Why Was Satan . . .

[Miles]

.


. . . given power to tempt man, thus leading man into sin and eventually causing him to go to hell?


.............................


Couldn't god have done it without Satan's help?


.

[Capbook]

It is God talking to Satan. Satan was trying to get Jehovah to strike down Job. But God was not guilty of acting against Job.

Trying? or tried? Remember Job still holdeth fast his integrity.
Of course God is not guilty, we are guilty if we fail God's trials.
Is anything would happen if God does not allow it?

That's right, as I said before. God allows bad things to happen, but He does not cause them. The trials are Satan's.

If God does not allow Satan's trial would it happen or not?

It would not.

Then who do you think have the final decision?

Onewithhim, I believe you missed to answer my question.

You're not being very clear. What was the question I missed?

I colored it red now, see above.

Jehovah God had the final decision as to whether or not Job and mankind would be tested to prove their loyalty to Him. He ALLOWED Satan to attack Job with all kinds of problems. I believe I have already said this in my posts.

I don't see you've already answered about God as has the final decision.
Is "allowing" not taking part of the attack?

[onewithhim]

Trying? or tried? Remember Job still holdeth fast his integrity.
Of course God is not guilty, we are guilty if we fail God's trials.
Is anything would happen if God does not allow it?

That's right, as I said before. God allows bad things to happen, but He does not cause them. The trials are Satan's.

If God does not allow Satan's trial would it happen or not?

It would not.

Then who do you think have the final decision?

Onewithhim, I believe you missed to answer my question.

You're not being very clear. What was the question I missed?

I colored it red now, see above.

Jehovah God had the final decision as to whether or not Job and mankind would be tested to prove their loyalty to Him. He ALLOWED Satan to attack Job with all kinds of problems. I believe I have already said this in my posts.

I don't see you've already answered about God as has the final decision.
Is "allowing" not taking part of the attack?

No. Jehovah allows Satan to run the present world. Jehovah is not part of Satan's rule. He's giving the Devil the opportunity to prove that the world doesn't need God and can run itself without Him. How is Satan measuring up? It won't be long before Jehovah says, "Enough!" and will bring Satan's rule to an end.

[Capbook]

That's right, as I said before. God allows bad things to happen, but He does not cause them. The trials are Satan's.

If God does not allow Satan's trial would it happen or not?

It would not.

Then who do you think have the final decision?

Onewithhim, I believe you missed to answer my question.

You're not being very clear. What was the question I missed?

I colored it red now, see above.

Jehovah God had the final decision as to whether or not Job and mankind would be tested to prove their loyalty to Him. He ALLOWED Satan to attack Job with all kinds of problems. I believe I have already said this in my posts.

I don't see you've already answered about God as has the final decision.
Is "allowing" not taking part of the attack?

No. Jehovah allows Satan to run the present world. Jehovah is not part of Satan's rule. He's giving the Devil the opportunity to prove that the world doesn't need God and can run itself without Him. How is Satan measuring up? It won't be long before Jehovah says, "Enough!" and will bring Satan's rule to an end.

If you allow your child to to take the exam and passed.
Are you not part of the child's success by allowing?

[onewithhim]

If God does not allow Satan's trial would it happen or not?

It would not.

Then who do you think have the final decision?

Onewithhim, I believe you missed to answer my question.

You're not being very clear. What was the question I missed?

I colored it red now, see above.

Jehovah God had the final decision as to whether or not Job and mankind would be tested to prove their loyalty to Him. He ALLOWED Satan to attack Job with all kinds of problems. I believe I have already said this in my posts.

I don't see you've already answered about God as has the final decision.
Is "allowing" not taking part of the attack?

No. Jehovah allows Satan to run the present world. Jehovah is not part of Satan's rule. He's giving the Devil the opportunity to prove that the world doesn't need God and can run itself without Him. How is Satan measuring up? It won't be long before Jehovah says, "Enough!" and will bring Satan's rule to an end.

If you allow your child to to take the exam and passed.
Are you not part of the child's success by allowing?

Not necessarily. Satan has the non-success of his lousy rule squarely on his own shoulders. Jehovah has allowed Satan to prove his own legitimacy and he has failed. Now there can never be another accusation against Jehovah, the only true God and Sovereign.

[Capbook]

It would not.

Then who do you think have the final decision?

Onewithhim, I believe you missed to answer my question.

You're not being very clear. What was the question I missed?

I colored it red now, see above.

Jehovah God had the final decision as to whether or not Job and mankind would be tested to prove their loyalty to Him. He ALLOWED Satan to attack Job with all kinds of problems. I believe I have already said this in my posts.

I don't see you've already answered about God as has the final decision.
Is "allowing" not taking part of the attack?

