If Trump wins, will 2024 be the year of the last free election in the U.S.?

[Tcg]

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We almost didn't have one in 2020? Will 2024 be our last if Trump wins?


Tcg

[oldbadger]

Hitler also hated Stalin and vice versa while the two were essentially the same. Politics nowadays, given the choices, is just picking your poison.

Then it might be best to avoid any poison.

Sure, and I think one response to that has been the amounts of Americans that no longer commit to the Democrat and Republican parties and are instead choosing to become Independents. Independents now make up the largest group of voters in the US.

But we need more than just independent voters, we also need more independent candidates to vote for - something more than the two-party monopoly we have now. That will give Americans more and better choices, which should all be part of "free" elections anyways.

Very true.
I am an English Independent and am very glad to have seen Labour, Liberal-Democrat, Green, Conservative, Scottish-National, Welsh-National, Democratic-Unionist and Reform candidates all winnings seats as well as Independents seeking office here.

[Purple Knight]

But we need more than just independent voters, we also need more independent candidates to vote for - something more than the two-party monopoly we have now. That will give Americans more and better choices, which should all be part of "free" elections anyways.

This is one way in which the populace overall is simply so stupid that it drags the higher down to the lower. We're doomed to live in a societal hellscape as long as more than even a few people genuinely believe that if you have Hitler(R) Stalin(D) and Kennedy(I), it's better to vote for Stalin because Kennedy "can't win" and we have a duty to pick Stalin to make sure Hitler doesn't win.

Another way I've seen is that in grocery stores, on the bottom shelf, you can sometimes find the same products under a different brand with a much better price. But because people pick the attractive label, the good-priced alternative goes out of business. For example, Kroger no longer has a "Psst" owl brand that is 15% cheaper for things like sugar (which is a chemical and not some recipe so you can't say it would taste worse being an off-brand) because people wouldn't buy it. So I lose out on those savings not because I am stupid, but because the people around me are stupid. Arguably I'm making a big deal out of nothing for 70 cents, but for who runs our country, this matters. Big time. And it's vulnerable to the same stupid-people-dragging-it-down model.

[fredonly]

I actually think presidential elections are already not free from the standpoint of the candidate choices. The simple fact is that not anyone can run for president. The amount of money, paperwork, legal processes, all things impose by the two dominant parties, makes it virtually impractical for an average citizen that isn't well connected and/or poor to run for president.

IMO, the fundamental problem is the laziness of the electorate. Most choose a candidate based on marketing, few of us go to the trouble of understanding the real issues. The big parties are bit marketing organizations, and it's impossible for a startup to compete on that basis. If we all did the work to understand the important issues and analyzed what a candidate could really do, the marketing would be irrelevant - and we could choose more wisely.

[historia]

I'm of the view that both parties are doing things to undermine Democracy

. . .

Both instances amount to voter suppression/election interference by limiting who can run and who voters can vote for.

It seems to me you're veering into a false equivalency, my agnostic friend. Would you agree that the examples you cited here are substantially different from Trump's attempt in 2020 to use unconstitutional measures to remain in power?

[AgnosticBoy]

I'm of the view that both parties are doing things to undermine Democracy

. . .

Both instances amount to voter suppression/election interference by limiting who can run and who voters can vote for.

It seems to me you're veering into a false equivalency, my agnostic friend. Would you agree that the examples you cited here are substantially different from Trump's attempt in 2020 to use unconstitutional measures to remain in power?

I apologize for the late reply. For some reason I didn't notice your question until now.

If I'm understanding you correctly, I take it that your point about Trump's actions being substantially different means that they are substantially worse. I don't dispute that. However, my examples also point to things that are bad for "free" elections. From that standpoint, they fit in the same category.

In a free election, anyone should be able to run for national office given some basic constitutional requirements, like age requirement and being a citizen. But what we have now is a system that allows Repubs. and Dems. to rig our options (controlling what the options will be using regulations, setting a high bar to reach, using lawfare etc.), which oftentimes leaves Americans choosing between two bad candidates or two corrupt political parties.

[marke]

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We almost didn't have one in 2020? Will 2024 be our last if Trump wins?


Tcg

Democrats stole the 2020 election and it looked for a while like they would become successful in shoring up democrat fraud by 2024 to ensure that republicans would never win a presidential election again.