The Father, Pharaoh, Jesus and Joseph

[placebofactor]

The relationship between Joseph and Pharaoh is very similar to the relationship between the Lord Jesus and his Father. First, let’s understand the meaning of the title of a ‘vicegerent.’ It’s when a person has been delegated power as a substitute Ruler or King in the place of another. We find several examples of this in the scriptures. Nebuchadnezzar co-ruled with his father Nabopolassar until his father died in 605 B.C. Tiberius co-ruled with his father Caesar Augustus for 15 years until Augustus’s death. Also, Joseph and Pharaoh co-ruled Egypt, and Jesus and his Father co-rule the heaven and the earth.

The first few years of Joseph and Jesus' life were difficult. Joseph's brothers tried to kill him, and Herod tried to kill Jesus. But both were well-favored, Joseph by Pharaoh who sat on the throne of Egypt, and Jesus by his Father in heaven. Both would be given viceregal powers.
Pharaoh asked, “Can we find such a man as this, in whom is the Spirit of God?” Compared with,

Matthew 3:16, “The Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: and lo a voice from heaven, saying, this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

Pharaoh said to Joseph, Genesis 41:40, “You shall be over my house, and according unto your word shall all my people be ruled:”

John 16:15, Jesus said, “All that the Father hath are mine:” Jesus is given the title of Messiah or Christ, King, Prophet, and High Priest, appointed and declared by the Father in heaven. Every King needs a Kingdom, and the earth shall be where Christ rules as King and High Priest.

Here’s the interesting part, Pharaoh said to Joseph, “Only in the throne will I be greater than you.”
Jesus said, John 14:28, “I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.”

Like Pharaoh, the Father of our Lord is greater in the throne of heaven. Therefore, Jesus' is obedient to his Father’s every word and, authority.

Pharaoh said, “I have set thee over all the land of Egypt.” So, Joseph was designated as administration over the people and the land of Egypt.

It is said of the coming Messiah, Isaiah 9:6, “The government shall be upon his shoulder:”

Matthew 11:27, Jesus said, “All things are delivered unto me of my Father,” and,

John 16:15, “All things that the Father has are mine:”

Genesis 41:42, “Pharaoh took his signet ring from his hand and put it on Joseph’s hand,” So Joseph was now sealed as ruler over the house of Egypt. The signet ring sealed the deal for Joseph. The Holy Spirit whom the Father sent, sealed the Lord as King.
Proverbs 8:23, “I (the Wisdom or Word of God) was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.”

Matthew 28:18, “Jesus said, “All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.”
Luke 4:18, Jesus said, “The Spirit of the LORD is upon me,” set up and anointed of the Father to rule over the creation.

Joseph was arrayed in garments of fine linen, and put a gold chain about his neck;”
Revelation 1:13, “In the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps (chest) with a golden girdle (band).”

Genesis 41:43, “He (Pharaoh) made him (Joseph) to ride in the second chariot.’ Pharaoh had two chariots of like kind, and Joseph was given the second, a high honor indeed. Verse 43, The guards went before the chariots of Pharaoh and Joseph, with a trumpet and loud voice crying out to the people, “Bow the knee: and he made him (Joseph) ruler over all the land of Egypt.”

Should we as Christians bow our knees to the Lord Jesus? We are told,
Isaiah 45:21-22, “There is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be you saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.”
Let’s compare that with the following.
Isaiah 45:23, “Unto me (God) every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.”

Who is our Saviour?
John 4:42, “Know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.”

Acts 5:31, “Him has God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour.”

We are told to worship God only. In all of the following, the word “worship” is the same Greek, “proskuneo.”
Matthew 4:10, “Jesus said unto him (the devil) thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt you serve.” The devil wanted Jesus to worship him, Jesus was telling the devil, “You worship me.”

Matthew 2:2, The wise men, said to the King (Herod), we “are come to worship him (Jesus).” Verse 11, when they found him, they “fell down, and worshipped him.”

Matthew 9:18, A certain ruler named Jairus a ruler of the synagogue he came “And worshipped him (Jesus),”

Matthew 14:33, “Then they (Jesus disciples) worshipped him,”

Luke 24:52, “And they (his disciples) worshipped him,”

Revelation 5:8, “And the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb,” To fall down, is to worship.

