The angel of the LORD

[placebofactor]

As we study the Scripture, we find the often-recurring phrase, “The angel of the LORD.” In almost all cases, this messenger is regarded as Deity yet distinguished from the Father. The angel of the LORD is the pre-incarnate Logos (the Word), his appearance in angelic or human form foreshadows his coming in the flesh.

Genesis 16:7-14, “The angel of the LORD found her (Hagar) by a fountain of water in the wilderness,” In verse 9, he tells Hagar to return to Sarai, and to submit to her. Verse 10, He tells her, “I will multiply your seed exceedingly, verse 11, He tells Hagar she’s with child and will bear a son, and that she is to call his name Ishmael; Verse 13, “She called the name of the LORD (Jehovah) that spoke unto her, thou God (the mighty one) sees me.”

Genesis 22:11, “The angel of the LORD called out to him (Abraham) out of heaven,” Verse 12, he said, “Lay not your hand upon the lad (Isaac). Verse 14, “Abraham called the name of that place Jehovah-jireh (meaning, the LORD will provide).

Verse 15-16, "The angel of the LORD called out unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, and said, by myself have I sworn, said the LORD.”

Genesis 31:11, “The angel of God (Elohim) spoke unto me (Jacob) in a dream.” In verse 13, The angel of God (Elohim) then said, “I am the God (mighty one) of Bethel,”

Numbers 22:22-35, “The angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him (Balaam.) Verse25, “When the ass saw the angel of the LORD, she thrust herself unto the wall,” Verse 28, “And the LORD (Jehovah) opened the mouth of the ass,” Verse 31, “Then the LORD (Jehovah) opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD (Jehovah) standing in the way, and his sword drawn."

Judges 6:11-23, “The angel of the LORD appeared unto him (Gideon).” Because Gideon doubted the one speaking to him, he called him Adoni or Lord. Verse 14, “And the LORD (Jehovah) looked upon him,” Verse 23, “The LORD (Jehovah) said to him, Peace be unto thee; fear not: thou shall not die.” Verse 25, “Gideon built an altar unto the LORD, and called it Jehovah-shalom:”

Judges 13: The angel of the LORD appears to the wife of Manoah, the father of Samson. She runs and tells her husband, “A man of God came unto me, his countenance was like the countenance of an angel of God. Verse 8, “Manoah intreated the LORD (he calls him Adonay) a name for God only. In verse 17, Manoah asks the angel of the LORD, “What is your mane,” The LORD answered “My name is secret (meaning Wonderful). Wonderful is what Isaiah 9:6, calls the Son of God, his name shall be called “Wonderful.” Verse 22, “Manoah said unto his wife, we shall surely die, because we have seen God (Jehovah).”

[RugMatic]

Could you identify by its proper name any of those so-called "gods" from the alleged Jewish "pantheon" you mentioned?

For srarters, El Elyon, God most high, was the top Canaanite god. This name was repeatedly used for Yahweh.

Correct: El Elyon (the Most High) is a name or title that applies to Jehovah, not to any other different god.

 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was priest of the Most High God.
19 Then he blessed him and said:
“Blessed be Abram by the Most High God,
Maker of heaven and earth;
20 And praised be the Most High God,
Who has handed your oppressors over to you!”
And Abram gave him a tenth of everything.
21 After that the king of Sodom said to Abram: “Give me the people, but take the goods for yourself.” 22 But Abram said to the king of Sodom:
“I raise my hand in an oath to Jehovah the Most High God, Maker of heaven and earth (...)"

David's best friend named his children after Baal, the son of Jonathan was Merib Baal, Fighter for Baal. Jonathan also had a brother named Esh Baal, Man of Baal, . David named places after Baal, . Elijah didn't deny Baal's existence, he believed Yahweh was stronger

Anyone familiar with the Scriptures understands that the Israelites deviated from their sole worship of Jehovah. Nevertheless, Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who requires exclusive devotion (Exo. 20:2-6), imposed harsh penalties upon them for their transgressions.

Do you believe Jehovah ever permitted them to worship any Baal without facing consequences? What does Jehovah say about the practices of the people and their rulers through the prophets he sent to speak to them in his name?

You don't seem to understand Israel's henotheistic tendencies and how it affected the composition of the Old Testament.

[Bible_Student]

You don't seem to understand Israel's henotheistic tendencies and how it affected the composition of the Old Testament.

It appears that you might not realize that to claim something and gain acceptance from others, you must first provide credible evidence to support it.

[RugMatic]

You don't seem to understand Israel's henotheistic tendencies and how it affected the composition of the Old Testament.

It appears that you might not realize that to claim something and gain acceptance from others, you must first provide credible evidence to support it.

Ok, you first. Prove Jehovah exists and that every single Old Testament author believed in Jehovah monotheism.

[Bible_Student]

You don't seem to understand Israel's henotheistic tendencies and how it affected the composition of the Old Testament.

It appears that you might not realize that to claim something and gain acceptance from others, you must first provide credible evidence to support it.

