Does Hell Exist?

[Data]

The question for debate is does hell exist? If so, what does the Bible teach hell is?

[onewithhim]

Revelation is a convoluted, allegorical swamp! I just don't think its practical to treat the book as a theological jigsaw puzzle and search for doctrinal meanings. Are you afraid of going to hell? Is that the motivation for your interest in hell, or is it simply curiosity for its own sake? Maybe study Jeremiah 19: 4-8. Jeremiah condemns people who burned children in the valley of Hinnom,'Gen Hinnom, Gehenna in later Greek, hence 'hell'. He said it would never enter God's mind to burn anyone, but he would actually get rid of Gen Hinnom by filling it with Jewish corpses during the Babylonian invasion. Thus changing its memorial from, the Gehenna of burnt offerings, where the flames of child sacrifice never seemed to stop, to the valley of slaughter, where those responsible for such atrocities, will feed the birds with their corpses. It doesn't matter that several centuries later people used this valley as a reference to an unpleasant afterlife, which their minds fabricated, not God's.

"Hell" does not come from "Gehenna." Hell comes from "Hades," and is misconstrued as a place of everlasting fire where people are consciously tortured forever. It is wrong to equate Hell with Gehenna. They are two different things. "Hell" [Hades] is mankind's common GRAVE, and "Gehenna" is symbolic for eternal destruction, like a stick is burned up and comes to nothing in a fire.

Revelation is interesting and meaningful to those who are helped by God's Holy Spirit to understand. "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein." (Revelation 1:3, KJV) Young's literal translation puts it this way: "Happy is he who is reading, and those hearing the words of the prophecy, and keeping the things written in it."

So if we read it and understand it, and follow its admonition, we will be happy. So why consider it convoluted swamp? It shows what has happened and what will happen in the near future.

[Yozavan]

I changed my response, because I'm not certain about this stuff

[onewithhim]

I'm not Christian. I don't play the sport, however myriads of radically different Christian views on every single verse, indicate that they don't play it either! Confusion begets confusion, nothing more. Maybe that's the Christian hell.

That's why we have to figure out which is the TRUE Christian view. I'm not saying which one it is here, so it's up to you to find which one follows Jesus the closest. What did Jesus teach? That is easy to see. Who loves people and wouldn't kill another person in war? Not even an enemy. (Matthew 5:44,45) If they did they might be killing someone of their own religion, which doesn't bother most religions. Jesus did not teach the Trinity or hell-fire. Which religion does not teach them as well? Which religion glorifies God's name and uses it proudly? (John 17:6,26) There is more, and nothing is really solid spiritual food after the first century. The great Apostacy came into being and smudged Christian teaching. (Acts 20:29,30) So it is possible to figure out what the teaching of Christ really is, by going back to the Source, Jesus' own words. Not the words of so-called Christians such as those in the 4th century who contradicted the Scriptures with the decision that Jesus is part of a trinity.

(I love watching the birds also. I have a small feeder for the little birds and a large one for the large birds like Cardinals. I put up a water bath for them where they can bathe and drink. Their bird calls are so enjoyable.)

[onewithhim]

I'm not Christian. I don't play the sport, however myriads of radically different Christian views on every single verse, indicate that they don't play it either! Confusion begets confusion, nothing more. Maybe that's the Christian hell.

That's why we have to figure out which is the TRUE Christian view. I'm not saying which one it is here, so it's up to you to find which one follows Jesus the closest. What did Jesus teach? That is easy to see. Who loves people and wouldn't kill another person in war? Not even an enemy. (Matthew 5:44,45) If they did they might be killing someone of their own religion, which doesn't bother most religions. Jesus did not teach the Trinity or hell-fire. Which religion does not teach them as well? Which religion glorifies God's name and uses it proudly? (John 17:6,26) There is more, and nothing is really solid spiritual food after the first century. The great Apostacy came into being and smudged Christian teaching. (Acts 20:29,30) So it is possible to figure out what the teaching of Christ really is, by going back to the Source, Jesus' own words. Not the words of so-called Christians such as those in the 4th century who contradicted the Scriptures with the decision that Jesus is part of a trinity.

(I love watching the birds also. I have a small feeder for the little birds and a large one for the large birds like Cardinals. I put up a water bath for them where they can bathe and drink. Their bird calls are so enjoyable.)

.

[Capbook]

That billboard is misleading. A fiery hell does not exist, and "Hell" means mankind's grave. God would not want to see anyone being tortured forever with no way out. The "lake of fire" in Revelation 20:15 is a symbol of the annihilation of the evil person. It is just as symbolic as the casting of death and hell into the lake of fire. (Verse 14.) How can death actually be cast anywhere? How can hell be cast into itself?

Most King James Version Bibles have in the footnote for Rev. 20:14: Hell is "Greek for Hades, or, the grave." How does one argue with that?

Death and hell being cast into the lake of fire means that death and the grave will no longer be realities. They will be eradicated forever.

How the death and hell eradicated forever?
Is it not by burning? Rev 19:20.
Is burning also still a symbol?

Yes it is. Burning is a symbol of complete destruction. Tell me, according to your thinking, how can death and hell be thrown anywhere? Can you pick up death and throw it?

Yes, the result of burning is destruction (not a symbol). Death will be put into destruction. The word "cast" (thrown) is used in that verse and one meaning is "to put into".
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

[onewithhim]

That billboard is misleading. A fiery hell does not exist, and "Hell" means mankind's grave. God would not want to see anyone being tortured forever with no way out. The "lake of fire" in Revelation 20:15 is a symbol of the annihilation of the evil person. It is just as symbolic as the casting of death and hell into the lake of fire. (Verse 14.) How can death actually be cast anywhere? How can hell be cast into itself?