Revelation 7:9, “A multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people and tongues (the bride of Christ), stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;”

Revelation 7:11, “And the angels stood round about the throne, (where Jesus and the Father sat) and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God.”
There shall be one throne in heaven, Revelation 22:3, “The throne of God (the Father) and of the Lamb”

Jesus repeats Revelation 1:8 in Revelation 22:13, I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.”
So, according to the above, Jesus is worthy of our worship, because he is our Savior, and our God, all to the glory of the Father in heaven.

[1213]

....Jesus was telling the devil, “You worship me.” ...

Jesus doesn't really say so in the Bible.

I think it is wrong to say Jesus is the God, when Jesus himself says there is only one true God, who is greater than him.

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3
Jesus said to her, "Don't touch me, for I haven't yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them, 'I am ascend-ing to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"
John 20:17
the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

Jesus also told that he spoke what God had commanded him to speak and he could not have done the things without God. Therefore I think Jesus is great, but God is the greatest.

Jesus therefore answered them, "Most assuredly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he sees the Father doing. For whatever things he does, these the Son also does like-wise.
John 5:19
I can of myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous; because I don’t seek my own will, but the will of my Father who sent me.
John 5:30
For I spoke not from myself, but the Father who sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. I know that his commandment is eternal life. The things therefore which I speak, even as the Father has said to me, so I speak.
John 12:49-50
Jesus therefore answered them, "My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. If anyone desires to do his will, he will know about the teaching, whether it is from God, or if I am speaking from myself.
John 7:16-17

I think the words of Jesus should be enough, but those are confirmed also by Paul. There is one God and Jesus is the mediator between God and men and in the end, God is the highest.

… we know that no idol is anything in the world, and that there is no other God but one. For though there are things that are called "gods," whether in the heavens or on earth; as there are many "gods" and many "lords;" yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him.
1 Cor. 8:4-6
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Tim. 2:5
For, "He put all things in subjection under his feet." But when he says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that he is excepted who subjected all things to him. When all things have been subjected to him, then the Son will also himself be subjected to him who subjected all things to him, that God may be all in all.
1 Cor. 15:27-28
But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God.
1 Cor. 11:3

[onewithhim]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

Jesus was certainly NOT telling the Devil to worship himself. He quoted from Deuteronomy where God's name is in the Hebrew, and that is who the "Lord" is in the original verses. Jesus was telling the Devil to worship his Father alone.

The verses he quoted: "Thou shalt fear Jehovah thy God; him shalt thou serve; and to him shalt thou cleave, and by his name shalt thou swear. He is thy praise, and he is thy God." (Deuteronomy 10:20,21; American Standard Version)

[placebofactor]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

Jesus was certainly NOT telling the Devil to worship himself. He quoted from Deuteronomy where God's name is in the Hebrew, and that is who the "Lord" is in the original verses. Jesus was telling the Devil to worship his Father alone.

The verses he quoted: "Thou shalt fear Jehovah thy God; him shalt thou serve; and to him shalt thou cleave, and by his name shalt thou swear. He is thy praise, and he is thy God." (Deuteronomy 10:20,21; American Standard Version)

I keep telling you, that Jesus is Jehovah. The Father is Jehovah. Jesus is our God sent by the Father. The heaven and the earth are Jesus' gifts from the Father.

Revelation 21:6, Jesus said, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely."

Jesus said, John 7:37, "If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believes on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."

[onewithhim]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

Jesus was certainly NOT telling the Devil to worship himself. He quoted from Deuteronomy where God's name is in the Hebrew, and that is who the "Lord" is in the original verses. Jesus was telling the Devil to worship his Father alone.

The verses he quoted: "Thou shalt fear Jehovah thy God; him shalt thou serve; and to him shalt thou cleave, and by his name shalt thou swear. He is thy praise, and he is thy God." (Deuteronomy 10:20,21; American Standard Version)

I keep telling you, that Jesus is Jehovah. The Father is Jehovah. Jesus is our God sent by the Father. The heaven and the earth are Jesus' gifts from the Father.

And I keep telling you that Jesus is NOT his Father, Jehovah. I asked you to explain Isaiah 61:1,2 where Jesus is anointed and sent BY Jehovah. How does that in any way show Jesus to be Jehovah?

[Difflugia]

And I keep telling you that Jesus is NOT his Father, Jehovah.

That's right. According to most trinitarian doctrine, Jesus is not his Father, Yahweh, but part of the Trinity, Yahweh.

I asked you to explain Isaiah 61:1,2 where Jesus is anointed and sent BY Jehovah. How does that in any way show Jesus to be Jehovah?

You've had this explained to you before, but a member of a collective can be sent by the collective. A traditional monarch of England, for example, is England in his sovereign self. He can send ambassadors that are politically England. He can send his armies to war for England. They're not the same person, but are of the same essence; all are England.

In orthodox Christian interpretation, Isaiah 61:1-3 includes all three members of the Trinity: Lord Yahweh is the Father, the speaker is the Son, and the Spirit of Lord Yahweh is the Holy Spirit. The Father Yahweh anointed the Son Yahweh with the Spirit Yahweh. The Son Yahweh was then sent to Earth to be the Suffering Servant and Christ Jesus.

You don't have to agree with it or like it, but hopefully someday, you'll at least start arguing against actual Trinitarian theology.

[onewithhim]

And I keep telling you that Jesus is NOT his Father, Jehovah.

That's right. According to most trinitarian doctrine, Jesus is not his Father, Yahweh, but part of the Trinity, Yahweh.

I asked you to explain Isaiah 61:1,2 where Jesus is anointed and sent BY Jehovah. How does that in any way show Jesus to be Jehovah?

You've had this explained to you before, but a member of a collective can be sent by the collective. A traditional monarch of England, for example, is England in his sovereign self. He can send ambassadors that are politically England. He can send his armies to war for England. They're not the same person, but are of the same essence; all are England.

In orthodox Christian interpretation, Isaiah 61:1-3 includes all three members of the Trinity: Lord Yahweh is the Father, the speaker is the Son, and the Spirit of Lord Yahweh is the Holy Spirit. The Father Yahweh anointed the Son Yahweh with the Spirit Yahweh. The Son Yahweh was then sent to Earth to be the Suffering Servant and Christ Jesus.

You don't have to agree with it or like it, but hopefully someday, you'll at least start arguing against actual Trinitarian theology.

I am arguing against the statement by placebofactor that Jesus IS Yahweh. He obviously is not, since Isaiah 61 shows Yahweh anointing the Son. The Son is separate from the Father, Yahweh. (And no, what you said hasn't been explained before anywhere that I can see.) Your "collective" theory doesn't really quite wash. Yahweh said that He is a jealous (exacting exclusive devotion) God and shares His level of glory with no one else. He stands alone as the one true God.

"I am Jehovah [Yahweh]. That is my name; and to no one else shall I give my own glory, neither my praise to graven images." (Isaiah 42:8)

[Difflugia]

I am arguing against the statement by placebofactor that Jesus IS Yahweh. He obviously is not, since Isaiah 61 shows Yahweh anointing the Son. The Son is separate from the Father, Yahweh.

Both the Father and Son are Yahweh.

(And no, what you said hasn't been explained before anywhere that I can see.)

Try here.

Your "collective" theory doesn't really quite wash. Yahweh said that He is a jealous (exacting exclusive devotion) God and shares His level of glory with no one else. He stands alone as the one true God.

In three persons. Yes.

"I am Jehovah [Yahweh]. That is my name; and to no one else shall I give my own glory, neither my praise to graven images." (Isaiah 42:8)

Exactly.

[placebofactor]

And I keep telling you that Jesus is NOT his Father, Jehovah.

That's right. According to most trinitarian doctrine, Jesus is not his Father, Yahweh, but part of the Trinity, Yahweh.

I asked you to explain Isaiah 61:1,2 where Jesus is anointed and sent BY Jehovah. How does that in any way show Jesus to be Jehovah?

You've had this explained to you before, but a member of a collective can be sent by the collective. A traditional monarch of England, for example, is England in his sovereign self. He can send ambassadors that are politically England. He can send his armies to war for England. They're not the same person, but are of the same essence; all are England.

In orthodox Christian interpretation, Isaiah 61:1-3 includes all three members of the Trinity: Lord Yahweh is the Father, the speaker is the Son, and the Spirit of Lord Yahweh is the Holy Spirit. The Father Yahweh anointed the Son Yahweh with the Spirit Yahweh. The Son Yahweh was then sent to Earth to be the Suffering Servant and Christ Jesus.

You don't have to agree with it or like it, but hopefully someday, you'll at least start arguing against actual Trinitarian theology.

I am arguing against the statement by placebofactor that Jesus IS Yahweh. He obviously is not, since Isaiah 61 shows Yahweh anointing the Son. The Son is separate from the Father, Yahweh. (And no, what you said hasn't been explained before anywhere that I can see.) Your "collective" theory doesn't really quite wash. Yahweh said that He is a jealous (exacting exclusive devotion) God and shares His level of glory with no one else. He stands alone as the one true God.

"I am Jehovah [Yahweh]. That is my name; and to no one else shall I give my own glory, neither my praise to graven images." (Isaiah 42:8)

Your timelines are all messed up. Jesus was not anointed in Isaiah 61. Isaiah is a prophecy of the future. Now ask me when did Jesus get anointed?

After he, Philippians 2:7-8, "Took upon himself the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient unto death even the death of the cross."

Note: After he became a mortal, that's when he humbled himself; that is when he became obedient unto death. That's when he was anointed by the Holy Spirit sometime in October of 27 A.D. between the 15 and 30th. He was 30 Years old when baptized, see Luke 3:21-22, "And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice (from the Father) said, Thou art my beloved Son: in thee I am well pleased." WHEN? Luke 3:23, "And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age," He was born in 4 B.C., baptized in October of 27 A.D., at the age of 30, and died the day before the Passover in April of 31 A.D., at the age of 33 years and 6 months.

You run everything together. You take a prophesy from the O.T. and think it happened on the day it was prophesied. Do yourself a favor and stop trying to convince those of us who have studied the Bible and have not been indoctrinated with the ideas and confusing doctrines of others.

Happy New Year!

[onewithhim]

And I keep telling you that Jesus is NOT his Father, Jehovah.

That's right. According to most trinitarian doctrine, Jesus is not his Father, Yahweh, but part of the Trinity, Yahweh.

I asked you to explain Isaiah 61:1,2 where Jesus is anointed and sent BY Jehovah. How does that in any way show Jesus to be Jehovah?

You've had this explained to you before, but a member of a collective can be sent by the collective. A traditional monarch of England, for example, is England in his sovereign self. He can send ambassadors that are politically England. He can send his armies to war for England. They're not the same person, but are of the same essence; all are England.

In orthodox Christian interpretation, Isaiah 61:1-3 includes all three members of the Trinity: Lord Yahweh is the Father, the speaker is the Son, and the Spirit of Lord Yahweh is the Holy Spirit. The Father Yahweh anointed the Son Yahweh with the Spirit Yahweh. The Son Yahweh was then sent to Earth to be the Suffering Servant and Christ Jesus.

You don't have to agree with it or like it, but hopefully someday, you'll at least start arguing against actual Trinitarian theology.

I am arguing against the statement by placebofactor that Jesus IS Yahweh. He obviously is not, since Isaiah 61 shows Yahweh anointing the Son. The Son is separate from the Father, Yahweh. (And no, what you said hasn't been explained before anywhere that I can see.) Your "collective" theory doesn't really quite wash. Yahweh said that He is a jealous (exacting exclusive devotion) God and shares His level of glory with no one else. He stands alone as the one true God.

"I am Jehovah [Yahweh]. That is my name; and to no one else shall I give my own glory, neither my praise to graven images." (Isaiah 42:8)

Your timelines are all messed up. Jesus was not anointed in Isaiah 61. Isaiah is a prophecy of the future. Now ask me when did Jesus get anointed?

Did I say that Jesus was anointed in Isaiah's day? I don't think so. My point was that Jesus attributed the Isaiah Scripture to himself and his separate Father, Jehovah, when he read the scroll, at Luke 4:18-21. He said, "Today this scripture that you just heard is fulfilled." I drew attention to these verses to show that Jehovah and Jesus are two separate individuals. (And Yahweh is just another rendering of the Tetragrammaton which is also translated as Jehovah. Yahweh = Jehovah.)