What do JWs know?

[2ndpillar2]

I just had two JWs come to my house. They said that they do not believe in the Trinity, yet they were quoting from a bible whose canon was produced by Athanasius in 367 A.D., the same guy who was the main proponent of the Trinity doctrine at Constantine's Council of Nicaea. They apparently did not know that Athanasius produced the canon they used, and that he proposed doctrine which is opposite of what they believe. Is this a one off, or is lack of historical context part of the JWs normal routine? They gave their quote of the day, Rev 21:4, without context, and didn't know that Rev 22:15 applied to the same Jerusalem, and that those "who practice lying" would not "enter". As soon as I told them, they turned and walked quickly away. The second time in around so many weeks, that JWs came, and quickly walked away when confronted with their inconsistencies.

[marke]

No, as I said before. The wording "God the Son" is not found in the KJV Bible.

So is no record of Jesus actually the words "I am Almighty God" and nowhere in the bible did any of the inspired writers write the words "God the Son" . Wouldnt you say then ththese expressions are from a human man-made tradition rather than being direct quotes from inspired scripture.

The Bible calls Jesus "The Almighty" so denying that Jesus is the Almighty is evil.

Revelation 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Revelation 1:18
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Don't insult Jesus and his Father. Jesus always said he was subservient to the Father who is the Almighty. Revelation 1:8 refers to Jehovah, Jesus' God whom Jesus worships.
Revelation 1:18 refers to Jesus and I don't see in that verse anything about him being the Almighty.

Jesus called the Father "my God" in many places, one being Revelation 3:12: "The one that conquers---I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which descends out of heaven from my God."

Clearly Jesus doesn't think of himself as God Almighty.

Jesus left His coequal relationship with God in heaven to take upon Himself the form of a servant. Jesus did not become purely man when He took upon Himself the form of a man. He still had power to calm the sea, raise the deat, restor life and limbs, turn water into wine, feed thousands with two loaves with 12 baskets full of leftovers, etc.

Yes, and he didn't do those things because he was God, but he got his power from God. He said clearly that all things, and that would be including power, were given to him. By whom? By his Father, God. (Matthew 28:18) If he were God, he wouldn't need to have anything given to him.

When did God give Jesus this power, before the world began?


John 17:24
Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

[JehovahsWitness]

There is coming a time when Jesus will subject Himself to God.

Please explain YOUR comment.

[marke]

There is coming a time when Jesus will subject Himself to God.

Please explain YOUR comment

What point did I fail to address?

[JehovahsWitness]

What point did I fail to address?

If the gloried Jesus in heaven subjects himself to Almighty God, how, at the same time can Jesus be BE equal to Almighty God in every way?

How can "The Most High" be subject to ANYONE?

[marke]

What point did I fail to address?

If the gloried Jesus in heaven subjects himself to Almighty God, how, at the same time can Jesus be BE equal to Almighty God in every way?

How can "The Most High" be subject to ANYONE?

Jesus pre-existed in heaven with God before the world began. He laid aside His throne in heaven when He took upon Himself to inhabit a human body born of the virgin Mary. He will again reign on His throne over all the earth until the very end when He will again lay aside His equality with God to become subject to God like His bride.

1 Corinthians 15:28
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

The Scripture says "then" shall the Son also himself be subject unto God." The Scriptures does not say "then shall Jesus continue his subjection unto God that has always been his position."

[JehovahsWitness]

1 Corinthians 15:28
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

There is ---> coming <--- a time when Jesus will subject Himself to God.

Emphasis MINE

Three questions:

Q#1 Was Corinthians written before or after Jesus EARTHLY ministry?
Q#2 Was Paul writing about Jesus on earth or a glorified Jesus in heaven ?
Q#3 What did you mean that this time of subjection is ---> COMING?

[marke]

1 Corinthians 15:28
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

There is ---> coming <--- a time when Jesus will subject Himself to God.

