What's wrong with being gay?

[Daedalus X]

This thread is a continuation of an off topic conversation from here.

First, I think that we all agree that it's important to promote understanding, respect, and equality for all individuals, regardless of their sexual orientation. Everyone should be treated with dignity and allowed to express their identity without fear of discrimination or harm.


Question for debate is LGTBQIA2S+ a harmless social contagion, or are there serious unintended consequences awaiting the individuals and societies that are going down this road?

[Clownboat]

Sir I am not afraid of no one. I am 95 kg. 1.8m big guy who know how to fight and who has never lost one in his entire life.
I would say exactly the same words. Zero fear.

You would not speak to my face the way you do here. Of this I have no doubt. Here, you have your keyboard to hide behind and you know nothing about me as a person. Your faith in your own ability is therefore unjustified.

Q: Why should I make a half ass job?

You have been making less then half ass arguments for additional bullying laws, surely you agree with this. You literally want something, but know nothing about that which you want. If you had any anti bullying laws or even points to make, you would have made them by now.

Then stop making accusation of bulling and equating bulling with ridicule.

Post 104: alexxcJRO said: "Bulling is evil and malevolent. Plain and simple. Its just cruelty for the sake of cruelty as a fun endeavour."
Is it cruel to call someone a moron or is that kind behavior?
Is it cruel to accuse someone of having memory issues when trying to have a conversation, or is that kind behavior?
Is it cruel to accuse someone in a debate setting of having poor debate form, or is that kind behavior?

Post 107: alexxcJRO said: "We should strive for a society where we have less instances of evil, malevolence and cruelty."
Oh the irony! Perhaps you had a memory laps?

Sorry, I call them as I see them. Your keyboard is what protects you here. You would not be so cavalier to call me names in public nor would you insult my intelligence the way you do here nor my ability to debate. You're just mad because I called out your virtue signaling and your inability to offer up anything beyond virtue signaling is the evidences that my claim was correct.

Clownboat's first post to alexxcJRO in this thread was post 111:
Neato! Now how do you measure bullying? On a scale of 1 - 100?
At what point do fines kick in? At a score of 25?
How about jail time? Would that be at 50 and above?
Death penalty? 85 or higher on your bullying scale?

Is there an age limit? Would toddlers in daycare be subjected to punishment for continuing to steal the pacifier of another toddler for example?

When I see bullying, I intercede. So I am very much against bullying, but I also recognize a pipe dream when I see one. Perhaps you will be able to clarify the bullying scale and age limit though so it can make sense to the rest of us an not sound like virtue signaling?

All these pages later and all we have is a pipe dream about making unknown bullying laws and a virtuous sounding argument about how society should strive to have less evil, malevolence and cruelty.

If you have anything worthwhile to discuss that might inhibit bullying, please offer it up. If you only care about how you sound in front of others, then that horse is a dead and bloodied corpse.

[Clownboat]

You completely ignored my post which explained some of the UK laws that address various kinds of bullying.

The record will show that I in fact did respond to your post. You couldn't be more wrong.

Furthermore, I asked you this: "Do you support additional bullying laws?"
You linked to existing laws.

At least the odd sock day was something I found in one of your links (even though you claimed I ignored them) that seemed like a good idea, but you would rather pretend that I ignored your post then to respond to my response to it.
It's a shame, but I'm under the impression that sounding virtuous is the goal, not actually trying to do anything to inhibit bullying.

Be well.

[oldbadger]

You completely ignored my post which explained some of the UK laws that address various kinds of bullying.

The record will show that I in fact did respond to your post. You couldn't be more wrong.

Furthermore, I asked you this: "Do you support additional bullying laws?"
You linked to existing laws.

At least the odd sock day was something I found in one of your links (even though you claimed I ignored them) that seemed like a good idea, but you would rather pretend that I ignored your post then to respond to my response to it.
It's a shame, but I'm under the impression that sounding virtuous is the goal, not actually trying to do anything to inhibit bullying.

Be well.

Come on CB, you have never a knowledged just how many laws we have on the UK which can cover bullying, in the workplace, school and in public places. (UK)
There will be more soon to cover IT bullying.