Most King James Version Bibles have in the footnote for Rev. 20:14: Hell is "Greek for Hades, or, the grave." How does one argue with that?

Death and hell being cast into the lake of fire means that death and the grave will no longer be realities. They will be eradicated forever.

How the death and hell eradicated forever?
Is it not by burning? Rev 19:20.
Is burning also still a symbol?

Yes it is. Burning is a symbol of complete destruction. Tell me, according to your thinking, how can death and hell be thrown anywhere? Can you pick up death and throw it?

Yes, the result of burning is destruction (not a symbol). Death will be put into destruction. The word "cast" (thrown) is used in that verse and one meaning is "to put into".
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

That's right. Casting into the lake of fire means destruction. It is not a literalthrowing of death and Hades into a lake of fire. You can't throw death and Hades anywhere.

[myth-one.com]

As I understand Clark's Commentary, death refers to the wicked dead. When we die the flesh returns to the ground and breath of God separates return to God. Just like Adam, mold from the ground, God breath of life (spirit) into his nostrils and become a living soul.
In this verse, the wicked dead's spirit need not separate as no place for it. Joined together to suffer second death, which destroyed through eternity.

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

[And death and hell were cast into the lake] Death himself is now abolished, and the place for separate spirits no longer needful. All dead bodies and separated souls being rejoined, and no more separation of bodies and souls by death to take place, consequently the existence of these things is no further necessary.

[This is the second death.] The first death consisted in the separation of the soul from the body for a season; the second death in the separation of body and soul from God forever. The first death is that from which there may be a resurrection; the second death is that from which there can be no recovery. By the first the body is destroyed during time; by the second, body and soul are destroyed through eternity.
(from Adam Clarke's Commentary)

Clarke needs to study the Bible.

Every human who has ever died will be resurrected to life again:

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (I Corinthians 15:22-23)

And Clarke apparently believes Satan's lie that mankind is born with an immortal soul:


And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: (Genesis 3:4)

No one who believes the immortal soul myth can understand the scriptures. That is how Satan seals the scriptures from man's understanding! Clarke is a good example of how Satan tricks mankind into believing they have a soul which lives forever.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #287]

People believe that the soul and spirit are the same thing. False religion has completely confused their flocks by teaching contradictions. In Ezekiel 18:4 we are told that "the soul that is sinning will die." The soul is not immortal.

[Capbook]

That billboard is misleading. A fiery hell does not exist, and "Hell" means mankind's grave. God would not want to see anyone being tortured forever with no way out. The "lake of fire" in Revelation 20:15 is a symbol of the annihilation of the evil person. It is just as symbolic as the casting of death and hell into the lake of fire. (Verse 14.) How can death actually be cast anywhere? How can hell be cast into itself?

Most King James Version Bibles have in the footnote for Rev. 20:14: Hell is "Greek for Hades, or, the grave." How does one argue with that?

Death and hell being cast into the lake of fire means that death and the grave will no longer be realities. They will be eradicated forever.

How the death and hell eradicated forever?
Is it not by burning? Rev 19:20.
Is burning also still a symbol?

Yes it is. Burning is a symbol of complete destruction. Tell me, according to your thinking, how can death and hell be thrown anywhere? Can you pick up death and throw it?

Yes, the result of burning is destruction (not a symbol). Death will be put into destruction. The word "cast" (thrown) is used in that verse and one meaning is "to put into".
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

That's right. Casting into the lake of fire means destruction. It is not a literalthrowing of death and Hades into a lake of fire. You can't throw death and Hades anywhere.

The Greek word of cast is "ballo" and definitions are cast out, put, send etc.

βάλλω ballō
A primary verb; to throw (in various applications, more or less violent or intense): - arise, cast (out), X dung, lay, lie, pour, put (up), send, strike, throw (down), thrust. Compare G4496.

And who do you think commit sin and be brought to ashes by fire in Ezek 20:18?

[Capbook]

As I understand Clark's Commentary, death refers to the wicked dead. When we die the flesh returns to the ground and breath of God separates return to God. Just like Adam, mold from the ground, God breath of life (spirit) into his nostrils and become a living soul.
In this verse, the wicked dead's spirit need not separate as no place for it. Joined together to suffer second death, which destroyed through eternity.

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

[And death and hell were cast into the lake] Death himself is now abolished, and the place for separate spirits no longer needful. All dead bodies and separated souls being rejoined, and no more separation of bodies and souls by death to take place, consequently the existence of these things is no further necessary.

[This is the second death.] The first death consisted in the separation of the soul from the body for a season; the second death in the separation of body and soul from God forever. The first death is that from which there may be a resurrection; the second death is that from which there can be no recovery. By the first the body is destroyed during time; by the second, body and soul are destroyed through eternity.
(from Adam Clarke's Commentary)

Clarke needs to study the Bible.

Every human who has ever died will be resurrected to life again:

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (I Corinthians 15:22-23)

And Clarke apparently believes Satan's lie that mankind is born with an immortal soul:


And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: (Genesis 3:4)

No one who believes the immortal soul myth can understand the scriptures. That is how Satan seals the scriptures from man's understanding! Clarke is a good example of how Satan tricks mankind into believing they have a soul which lives forever.

I believe you just missed the "in Christ" in verse 22, and the "they that are Christ" means in verse 23. Those you mentioned "The every human who has ever died will be resurrected to life again" are those who are Christians.

They that are Christ’s - They who are Christians. The apostle, though in 1Co 15:22 he had stated the truth that “all” the dead would rise, yet here only mentions Christians, because to them only would the doctrine be of any consolation, and because it was to them particularly that this whole argument was directed. (Barne's)