Emphasis MINE

Three questions:

Q#1 Was Corinthians written before or after Jesus EARTHLY ministry?
Q#2 Was Paul writing about Jesus on earth or a glorified Jesus in heaven ?
Q#3 What did you mean that this time of subjection is ---> COMING?

The passage uses the word "then," implying a future event.

[JehovahsWitness]

1 Corinthians 15:28
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

The passage uses the word "then," implying a future event.

So if its in the future can this scripture be referring to the time in the past 2000 years ago when Jesus emptied himself and became a lowly human?

[Capbook]

No, as I said before. The wording "God the Son" is not found in the KJV Bible.

So is no record of Jesus actually the words "I am Almighty God" and nowhere in the bible did any of the inspired writers write the words "God the Son" . Wouldnt you say then ththese expressions are from a human man-made tradition rather than being direct quotes from inspired scripture.

The Bible calls Jesus "The Almighty" so denying that Jesus is the Almighty is evil.

Revelation 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Revelation 1:18
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Don't insult Jesus and his Father. Jesus always said he was subservient to the Father who is the Almighty. Revelation 1:8 refers to Jehovah, Jesus' God whom Jesus worships.
Revelation 1:18 refers to Jesus and I don't see in that verse anything about him being the Almighty.

Jesus called the Father "my God" in many places, one being Revelation 3:12: "The one that conquers---I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which descends out of heaven from my God."

Clearly Jesus doesn't think of himself as God Almighty.

But why the Almighty Father called Himself as "the first and the last" as it referred to Jesus? (Rev 22:13)
And Jesus is the true God in 1 John 5:20, see original Greek text below.
The "the one" in the verse all refers to the Father but the "this one" clearly refers to Jesus the nearest antecedent, the true God and eternal life. I colored them red.
Just a reminder that to experience eternal life is to know who really Jesus is. (John 17:3)

1Jn 5:20 And we know  that  the   son  of  has come,  and  has given  to us  thought  that  we should know  the one  true;  and  we are  in  the one   true,  in  his son Jesus   Christ. This one  is  the   true   God,  and  the  life  eternal. 

1Jn 5:20 And we know G1492 G1161  that G3754  the G3588  son G5207 G3588  of God G2316  has come, G2240  and G2532  has given G1325  to us G1473  thought G1271  that G2443  we should know G1097  the one G3588  true; G228  and G2532  we are G1510.2.4  in G1722  the one G3588  true, G228  in G1722 G3588  his son G5207 G1473  Jesus G*  Christ. G5547  This one G3778  is G1510.2.3  the G3588  true G228  God, G2316  and G2532  the G3588  life G2222  eternal. G166

1Jn 5:20 οιδαμεν δε G1492 G1161  οτι G3754  ο G3588  υιος G5207  του G3588  θεου G2316  ηκει G2240  και G2532  δεδωκεν G1325  ημιν G1473  διανοιαν G1271  ινα G2443  γινωσκωμεν G1097  τον G3588  αληθινον G228  και G2532  εσμεν G1510.2.4  εν G1722  τω G3588  αληθινω G228  εν G1722  τω G3588  υιω αυτου G5207 G1473  Ιησου G*  χριστω G5547  ουτος G3778  εστιν G1510.2.3  ο G3588  αληθινος G228  θεος G2316  και G2532  η G3588  ζωη G2222  αιωνιος G166

[onewithhim]

Jesus left His coequal relationship with God in heaven ...

Well he obviously never "reclaimed" it since the bible says he subjects himself to God. See 1 Cor 15:28

There is coming a time when Jesus will subject Himself to God.

How can ALMIGHTY GOD subject himself to anyone? The Most High can never be under someone higher; for at that moment he would cease to be the Most High.

If the gloried Jesus in heaven subjects himself to Almighty God, he cannot at the same time BE equal to Almighty God in every way

JW

Sinners disbelieve God because they have greater love and respect for their own opinions and doubts than they do for the Living God.

Indeed. How does that feel?