The Arian Heresy

[placebofactor]

The following can be found in any history book.
Did early 1st, 2nd, and 3rd century Christians believe that Jesus Christ is God? Yes! Following the first three centuries are the thinking and works of the early 4th-century Catholic Church. The early Catholic Church worshipped Jesus as God, but certain Bishops within the church began to reject this teaching.

One in particular, his name, Arius, a Deacon of Alexandria Egypt, born 250 A.D. died, 336. His teaching gave rise to a theological doctrine known as Arianism. He maintained that "The Son of God was not;" He stated that the Son of God could not be co-eternal, co-essential, and co-equal with the Father. He reasoned that it was inconsistent and impossible, since the Father, who begat, must be before the Son, who was begotten, therefore, the Son could not be eternal. This is the obvious conclusion anyone would draw if they reasoned without the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Athanasius was the chief opponent of the Arian doctrine. He is thought to be the author of the Athanasian Creed known in Latin as “Quicunque Vuit.” Athanasians fixed their reasoning on the sacred writer by scholastic terms, to which the Arians agreed, with various evasive exceptions.

Trinitarians assert that Jesus Christ is God. The Arians allowed it, but only in the same sense as holy men and angels are called, "gods" in Scripture, implying Jesus was not truly God, but a creation of the Father. Athanasius affirmed that Jesus was God, Arius said, "They are of God, of whom are all things."

In the early 4th century, Athanasian collected many texts, which amounted to evidence proving that the Son was of the same substance as the Father; Arians would admit only that Jesus was of like substance.
Arius was excommunicated as a heretic and banished to Illyricu. Several years passed when he and his followers were called back to Rome. The emperor insisted on his being received back into communion with the church of Alexandria. The church leaders refused to receive him, and in 326 Arius died suddenly.

As the years passed successive Emperors took opposing sides to this issue. The peace of the Catholic Church was in turmoil for many years, each side in their turn being excommunicated, fined, imprisoned, or banished depending on the emperor in power.

Eventually, the doctrine was accepted in Rome but considered heresy at Constantinople. Rome had divided into two, the Eastern and Western Empires, as did the Church, one in Rome, the other in Constantinople. Rome fixed the doctrine of the Trinity, while the African and Eastern Churches, supported Arianism or some of its subdivisions of articles.

The Arians were in no way unanimous but divided into various shades of thinking. From this came two distinctions, one being Arians, the other Semi-Arians. The Semi-Arians stripped the character of Jesus Christ into that of a mere creature, while the latter admitted everything except Jesus had absolute equality with the Father.

Little of Arianism was heard from until the 18th century. Arian and Semi-Arian teachings remained at odds with each other. Jesus was reduced to the rank of an angelic being. Does this sound familiar? Jehovah's Witnesses teach that Michael the archangel is Jesus Christ.

At the council of Nice in 325 A.D. the Catholic Church in Bithynia met for two months, intending to deal with the Arian heresy. Between 250 and 318 bishops of the church had gathered together. The Emperor Constantine attended, with Hosins, the bishop of Cordova Spain. He loved God, was a learned scholar, and elected to preside over the council. The profession of faith, or Nicene Creed was drawn up at Nice, and subscribed by all the bishops except a few Arian believers.

Many of the bishops in attendance had gone through some form of persecution at the hands of the Romans, most jailed or tortured in the name of Jesus Christ. Arian teaching is as old as the Catholic Church but is brought to the surface now and then by fringe groups, or individuals such as Taze Russel, the founder of the Jehovah Witnesses.

[JehovahsWitness]

... Did early 1st, 2nd, and 3rd century Christians believe that Jesus Christ is God?

I dont know about it the 2nd and 3rd century Christians, but by that time The Great Apostacy foretold by Jesus and the Apostles was evidently under way and false teachers were infiltrating the true church corrupting it with false doctrined such as the trinity, immortality of the soul and eternal torture in hellfire.

What we do know is that Jesus the Apostles and the first century bible writers did not teach the doctrine of a "trinity", there is no record of them mentioning the word "trinity" nor did they teach that Jesus in human or in spirit form was ever equal in rank, power or position to Almighty God, The Father

Everthing else is just gravy!


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

JESUS CHRIST , PRE-HUMAN EXISTENCE and ... THE "TRINITY TEXTS" DEBUNKED

[placebofactor]

The following can be found in any history book.

[...]

