Is Christmas 'pagan'?

[historia]

From a recent blog post at a website called the History Cooperative:

The origins of Christmas can be traced back to the ancient Roman and Norse civilizations. In fact, 25th December was not even Jesus’ date of birth. The early Christians appropriated what was originally a pagan holiday because it was convenient. Before that, the people of ancient Europe had celebrations of the pagan god Saturn or even Odin at the end of December to mark the shortest day of the year. Indeed, many of the Christmas traditions we have today come from these ancient festivals. Examples of this include kissing under the mistletoe and decorating trees.

You can find claims similar to this all over the Internet, especially this time of year.

Questions for debate:

(1) Is Christmas 'pagan'?

(2) Should Christians celebrate Christmas?

[Difflugia]

(1) Is Christmas 'pagan'?

As far as I know, there's no smoking-gun evidence that December 25 was selected specifically to coincide with a pagan holiday, but the earliest mention of both the feast of Sol Invictus and the feast of Christ's birth on December 25 is the same document.

A number of Christmas traditions are similar to traditions of pagan holidays, but again, I think the evidence is pretty much circumstantial. Gift-giving is usually the go-to as being borrowed from Saturnalia, but there are plausible reasons for them being more-or-less independent (the Magi bearing gifts, Christian charity).

I'm inclined to think that it's something like Purim, the celebration of the story of Esther. Scholarly opinion is that Purim is a modified version of some Babylonian or Persian festival, but at the same time, nobody knows for sure which one. It seems that diaspora Jews found a festival that they enjoyed and attached a message of Jewish identity to it. To me, something similar seems likely of Roman Christians and Christmas.

(2) Should Christians celebrate Christmas?

"I know, and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is of itself unclean. However, if one thinks something is unclean, for him it is unclean."—Romans 14:14

[SiNcE_1985]

You can find claims similar to this all over the Internet, especially this time of year.

Yeah, usually by religious folks.

Whether or not Christmas is pagan, is usually not being debated in unbelieving circles.

It appears that certain members of this forum are the exceptions.

Questions for debate:

(1) Is Christmas 'pagan'?

Depends on what individuals do on the day.

(2) Should Christians celebrate Christmas?

If they so desire.

Next..

[1213]

(1) Is Christmas 'pagan'?

If you have it like a pagan.

(2) Should Christians celebrate Christmas?

The word Christ means Jesus Christ. He is in no way pagan.

The word mas, means a convention of Christians in this case.

Christians means originally disciples of Jesus.

So, when it is and means a Christian convention, I don't see why not celebrate it.

[JehovahsWitness]

Questions for debate:

(1) Is Christmas 'pagan'?

That depends on how one classifies something as "pagan". If one classifies "pagan" as something that has pagan roots ie. the original date and /or earliest known features of the celebration being non-Christian, then yes Christmas is definitely "pagan".

If by "pagan" one means that which is presently considered by believers that find it acceptable as such, then no.

(2) Should Christians celebrate Christmas?

No, absolutely not. As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I believe the origins of a celebration can disqualify it as a suitable celebration for Christians regardless of how it is presently viewed. In short, biblically, Christians cannot claim, rename and rebrand a pagan celebration and in doing so "sanctify" it to a higher purpose.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

To read more, please go to to other posts related to

CHRISTMAS , .EASTER and ... HALLOWEEN

[historia]

That depends on how one classifies something as "pagan". If one classifies "pagan" as something that has pagan roots ie. the original date and /or earliest known features of the celebration being non-Christian, then yes Christmas is definitely "pagan".

If by "pagan" one means that which is presently considered by believers that find it acceptable as such, then no.

Thank you for that clarifying remark. I am, indeed, asking about the origins of Christmas, and whether it has "pagan roots," as the article cited in the OP claims.

In that regard, why do you think Christmas is "definitely pagan"? And, more importantly, what historical evidence do you think supports that conclusion?

[historia]

Whether or not Christmas is pagan, is usually not being debated in unbelieving circles.

On the contrary, whether Christmas has pagan roots or not -- the question I'm asking in this thread -- is one that is regularly taken up by atheist critics of Christianity. I don't believe the author of the article cited in the OP is a believer, for example.

[historia]

The word Christ means Jesus Christ. He is in no way pagan.

Okay.

The word mas, means a convention of Christians in this case.

The suffix '-mas' here is from the ecclesiastical Latin missa, which is a direct reference to the Mass, the celebration of the sacrament of the Eucharist.

[JehovahsWitness]

In that regard, why do you think Christmas is "definitely pagan"?

Because I view somthing as pagan if any features are of that thing have any links whatsover with non-christian factors. And I refer to Christmas as the sum of all modern day activities and rituals specific to the period leading up to, including and following of the winter soltace.

...what historical evidence do you think supports that conclusion?

See links below...

Do the festivities associated with Christmas have their origins in pagan religious celebrations? tigger)
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 06#p815406


Are there any links between pagan religious festivals and date 25th December?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 26#p897426

What are the origins of the Christmas customs? (lights, logs festivities ect)
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 32#p897432

[bjs1]

As far as I know, there's no smoking-gun evidence that December 25 was selected specifically to coincide with a pagan holiday, but the earliest mention of both the feast of Sol Invictus and the feast of Christ's birth on December 25 is the same document.

For whatever it is worth, this is not true. The Chronography (354 AD) contains the first mention of Sol Invictus being celebrated on December 25.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronograph_of_354

The Chronographiai (221 AD) by Sextus Julius Africanus sets the date of Jesus’ conception on March 25. This popularized the idea that Jesus was born on December 25.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sextus_Julius_Africanus