If Trump wins, will 2024 be the year of the last free election in the U.S.?

[Tcg]

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We almost didn't have one in 2020? Will 2024 be our last if Trump wins?


Tcg

[AgnosticBoy]

As for the concerns about Trump and free elections, I don't believe his winning again will change free elections. Trump has term limits to abide by and this would be his last term if he wins. So there won't be a future presidential election for him to complain about.

Hitler was elected, but after that he did away with opposing politicians, impertinent journalists, anybody who opposed him, and elected himself to be the permanent father of the Reich.

So it's happened before, and all democracies need to ensure that the democratic election process lives on for them and theirs.

Anything is possible, but for now, I only see evidence that Trump wanted a second term as opposed to wanting to remain president for the rest of his life. He thought he was denied a second term because of election fraud, and he incited an insurrection (or was negligent in stopping it, at the least) with the goal of getting a second term. If Trump ever takes actual steps that would show that he wants to stay president beyond that, then the likelihood of your scenario happening increases.

This is one reason I think a one-party government is dangerous because that is more likely to create the grounds for power to be abused and for a dictator to come out of that. There would be little to no opposition to that.

Besides that, I think we already have a two-party dictatorship on other levels of our government as I brought in in my last post. The options for president are restricted to those parties. We need a system that makes it fair and easy for any one and any party to be able to run for president.

[oldbadger]

Anything is possible, but for now, I only see evidence that Trump wanted a second term as opposed to wanting to remain president for the rest of his life. He thought he was denied a second term because of election fraud, and he incited an insurrection (or was negligent in stopping it, at the least) with the goal of getting a second term. If Trump ever takes actual steps that would show that he wants to stay president beyond that, then the likelihood of your scenario happening increases.

This is one reason I think a one-party government is dangerous because that is more likely to create the grounds for power to be abused and for a dictator to come out of that. There would be little to no opposition to that.

Besides that, I think we already have a two-party dictatorship on other levels of our government as I brought in in my last post. The options for president are restricted to those parties. We need a system that makes it fair and easy for any one and any party to be able to run for president.

After the events of this week I think you've got Mr Trump for yet another term.

Good luck.

[Realworldjack]

[Replying to Tcg in post #1]

I think it may be possible that we have already witnessed our last free election. Christian nationalists are behind Trump, and they are plainly telling us what they intend to do with another Trump presidency, and all one has to do is to read "Project 2025". We have already witnessed what happens if Trump loses, and there are those who have told us that Jan. 6th was an attempt to end democracy. This time, these folks are far more organized, and I am afraid they just may have what it takes to pull the whole thing off. I have never voted for a democrat because I do not like the policies. However, as Liz Cheney has said, "we have demonstrated that we can withstand bad policy, but we cannot withstand those who are a threat to democracy".

[oldbadger]

[Replying to Tcg in post #1]

I think it may be possible that we have already witnessed our last free election. Christian nationalists are behind Trump, and they are plainly telling us what they intend to do with another Trump presidency, and all one has to do is to read "Project 2025". We have already witnessed what happens if Trump loses, and there are those who have told us that Jan. 6th was an attempt to end democracy. This time, these folks are far more organized, and I am afraid they just may have what it takes to pull the whole thing off. I have never voted for a democrat because I do not like the policies. However, as Liz Cheney has said, "we have demonstrated that we can withstand bad policy, but we cannot withstand those who are a threat to democracy".

Maybe this time you could vote....you'd be voting for freedom of choice....no?

[AgnosticBoy]

I'm of the view that both parties are doing things to undermine Democracy, but I want to expose the Democrats more since they are using that point the most. We all know why Trump is said to be a threat to democracy, but what of the Democrats?

1. Election interference. 3 or 4 Democrat controlled states tried to bar Trump from appearing on their states ballots because of Jan. 6. The Supreme Court ruled in favor of Trump because Trump was not tried nor convicted of any insurrection by any courts nor by Congress.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/0 ... t-00144808

2. Democrats have also made efforts to keep third-party candidates off of state ballots. Dems. have tried to keep RFK Jr. off of some state ballots. Democrats have also tried to keep the "No Label" party off of Arizona's state ballot.

Both instances amount to voter suppression/election interference by limiting who can run and who voters can vote for.

[oldbadger]

I'm of the view that both parties are doing things to undermine Democracy, but I want to expose the Democrats more since they are using that point the most. We all know why Trump is said to be a threat to democracy, but what of the Democrats?

1. Election interference. 3 or 4 Democrat controlled states tried to bar Trump from appearing on their states ballots because of Jan. 6. The Supreme Court ruled in favor of Trump because Trump was not tried nor convicted of any insurrection by any courts nor by Congress.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/0 ... t-00144808

2. Democrats have also made efforts to keep third-party candidates off of state ballots. Dems. have tried to keep RFK Jr. off of some state ballots. Democrats have also tried to keep the "No Label" party off of Arizona's state ballot.

Both instances amount to voter suppression/election interference by limiting who can run and who voters can vote for.

You had best vote for who you believe in.

But remember, a huge majority of Germans believed in Hitler, who promised to make Germany Great again. And look at what happened to them.

[Purple Knight]

I'm of the view that both parties are doing things to undermine Democracy, but I want to expose the Democrats more since they are using that point the most. We all know why Trump is said to be a threat to democracy, but what of the Democrats?

1. Election interference. 3 or 4 Democrat controlled states tried to bar Trump from appearing on their states ballots because of Jan. 6. The Supreme Court ruled in favor of Trump because Trump was not tried nor convicted of any insurrection by any courts nor by Congress.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/0 ... t-00144808

2. Democrats have also made efforts to keep third-party candidates off of state ballots. Dems. have tried to keep RFK Jr. off of some state ballots. Democrats have also tried to keep the "No Label" party off of Arizona's state ballot.

Both instances amount to voter suppression/election interference by limiting who can run and who voters can vote for.

This is exactly what I mean. We already don't have free elections. The instant one side (or both sides) don't fundamentally agree that policy disputes are rightly settled by a fair political process, there aren't really elections anymore. You have two competing theocracies that neither of them believe in the process, both just think their way is right, and that they can undermine the political process because all it can do if they don't rig the game is let the bad guys win, and that'd be bad. We have pretend elections. We have a two-party monopoly as you said, and we don't have real elections even between them.

[AgnosticBoy]

You had best vote for who you believe in.

But remember, a huge majority of Germans believed in Hitler, who promised to make Germany Great again. And look at what happened to them.

Hitler also hated Stalin and vice versa while the two were essentially the same. Politics nowadays, given the choices, is just picking your poison.

[oldbadger]

Hitler also hated Stalin and vice versa while the two were essentially the same. Politics nowadays, given the choices, is just picking your poison.

Then it might be best to avoid any poison.

[AgnosticBoy]

Hitler also hated Stalin and vice versa while the two were essentially the same. Politics nowadays, given the choices, is just picking your poison.

Then it might be best to avoid any poison.

Sure, and I think one response to that has been the amounts of Americans that no longer commit to the Democrat and Republican parties and are instead choosing to become Independents. Independents now make up the largest group of voters in the US.

But we need more than just independent voters, we also need more independent candidates to vote for - something more than the two-party monopoly we have now. That will give Americans more and better choices, which should all be part of "free" elections anyways.