Ok, you first. Prove Jehovah exists and that every single Old Testament author believed in Jehovah monotheism.

That’s a surprising turn regarding the subject at hand...

I prefer to focus solely on the specifics of each open topic. Maybe you’d like to start a new topic about how believers demonstrate the existence of God, and if God is indeed Jehovah.

I believe we’ve reached the conclusion of this discussion. I appreciate your time.

PS: If you are not familiar with the forum rules, I recommend that you read them. For example, in this specific subforum, what the Bible says is taken for granted.

[RugMatic]

You don't seem to understand Israel's henotheistic tendencies and how it affected the composition of the Old Testament.

It appears that you might not realize that to claim something and gain acceptance from others, you must first provide credible evidence to support it.

Ok, you first. Prove Jehovah exists and that every single Old Testament author believed in Jehovah monotheism.

That’s a surprising turn regarding the subject at hand...

I prefer to focus solely on the specifics of each open topic. Maybe you’d like to start a new topic about how believers demonstrate the existence of God, and if God is indeed Jehovah.

I believe we’ve reached the conclusion of this discussion. I appreciate your time.

PS: If you are not familiar with the forum rules, I recommend that you read them. For example, in this specific subforum, what the Bible says is taken for granted.

You first.

Bear in mind three Old Testament books were written by a king who believed in the existence of many gods, and his last recorded act was ordering the murder of a prophesied rival.

You said all Old Testament authors were monotheists. Prove it.

[Bible_Student]

...You said all Old Testament authors were monotheists. Prove it.

You need to read the Bible first before talking about it.
The name of the only true God, Jehovah, is mentioned more than 6000 times in the OT.
I've never read that I should consider any other god as my own God.

If you need a Bible to read, there are many online. Have a great day.

[RugMatic]

...You said all Old Testament authors were monotheists. Prove it.

You need to read the Bible first before talking about it.
The name of the only true God, Jehovah, is mentioned more than 6000 times in the OT.
I've never read that I should consider any other god as my own God.

If you need a Bible to read, there are many online. Have a great day.

A king who believed in many gods and worshipped many gods wrote three Old Testament books. His last recorded act was ordering the murder of a prophesied rival. Not very Jehovah-like.

You have a great day as well!

[JehovahsWitness]

Yahweh / Jehovah was the ONLY God authorized to be worshipped under ths Mosaic law. While YHWH was refered to in Hebrew scripture as "the Most High "(a title) , the law distinguished him categorically from any of the other gods worshipped in the region.

While the Jews often strayed into idolatry and false worship ,their adoption of the pagan gods of the surrounding nations was ALWAYS in direct violation of their national lawcode.

[Difflugia]

Correct: El Elyon (the Most High) is a name or title that applies to Jehovah, not to any other different god.

This conversation would probably be better in C&A rather than TD&D because it involves actual scholarship, but it seems that the Masoretic Text has been slightly modified to paper over a distinction between Elyon and Yahweh.

“I raise my hand in an oath to Jehovah the Most High God, Maker of heaven and earth (...)"

The tetragrammaton isn't present in pre-Masoretic versions of Genesis 14 in the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Septuagint lacks an expected reference to Κυρίου in that verse, indicating that Yahweh was added later to make the interaction between Melchizedek and Abraham a bit more monotheistically. In the original, Abraham lifts his hand to El Elyon in deference to the god of Melchizedek.

Deuteronomy 32:8-9 also shows a distinction between Elyon and Yahweh, one of Elyon's children. When Elyon assigned the nations to His children, Yahweh's allotted share was Jacob:

When Elyon gave to the nations their inheritance,

When he separated the humans,

He set the bounds of the peoples

According to the number of the gods.

For Yahweh’s portion is his people;

Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.

This is another verse where the Masoretic text differs slightly in an attempt to render it a bit more monotheistic. Instead of "the number of the gods (בני אלוהים)," it reads, "the number of the children of Israel (בְּנֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵֽל)." Again, the Septuagint reflects the reading of the Dead Sea Scrolls, with "the number of the angels of God," an alternate translation of בני אלוהים.

Newer translations like the NRSV reflect the original readings over the Masoretic text.

PS: Baal was not a proper name but a title.

"Baal" was both. We know from the Ugaritic texts that Baal, like El, was the proper name of a Canaanite deity. There are also a number of uses in the Hebrew Bible that can grammatically only be a proper name. In Hebrew, the convention is that titles get a definite article, but names do not. "King David," for example, is "David the King" in Hebrew.

[Bible_Student]

Baal is a title meaning "Master/Lord". The inhabitants of the different human kingdoms were supposed to have had a (spirit) Lord in each territory they inhabited and who they considered the god of that land. The proper names varied, although the title was generally maintained: Baal (Master/Lord). In the Bible, Baales are spoken of in the plural (Judges 2:11).

El is a title meaning "God", as in Arabic, Allah (from the same semitic root) is not really a proper name but a title that ended up being used as a direct reference to God. Check here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah