Did Lazarus die a second time?

[placebofactor]

Did Lazarus die a second time? Or was he raised as a model or illustration, incorruptible and immortal?

Okay, let's examine what the Scriptures have to say. There are five or six different Greek words for raised, resurrection, arose, and rise, each having a different meaning. We can rise from sleep, rise from a chair and walk away, and rise from the dead. The word we’re interested in is found in John 11:23. Jesus said to Martha, “Your brother shall ‘rise’ again.” The same word is used in, Matthew 17:9, “Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be ‘risen’ again from the dead.” Also Mark 9:9-10, and Luke 16:31.

Lazarus had been in the grave for four days. In verse 39 Martha said to the Lord, "Lord, by this time he stinks: for he has been dead four days." So, Lazarus’s old body is no longer any good, it is in a stage of decay. So, the guy needed a new body, and Jesus was there to give him one.

Jesus tells Martha, in verse 23, "Thy brother shall rise again." The word rise Jesus used is an intransitive verb, one that expresses an action that is limited to the agent, in this case, (Lazarus). It is in the perfect pluperfect; a tense which denotes that an action or event is to take place previous to another past action or event. It’s used against the following backdrop when Jesus said in verses 25-26.

“I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believes in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever lives and believes in me shall never die.”

The resurrection of the dead was a finished work confirmed in heaven from the beginning of the creation. Revelation 13:8, Jesus is said to be, “A Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” Believers are foreordained before the foundation of the world to be raised to everlasting life, and our names have been written in the Book of Life. To claim that Lazarus died a second time is to deny the following scriptures. Hebrews 9:27, “It is appointed unto (All) men once to die,”

Your thoughts.

[JehovahsWitness]

There is no scriptural basis to believe Lazarus was raised to immortality, so he must have eventually died (a second time).

• Lazarus was received, in a physical body, by his sisters and (unlike Jesus) there is no account of his being raised bodily into the sky as a visual aid to know that he was going to heaven.

• The account says that the Pharisees and religious leaders conspired to actually kill him as he was a living testimony of Jesus powers. A rather pointless endeavor if Lazarus was actually indestructible (immortal).

• Jesus stated that “And no one has ascended into heaven" except he himself ("the Son of Man"). So he was indicating that the way to heavenly life as an immortal was not open for any human prior to his own death and resurrection.

• If Lazarus was resurrected as a HUMAN he would have had to subsequently die (a second time) after Jesus opened the way to heaven, to be able to go to heaven as an immortal spirit.

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS


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To learn more please go to other posts related to

THE CONDITION OF THE DEAD , HEAVEN and ...RESURRECTION

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[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #2]

To my good friend Jehovahwitness. I hope you had a good holiday and didn't eat too much. I would have bet the last dollar in my wallet that you would be the first to reply to this thread. Thanks, I needed the money! I would like you to know something about me. Over forty years ago when I was racing horses in Brandywine Delaware, I received a call from my mother who I had not seen for over a year. I'm Italian, my grandparents were born in Italy, and both sides of my family came from a long line of Catholics. Anyway, my mother said, "Phil, I've been going back to church." Of course, I was happy for her. As for me, the last time I attended a church service was well over 20 years. Here are her words, "I joined the Jehovah's Witnesses." I scratched my head and said to myself, "What's a Jehovah?" Seriously! I had never heard of the word. Why, because when we attended Catholic services, they were in Latin, and at the age of 12 I didn't speak Latin, barely spoke English well.

Being a curious person, I went to the library and borrowed a few books on the history of the Witnesses, beginning with Taze Russell. I approached the subject with an open mind, and when I was finished, I asked myself; I will never forget this, "Phil would you buy a racehorse from this guy?" My answer was "No!" He was corrupt to the core, stealing from his congregation in what was called, the "Penny wheat deal." He was thrown out of Canada for perjury, divorced, etc. But one thing good came from all that, I began to study the Bible. The problem; the rest of my family, mother, three sisters, brothers-in-law, their sons, and their daughters all went from Catholic to Witnesses. I love them all and I'd take a bullet for them, but we are spiritual enemies. I have studied all your doctrines extensively and read through the N.W.T., all four copywrites, the Watchtowers, Awake magazines, diglots, etc. I've had a thousand discussions with them, and have done an extensive comparison between the K.J.B. and N.W.T. I always welcome them into my home, because I like them, but not because I agree with them.