And to think that you took so long to U-Turn with your beliefs.

[Clownboat]

Come on CB, you have never a knowledged just how many laws we have on the UK which can cover bullying, in the workplace, school and in public places. (UK)
There will be more soon to cover IT bullying.

If you can point out an existing bullying law that you would like to discuss, let me know and I'll acknowledge it for you.
Copy/paste for the 2nd time to save time and sanity: Furthermore, I asked you this: "Do you support additional bullying laws?"

And to think that you took so long to U-Turn with your beliefs.

Again to save time and sanity: "I am all for considering bullying laws. I think you are confused because I made arguments about how identifying bullies can be a benefit to society and issues with making bullying a crime."

Let me know if you ever decide to want to discuss actions additional laws (your and alexxcJRO's proposed way) or odd sock days (more what I have in mind and from one of your links ironically) that society could enact that might inhibit bullying.

[alexxcJRO]

You would not speak to my face the way you do here. Of this I have no doubt. Here, you have your keyboard to hide behind and you know nothing about me as a person. Your faith in your own ability is therefore unjustified.
... Your keyboard is what protects you here. You would not be so cavalier to call me names in public nor would you insult my intelligence the way you do here nor my ability to debate. You're just mad because I called out your virtue signaling and your inability to offer up anything beyond virtue signaling is the evidences that my claim was correct.

Q: But how do you know though?
You can't. Pretending to know what you can't know.
Q: Are you omniscient?
Whining about unjustified beliefs while having one! Comical!
As the whole exchange here with you.

You have been making less then half ass arguments for additional bullying laws, surely you agree with this. You literally want something, but know nothing about that which you want. If you had any anti bullying laws or even points to make, you would have made them by now.

The dishonest debate tactics continues. I did not make arguments for additional bullying laws.
I was arguing for existence of laws for bulling online or otherwise(specially in Romania). You were not. Then you changed like the weather suddenly.

Is it cruel to call someone a moron or is that kind behavior?
Is it cruel to accuse someone of having memory issues when trying to have a conversation, or is that kind behavior?
Is it cruel to accuse someone in a debate setting of having poor debate form, or is that kind behavior?

Cruelty does not equal bulling.
Ridicule does not equal bulling.
One time calling somone something does not equal bulling.
One time shoving one with the head in the toilet does not equal bulling.

Post 107: alexxcJRO said: "We should strive for a society where we have less instances of evil, malevolence and cruelty."

Complete pacifism is a broken ideology.
I was not talking of complete lack of malevolence.
Superman malevolence against Zod is justified.
Pointing to dishonest tactics in debate is justified.
Don't bore me please.

All these pages later and all we have is a pipe dream about making unknown bullying laws and a virtuous sounding argument about how society should strive to have less evil, malevolence and cruelty.

If you have anything worthwhile to discuss that might inhibit bullying, please offer it up. If you only care about how you sound in front of others, then that horse is a dead and bloodied corpse.

So to stop the whining:

Bulling that occurs in schools/colleges/work-places

Definition of the offense:
"The repeated behaviour of a person over a span of time(days, weeks, months, years)who hurts or frightens someone smaller or less powerful, often forcing that person to do something they do not want to do:
Bullying is the use of force, coercion, hurtful teasing or threat, to abuse, aggressively dominate or intimidate. The behavior is repeated and habitual. One essential prerequisite is the perception (by the bully or by others) of an imbalance of physical or social power. This imbalance distinguishes bullying from conflict. Bullying is a subcategory of aggressive behavior characterized by hostile intent, imbalance of power and repetition over a period of time."


Children under 7
No prosecution. Non-moral agent in eyes of the law.

Children between 7-12
No prosecution. Non-moral agents in eyes of the law. Same as before.
But if it can be shown that a child had the maturity to understand the consequence of its actions(board of psychologists) be tried for the crime as per the juvenile justice law.

Teenagers 12-17
Be tried for the crime as per the juvenile justice law.
For 16-18 possibility to be tried as adult if it is deemed so by a a board of psychologists.