Arian teaching is as old as the Catholic Church but is brought to the surface now and then by fringe groups, or individuals such as Taze Russel, the founder of the Jehovah Witnesses.

Can you turn this into a question? Even something simple like, "is Arianism true," or, "why does Arianism keep reappearing?"

As a debate site, one of the rules is that a new topic must have a clear question for debate. Statements of fact, even (or perhaps especially) long, well-researched ones, generally get moved to "Random Ramblings."

Difflugia, I understand that there are those on this forum who reject Jesus as God, and the existence of the Holy Spirit. There are no more important matters than these. Millions of people are lost because they reject both teachings. There are times when only the history of these subjects may clear up incorrect teachings. History needs to be explained; I don't know of any shortcuts. I will do my best, but I will not leave any subject half-explained. To do so is nuts, we have too much of that nonsense in the Christian community today. Wishy, washy teachings leave too many questions. True understanding is all about details.

Here are my questions:
Do you recognize Tazz Russell as the founder of the Jehovah's Witness?

Did Tazz Russel follow the teaching of the Arian doctrine? He taught that Jesus is not God, but a god. He also rejected the doctrine of the Trinity.

On May 1, 1989, Watchtower, page 4. The Witnesses published the following. "In the early part of our 20th century prior to 1919, the Bible Students, as Jehovah's Witnesses were then known, had to be released from a form of spiritual captivity to the ideas and practices of false religion .... Some were exalted creatures, indulging in a personality cult that focused on Charles T. Russell, the first president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society." What the Witnesses had to confess is, all those that followed Russel from 1879 until 1919 were "practicing a false religion, indulging in a personality cult.

Charles Taze Russell was not the founder of Jehovah's Witnesses. Jesus Christ was the Founder. (He is called "the true Witness" at Rev. 3:14. The true Witness of what? Of his Father Jehovah. Therefore he is the first and greatest Witness of Jehovah in the first century.) We go way back to him for our teachings on who God is, and the Trinity wasn't a part of it. Russell brought back the pure unadulterated teachings of Jesus, out of a confused mess of doctrines that had no relation to the truth that Jesus taught. Hell-fire, the immortality of the soul, the Trinity, and the teaching that the Holy
Spirit is a person were understood to be false, as a close study of the Bible brought out.

I don't know where you get the idea that from 1879 to 1919 the Witnesses were "practicing a false religion, indulging in a personality cult." How do you come to that conclusion? How were JWs placing Russell's personality in the forefront?

Can't you read? THIS CAME FROM THE WATCHTOWER: They were called the "Bible Students." The Watchtower is a Jehovah's Witness publication, not mine. "May 1, 1989, Watchtower, page 4. The Witnesses published the following. "In the early part of our 20th century prior to 1919, the Bible Students, as Jehovah's Witnesses were then known, had to be released from a form of spiritual captivity to the ideas and practices of false religion .... Some were exalted creatures, indulging in a personality cult that focused on Charles T. Russell, the first president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society." What the Witnesses had to confess is, all those that followed Russel from 1879 until 1919 were "practicing a false religion, indulging in a personality cult."

[EYR]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

I'm proud to call myself an Arian Christian as it distinguishes me from all you pagans and your Babylonian trinity - The Scarlet Beast herself!

[onewithhim]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

I'm proud to call myself an Arian Christian as it distinguishes me from all you pagans and your Babylonian trinity - The Scarlet Beast herself!

You've got it right, it's just that Babylon the Great is riding on the back of the Beast (which exemplifies the earth's governments). I too am proud to be among those that accept the Arian way of looking at God.

[onewithhim]

The following can be found in any history book.

[...]

Arian teaching is as old as the Catholic Church but is brought to the surface now and then by fringe groups, or individuals such as Taze Russel, the founder of the Jehovah Witnesses.

Can you turn this into a question? Even something simple like, "is Arianism true," or, "why does Arianism keep reappearing?"

As a debate site, one of the rules is that a new topic must have a clear question for debate. Statements of fact, even (or perhaps especially) long, well-researched ones, generally get moved to "Random Ramblings."

Difflugia, I understand that there are those on this forum who reject Jesus as God, and the existence of the Holy Spirit. There are no more important matters than these. Millions of people are lost because they reject both teachings. There are times when only the history of these subjects may clear up incorrect teachings. History needs to be explained; I don't know of any shortcuts. I will do my best, but I will not leave any subject half-explained. To do so is nuts, we have too much of that nonsense in the Christian community today. Wishy, washy teachings leave too many questions. True understanding is all about details.