I respect the Witnesses, their tenacity for study, and their mannerisms. But I can never be one with them or their teaching. The doctrine of Arianism is written all over it. Not believing in the Holy Spirit as a "HE", baffles me, and the changes the N.W.T. has made with any and all verses concerning the deity of Jesus Christ are astonishing. Anyway, that's my story. I like to exchange ideas with people on the Scriptures, not argue, I'm too old to fight.

[JehovahsWitness]

...I would like you to know something about me.

Thanks for sharing but this is a debate forum not church. Did you have any comment on the actual content of my post?

[placebofactor]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #4]

Just making my position clear. Okay, I won't be a nice guy. I know what you believe, but I don't agree with your basics, your foundation is filled with cracks. You say the Holy Spirit is the breath of the Father, I disagree, vehemently! Why? Because your teacher is an organization, my teacher is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was sent to us by the resurrected Lord, John 15:26. So how can Jesus send the breath of the Father to us? Ridiculous! You claim Jesus is a god, equal to the angels, to man, and even the devil who are all said to be the sons of God. Also, I disagree with almost all the Jehovah's Witness teachings and the false interpretation written in the N.W.T. which I believe is corrupt from cover to cover. Does that make you feel better?

Your organization has set upon their flock hundreds of dos and don'ts, Hundreds of them. You don't vote because you claim Jesus was not involved in politics. That's a joke, the hup of the Jewish society was religious, not political. But their religious system had its chain of command, laws, and punishments. The high-Prest was their President, the scribes were their lawyers, and they had 613 laws, break one and you're in trouble. Step out of line and get stoned to death. Your men don't serve in the military but enjoy the freedom they give to you and the nation. You hide behind men like me and millions of others who were/are willing to sacrifice for the good of the whole. Because of your comments, I will no longer answer to your posts. Have a good day.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #4]

Just making my position clear.

Duly noted. However I cannot see anything in this your second response that relates to the actual topic of debate: I was under the impression the question was about the resurrection of Lazarus namely :

Did Lazarus die a second time? Or was he raised as a model or illustration, incorruptible and immortal?

but unless I am mistaken your post does not contain a single reference to Lazarus nor does it address any of the points I made.

Perhaps it would be helpful for you to use the quote feature to highlight the specific words you are responding to in future. In any case have a most excellent evening,


Regards,


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

[1213]

Did Lazarus die a second time? Or was he raised as a model or illustration, incorruptible and immortal?

Bible doesn't tell. I think it is possible he did not die second time.

[placebofactor]

Did Lazarus die a second time? Or was he raised as a model or illustration, incorruptible and immortal?

Bible doesn't tell. I think it is possible he did not die second time.

Correct, but we do have a strong clue in Hebrews 9:27, "It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment," The verse suggests that judgment for each individual follows death immediately. I won't bend when the verse is as clear as the Lord could possibly make it. Lazarus' work was defined before he died, so why would it be defined a second time? Christ died once. That's my take on the subject.

[JehovahsWitness]

we do have a strong clue in Hebrews 9:27, "It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment," The verse suggests that judgment for each individual follows death immediately.

Emphasis MINE


After does not equate to immediately after. For example, if a woman has a baby AFTER marriage , that does not impose that she was in labour during the wedding reception or that they cut the ombilical cord before they cut the cake. Hebrews 9 indicates sequence but not time constraint.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

[placebofactor]

we do have a strong clue in Hebrews 9:27, "It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment," The verse suggests that judgment for each individual follows death immediately.

Emphasis MINE


After does not equate to immediately after. For example, if a woman has a baby AFTER marriage , that does not impose that she was in labour during the wedding reception or that they cut the ombilical cord before they cut the cake. Hebrews 9 indicates sequence but not time constraint.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

What say this woman to whom you are referring had a sexual encounter with her new husband 9 months earlier to the day of her wedding. She cuts the cake, and then 10 minutes later has her newborn son. Or, 10 minutes before she cuts the cake, she goes into labor. Ah! she may have a girl or even twins. Your comparison is like comparing Brockley to an apple.