are asleep and must be awakened. Did God lie? Of course not. Did the Word of God contradict? No.

Why then does the verse connect their eyes being opened with knowing they were naked? Also, could you explain what happens in their damnation?

Genesis 1:27 (KJV)
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

As mentioned previously, a new method of creation requires a new name...

Genesis 3:20
"And Adam called his wife’s name Eve; because she was the mother of all living."

Again, according to the Law, every time God creates something new, Adam must name it.

Why do you think there is such an abrupt change from verse 19 (talking about the first man and woman) to verse 20 (talking about the second man and woman)? And why does God banish the second pair from the Garden?

[Base12]

QUESTION In what sense then was this creation of light in another universe the first in the series of seven days which culminated in the creation of humans in the physical universe ?

It is probably best to begin with Genesis 1:1...

Day 1:

Genesis 1:1
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

Most folks stop there and picture an already created universe with Heavens and Earth practically done. This is not the case. Interestingly, the King James translation uses the singular form of Heaven, as if only one of the Three Heavens is in focus.

The next verse needs to be combined with the first...

Genesis 1:2
"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

Something that is 'without form' is two dimensional. In other words, the third dimension has not been created yet. Something that is 'void' is like a perfect vacuum. These are concepts that do not exist in a three-dimensional universe. As we can see, those that believe God had already created most everything are way off course in their understanding. Consequently, Genesis, and even the entire Bible, will never make sense to them.

Terms like 'Face of the Deep' and 'Waters' are speaking of the Abyss of Hell, Underworld, Cosmic Ocean and even Semen. The last word is actually quite appropriate when one understands the Meat of the Word.

These are the GENErations. GENEsis.

This two-dimensional plane is like a piece of paper that God draws on to make a blueprint...

Proverbs 8:27
"When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth"

God is planning things out. Here we see it again...

Isaiah 40:22
"It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in"

After drawing the circle, he hovers over it to draw its inhabitants. We even see the scale at which he draws the inhabitants. They are the size of grasshoppers. This is standard blueprint terminology.

Genesis 1:3
"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."

The Light can be understood as all of the intelligent, i.e., Wisdom elements being added to the blueprint. Order out of chaos. Some use the term 'Creatio Ex Nihilo'. Whatever floats people's boats.

Genesis 1:4-5
"And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."

God is done making a blueprint. It took him a day to create it. Big whoop. Wanna fight about it? Time to take a break.

Day 2:

After God plans everything out, God begins to create the third dimension. He 'stretches' this two-dimensional First Heaven to create a cube, sphere or whatever...

Genesis 1:6-7
"And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so."

The 'Firmament' is what we now call the universe. We now have the third dimension. The 'Waters Above' is the Sea of Glass. It is a dimensional boundary. The 'Waters Below' is Hell and the Underworld. We exist in the space between. This is the Second Heaven.

Genesis 1:8
"And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day."

Day 3:

God finally creates Earth here on day three...

Genesis 1:9-10
"And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good."

Some believe the Third Heaven is Earth's atmosphere. I believe the Third Heaven is the Kingdom of God Within. It is the Microcosm of Life. In other words, Seed/DNA...

Genesis 1:11-13
"And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the third day."

Do you really think that God mentioned 'Seed' four times in one verse for no reason at all? These are the GENErations. Do you see? GENESIS. The Bible is all about SEED.

Summary:

• Day 1: God creates the First Heaven - Multiverse
• Day 2: God creates the Second Heaven - Macrocosm
• Day 3: God creates the Third Heaven - Microcosm

[Base12]

How about the "day" of Genesis chapter one actually being an undetermined period of time, just as Genesis 2:4 indicates?

If I agreed with you, then we would both be wrong.