Here are my questions:
Do you recognize Tazz Russell as the founder of the Jehovah's Witness?

Did Tazz Russel follow the teaching of the Arian doctrine? He taught that Jesus is not God, but a god. He also rejected the doctrine of the Trinity.

On May 1, 1989, Watchtower, page 4. The Witnesses published the following. "In the early part of our 20th century prior to 1919, the Bible Students, as Jehovah's Witnesses were then known, had to be released from a form of spiritual captivity to the ideas and practices of false religion .... Some were exalted creatures, indulging in a personality cult that focused on Charles T. Russell, the first president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society." What the Witnesses had to confess is, all those that followed Russel from 1879 until 1919 were "practicing a false religion, indulging in a personality cult.

Charles Taze Russell was not the founder of Jehovah's Witnesses. Jesus Christ was the Founder. (He is called "the true Witness" at Rev. 3:14. The true Witness of what? Of his Father Jehovah. Therefore he is the first and greatest Witness of Jehovah in the first century.) We go way back to him for our teachings on who God is, and the Trinity wasn't a part of it. Russell brought back the pure unadulterated teachings of Jesus, out of a confused mess of doctrines that had no relation to the truth that Jesus taught. Hell-fire, the immortality of the soul, the Trinity, and the teaching that the Holy
Spirit is a person were understood to be false, as a close study of the Bible brought out.

I don't know where you get the idea that from 1879 to 1919 the Witnesses were "practicing a false religion, indulging in a personality cult." How do you come to that conclusion? How were JWs placing Russell's personality in the forefront?

Can't you read? THIS CAME FROM THE WATCHTOWER: They were called the "Bible Students." The Watchtower is a Jehovah's Witness publication, not mine. "May 1, 1989, Watchtower, page 4. The Witnesses published the following. "In the early part of our 20th century prior to 1919, the Bible Students, as Jehovah's Witnesses were then known, had to be released from a form of spiritual captivity to the ideas and practices of false religion .... Some were exalted creatures, indulging in a personality cult that focused on Charles T. Russell, the first president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society." What the Witnesses had to confess is, all those that followed Russel from 1879 until 1919 were "practicing a false religion, indulging in a personality cult."

Only because they still hung on to false ideas that were still rampant in the churches, and Brother Russell still hadn't understood the errors involved with many of those ideas.

[Bible_Student]

Trinitarians reference Arianism primarily because Arius lived during the 4th century, attempting to persuade others that the "original" belief was centered around the Trinity. However, the truth is that all the Apostolic Fathers were subordinationists. In their understanding, the Son of God was distinctly subordinate to God, the Father.

Subordinationism represents the foundational teaching of early Christianity, as it was essential to the message Jesus preached: a Kingdom entrusted by God to His Son ...and fellow heirs. Without subordinationism, the Christian message loses meaning; if Jesus and God are on equal footing, there is no basis for a dynamic where the greater grants to the lesser (Heb. 7:7; John 14:28). This notion stands in stark contrast to the teachings and writings of the early Christians.

Conversely, the Trinitarian doctrine emerged from a blend of Christian beliefs and Neoplatonic philosophy, peaking in the 2nd century. This fusion of pagan philosophical-religious concepts with misinterpreted biblical texts gave rise to the pseudo-Christian Trinitarian dogma. Arius, along with others, sought to revert to the original teachings of the apostles, yet his "theological" opponents triumphed. Nonetheless, throughout history, others have continued to uncover these same profound truths.

[onewithhim]

Trinitarians reference Arianism primarily because Arius lived during the 4th century, attempting to persuade others that the "original" belief was centered around the Trinity. However, the truth is that all the Apostolic Fathers were subordinationists. In their understanding, the Son of God was distinctly subordinate to God, the Father.

Subordinationism represents the foundational teaching of early Christianity, as it was essential to the message Jesus preached: a Kingdom entrusted by God to His Son ...and fellow heirs. Without subordinationism, the Christian message loses meaning; if Jesus and God are on equal footing, there is no basis for a dynamic where the greater grants to the lesser (Heb. 7:7; John 14:28). This notion stands in stark contrast to the teachings and writings of the early Christians.

Conversely, the Trinitarian doctrine emerged from a blend of Christian beliefs and Neoplatonic philosophy, peaking in the 2nd century. This fusion of pagan philosophical-religious concepts with misinterpreted biblical texts gave rise to the pseudo-Christian Trinitarian dogma. Arius, along with others, sought to revert to the original teachings of the apostles, yet his "theological" opponents triumphed. Nonetheless, throughout history, others have continued to uncover these same profound truths.