No. Jehovah allows Satan to run the present world. Jehovah is not part of Satan's rule. He's giving the Devil the opportunity to prove that the world doesn't need God and can run itself without Him. How is Satan measuring up? It won't be long before Jehovah says, "Enough!" and will bring Satan's rule to an end.

If you allow your child to to take the exam and passed.
Are you not part of the child's success by allowing?

Not necessarily. Satan has the non-success of his lousy rule squarely on his own shoulders. Jehovah has allowed Satan to prove his own legitimacy and he has failed. Now there can never be another accusation against Jehovah, the only true God and Sovereign.

You did not answer the question about the child.
Do you thing your child would passed the exam if you did not allow him/her to take the exam?

[onewithhim]

Then who do you think have the final decision?

Onewithhim, I believe you missed to answer my question.

You're not being very clear. What was the question I missed?

I colored it red now, see above.

Jehovah God had the final decision as to whether or not Job and mankind would be tested to prove their loyalty to Him. He ALLOWED Satan to attack Job with all kinds of problems. I believe I have already said this in my posts.

I don't see you've already answered about God as has the final decision.
Is "allowing" not taking part of the attack?

No. Jehovah allows Satan to run the present world. Jehovah is not part of Satan's rule. He's giving the Devil the opportunity to prove that the world doesn't need God and can run itself without Him. How is Satan measuring up? It won't be long before Jehovah says, "Enough!" and will bring Satan's rule to an end.

If you allow your child to to take the exam and passed.
Are you not part of the child's success by allowing?

Not necessarily. Satan has the non-success of his lousy rule squarely on his own shoulders. Jehovah has allowed Satan to prove his own legitimacy and he has failed. Now there can never be another accusation against Jehovah, the only true God and Sovereign.

You did not answer the question about the child.
Do you thing your child would passed the exam if you did not allow him/her to take the exam?

Of course not. How would he "pass" if he didn't even take the test?

[Capbook]

[/color][/b]

Onewithhim, I believe you missed to answer my question.

You're not being very clear. What was the question I missed?

I colored it red now, see above.

Jehovah God had the final decision as to whether or not Job and mankind would be tested to prove their loyalty to Him. He ALLOWED Satan to attack Job with all kinds of problems. I believe I have already said this in my posts.

I don't see you've already answered about God as has the final decision.
Is "allowing" not taking part of the attack?

No. Jehovah allows Satan to run the present world. Jehovah is not part of Satan's rule. He's giving the Devil the opportunity to prove that the world doesn't need God and can run itself without Him. How is Satan measuring up? It won't be long before Jehovah says, "Enough!" and will bring Satan's rule to an end.

If you allow your child to to take the exam and passed.
Are you not part of the child's success by allowing?

Not necessarily. Satan has the non-success of his lousy rule squarely on his own shoulders. Jehovah has allowed Satan to prove his own legitimacy and he has failed. Now there can never be another accusation against Jehovah, the only true God and Sovereign.

You did not answer the question about the child.
Do you thing your child would passed the exam if you did not allow him/her to take the exam?

Of course not. How would he "pass" if he didn't even take the test?

Yes, by allowing you are part of the result then? Yes or no.

[William]

Re the biblical God.

In the Hebrew Bible, Satan appears less like an embodiment of pure evil and more as a figure who works within God's framework, sometimes even at God's direction. This depiction makes Satan seem less like an adversary in a cosmic struggle and more like a member of the divine council with specific functions. Let’s unpack this.

1. Satan as the "Accuser" or "Adversary"
The Hebrew term ha-satan (הַשָּׂטָן), literally "the accuser" or "the adversary," does not imply a fully independent, malevolent entity but rather a function or role within God’s divine council. In this context, Satan’s role is to question, challenge, and test human beings, almost like a prosecuting attorney in the court of divine justice.

A classic example is found in the Book of Job, where Satan appears not as God’s enemy but as a member of the divine assembly. In this story, he questions Job's loyalty, suggesting that Job is only righteous because he has been blessed by God. With God’s permission, Satan then tests Job, essentially fulfilling a role that serves the larger divine plan, rather than acting in opposition to it.

2. Divine Council and Heavenly Court
Ancient Israelite beliefs often described a divine council or assembly where God presided over various spiritual beings or “sons of God” (bene ha-elohim). Satan is one of these beings, and his function appears to be one of scrutiny or opposition, acting in a capacity that serves God’s purpose rather than opposing it.

In texts like Zechariah 3:1-2, Satan acts in a similar "accuser" role, bringing charges against the high priest Joshua. Here again, there’s no suggestion that Satan is in rebellion or out of alignment with God’s will; instead, he functions as part of a system of checks and balances, emphasizing the importance of justice and righteousness.

3. Satan as an Aspect of Divine Sovereignty
Some scholars interpret these early depictions of Satan as aspects of divine sovereignty, where God encompasses both the capacity for blessing and testing. Since God is seen as the ultimate authority, it follows that even adversarial forces fall under God's control and serve his purpose.