Yes, I agree that subordinationism represents the foundational teaching of early Christianity and essential to the message Jesus preached.

[Capbook]

Trinitarians reference Arianism primarily because Arius lived during the 4th century, attempting to persuade others that the "original" belief was centered around the Trinity. However, the truth is that all the Apostolic Fathers were subordinationists. In their understanding, the Son of God was distinctly subordinate to God, the Father.

Subordinationism represents the foundational teaching of early Christianity, as it was essential to the message Jesus preached: a Kingdom entrusted by God to His Son ...and fellow heirs. Without subordinationism, the Christian message loses meaning; if Jesus and God are on equal footing, there is no basis for a dynamic where the greater grants to the lesser (Heb. 7:7; John 14:28). This notion stands in stark contrast to the teachings and writings of the early Christians.

Conversely, the Trinitarian doctrine emerged from a blend of Christian beliefs and Neoplatonic philosophy, peaking in the 2nd century. This fusion of pagan philosophical-religious concepts with misinterpreted biblical texts gave rise to the pseudo-Christian Trinitarian dogma. Arius, along with others, sought to revert to the original teachings of the apostles, yet his "theological" opponents triumphed. Nonetheless, throughout history, others have continued to uncover these same profound truths.

Yes, I agree that subordinationism represents the foundational teaching of early Christianity and essential to the message Jesus preached.

The Bible is clear that Jesus is one person with two distinct, but undivided, natures: human and divine. This means, at least in part, that by adding sinless humanity to His deity, Jesus did not become less than co-equal with the other members of the Trinity.

Some say Jesus is a lesser being than God. Those who promote this false view of Jesus, and who use these Scriptures to support their position, are known as “ontological subordinationists.”

These are people who believe that Jesus is less than God by nature of who He is. Rather than the eternal Son of God, Jesus either is a created being, a lesser god, or both.

This should not be confused with “relational subordination,” a biblically faithful position. According to this view, the three persons of the Godhead are equal in nature, but they voluntarily submit to each other respecting the roles they play in creation and salvation.

We should embrace relational subordination and reject ontological subordination.

[Bible_Student]

The Bible is clear that Jesus is one person with two distinct, but undivided, natures: human and divine. (...)

No; The Bible doesn't say that anywhere. I wouldn't waste time trying to discover what something like that could mean.

[placebofactor]

[Replying to Bible_Student in post #29]

Non-trinitarianism, or anti-trinitarianism. If you are a non-trinitarian, look at the company you keep.

These terms refer to monotheistic belief systems, primarily within Christianity, which reject the Christian doctrine of the Trinity, namely, the teaching that God is three distinct hypostases or persons and yet co-eternal, co-equal, and indivisibly united in one essence or “ousia.”

According to churches that consider ecumenical council decisions final, trinitarianism was infallibly defined at the First Ecumenical Council (the Council of Nicaea) in 325 A.D. non-trinitarians disagree with the findings of the Council for various reasons, including the belief that the Bible as they understand it takes precedence over creeds, or that there was a Great Apostasy before the Council. Church, and state in Europe suppressed non-trinitarian beliefs as heresy from the 4th to the 18th century. Today non-trinitarians represent a small minority of professed Christians.

Nontrinitarian views differ widely on the nature of the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. Various non-trinitarian views, such as Adoptionism, Monarchianism and Arianism existed prior to the formal definition of the Trinity doctrine in 325, 360, and 431 A.D., at the Councils of Nicaea, Constantinople, and Ephesus.

Non-trinitarianism was later renewed in the Gnosticism of the Cathars in the 11th through 13th centuries, in the Age of Enlightenment of the 18th century, and in some groups arising during the Second Great Awakening of the 19th century.

Modern non-trinitarian groups or denominations include Christadelphians, Christian Scientists, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons), Dawn Bible Students, Friends General Conference, Iglesia ni Cristo, Jehovah's Witnesses, La Luz del Mundo, Living Church of God, Oneness Pentecostals, Members Church of God International, Unitarian Universalist Christians and the United Church of God. Islam considers Jesus a prophet but not divine.

Islam teaches the absolute indivisibility of a god, and is further distinctly anti-trinitarian as several verses of the Koran teach that the doctrine of Trinity is blasphemous