In this sense, Satan could be seen as a "shadow" aspect of God’s personality, embodying necessary elements of justice, scrutiny, and even the harsher realities of divine justice that must exist for the full expression of divine order. This duality allows God to be both merciful and just, with Satan symbolizing the boundary where moral testing and judgment occur.

4. The Transition to a More Oppositional Satan
The concept of Satan as a malevolent, independent force becomes more prominent during the Second Temple period, influenced by Zoroastrianism and other dualistic beliefs encountered during and after the Babylonian Exile. Here, Satan starts to take on more of an adversarial role, one separate from God’s will and intent.

By the New Testament era, Satan’s role had evolved into that of a cosmic antagonist, symbolizing rebellion against God and becoming associated with fallen angels, personal sin, and evil. This evolution allowed for a clear-cut dualism in Christian theology, with Satan as the primary antagonist to God’s goodness, a far cry from his earlier portrayal as part of God’s divine order.

5. Symbolic Interpretation: God’s “Other Face”
From a symbolic standpoint, some scholars argue that Satan could be interpreted as an "aspect" of God’s personality—one that represents challenge, judgment, and the complexities of moral testing. In early texts, there’s an implication that God’s relationship with humanity is not one-sided or purely benevolent but also includes the necessity for discipline and ethical rigor.

This interpretation can be seen as an ancient way of grappling with the complexities of life’s challenges and suffering, attributing them to an aspect of divine will. By incorporating both blessing and testing within the same divine personality, these stories provide a holistic view of divine involvement in human affairs.

6. Theological Reflection on the Unity of God’s Will
The depiction of Satan as working within God’s framework might suggest a theological unity in the Hebrew Bible, where all aspects of reality—both rewarding and challenging—are ultimately encompassed within God’s will. This is sometimes called "monistic" theology, where there is no true “other” opposing God but rather a single, all-encompassing divine order that includes all forces and personalities.

In this light, Satan functions as an extension of God’s will, providing a means for humanity to confront its own moral integrity and devotion. It emphasizes the notion that moral and spiritual growth requires both encouragement and challenge, both aspects serving a unified purpose in the journey of faith.

In Summary
In the Old Testament, Satan appears more as an agent of divine justice and moral scrutiny than as a symbol of pure evil, suggesting a complex view of divine order where both mercy and challenge are essential.

This early depiction provides a richer, more nuanced view of divine justice, where adversity and testing are seen as integral to God’s relationship with humanity, allowing the development of a more holistic moral framework. Over time, however, as theological views evolved, the idea of Satan shifted from a functional role in God's plan to a symbol of independent, opposing evil, shaping the dualistic narratives we’re familiar with in later religious tradition.

[1213]

Re the biblical God.

In the Hebrew Bible, Satan appears less like an embodiment of pure evil ...

I have difficulties to see him anything else than embodiment of evil, because he deceives people right from the beginning and leads them to death.

[William]

Re the biblical God.

In the Hebrew Bible, Satan appears less like an embodiment of pure evil ...

I have difficulties to see him anything else than embodiment of evil, because he deceives people right from the beginning and leads them to death.

"It’s understandable why you might see Satan as an embodiment of pure evil, especially if we focus on the story of the Garden of Eden, where the serpent’s deception leads to the ‘fall’ of humanity and eventual death. But what’s fascinating is that in the Hebrew Bible, Satan’s role is often more nuanced. For example, many scholars interpret the serpent in Eden not as Satan but as a symbol of temptation, representing humanity’s choice and free will rather than an external force of pure evil.

"When Satan does appear explicitly in the Hebrew Bible—as in Job—he isn’t deceiving people independently or maliciously but rather operating with God’s permission, testing people’s faith and integrity as a way to strengthen them. Seen this way, the role of testing, even when challenging or uncomfortable, can ultimately be part of the journey towards spiritual growth. In this light, ‘death’ might not only represent physical death but also a symbolic passage or transformation, a recurring theme in spiritual traditions worldwide."

"Also, it’s worth considering Near-Death Experiences (NDEs) as a perspective here. Many who have had NDEs report that death isn’t the ‘end’ but rather a continuation or expansion of existence, one often marked by insights into the meaning of life, love, and spiritual growth. Such accounts hint that life’s challenges and tests might be ways of preparing us for something more profound beyond physical life."

"So, rather than seeing Satan as solely a deceiver leading people to ruin, maybe this figure also represents the trials that are integral to the journey of faith, pushing us to make conscious, meaningful choices. These perspectives—both ancient texts and modern accounts like NDEs—invite us to think of the spiritual journey as more complex than a simple battle between good and evil. Could it be that even the tough tests, symbolized by figures like Satan, play a role in a larger, divinely orchestrated plan?"