Adults >=18
Prosecution for adults.

Possible punishments:
A. Minor and medium cases of bulling:
- child/teenager is send back home with a warning with necessity for the child and parents to undergo counselling
-child/teenager undergoes community services
-the parents/guardians pay a fine
-child/teenager released on probation of good conduct and placed in care of a facility/special home if the
child/teenager is an unfit parental/home environment

B. Serious cases of bulling(serious bodily and psychological harm: victim hospitalization because of physical injuries/victims undergoes serious psychological treatment(PTSD and so on), victim commits suicide):
-child/teenager released on probation of good conduct and placed in a Youth Detention Center
-child/teenager(if tried as adult) can go up to 10 years in prison for aggravated bulling
-adults can go up to 20-30 years in prison for aggravated bulling

[oldbadger]

Again to save time and sanity: "I am all for considering bullying laws. I think you are confused because I made arguments about how identifying bullies can be a benefit to society and issues with making bullying a crime."

Just one of the three UK laws I quoted for you.
The Equality Act of 2010 makes it a crime for anybody who harasses or victimises anybody on the grounds of their disability, age, colour, race, nationality, religion, sexuality, marital status, gender.

You had asked about what laws might be written connected to bullying......I mentioned three that already exist!

[alexxcJRO]

It's a shame, but I'm under the impression that sounding virtuous is the goal, not actually trying to do anything to inhibit bullying.

Be well.

The guy who was against bulling laws(underage critique, subjectivity critique, he said she said situation critique, existence of laws for supposed equivalent offences critique, how its hard to prove-accusing me of bulling in a supposed clever attempt to show this) whines of others because of "not actually trying to do anything to inhibit bullying".
They(me and oldbadger) surely do more then you. Are for starter: for laws for bulling that occurs anywhere: online, school, work and so on.
This is more then rich and comical. This is becoming a tragedy. This is becoming sad.
I am embarrassed to be in the same specie.

[Clownboat]

Q: But how do you know though?

It's a guess based off of my encounters with previous bullies. Bullies are generally not nearly as tough as they believe they are. Also, I doubt you are as rude of a person in public as you are when you feel safe hiding behind your keyboard, but perhaps you do walk around town calling people names.

Q: Are you omniscient?

No.

<Snipped insults in place of debate questions>

That answers 100% of the questions posed to me. I answer debate questions because I'm not afraid to defend my position nor to be convinced to change it if sufficient reasons are presented.

I did not make arguments for additional bullying laws.

I know! If you did, you wouldn't have come across as virtue signaling.

I was arguing for existence of laws for bulling online or otherwise(specially in Romania).

Since you are admittedly are not making arguments for additional bullying laws, it is silly to argue for what you already have.

Do you have any clue whatsoever as to what you desire? I thought you wanted laws to prevent bullying, but now you claim you never made such an argument, so I ask for clarification. Do you post here as an avenue to call people names? It's much safer to do it from behind your keyboard compared to out in public I note.

<Snipped more insults in place of debate>

Cruelty does not equal bulling.

It can though.

Ridicule does not equal bulling.

It can though.

One time calling somone something does not equal bulling.

You're ignoring a group setting. It sure can be bullying.

One time shoving one with the head in the toilet does not equal bulling.

Correct, that would be assault.

<Snipped some odd and off topic comments about pacifism, malevolence and superman>

Definition of the offense:
"The repeated behaviour of a person over a span of time(days, weeks, months, years)who hurts or frightens someone smaller or less powerful, often forcing that person to do something they do not want to do:

Before I call you names numerous times, how can I know how much hurt or fright you are going to feel? I could see people taking advantage of this by lying about their hurt or fright levels. How about you?
If I was not un-frightened of you, nor more powerful, then your actions would fit your supplied definition of bullying. This has been my point for calling out your actions here. I have been honest from the start that your actions, the ones that a bully would also partake in are ineffective on me. As I see it, you act like a bully here, just an ineffective one. If I was frightened of you, or if I was less powerful then yourself, would you then admit to being a bully? Just curious.

Children under 7
No prosecution. Non-moral agent in eyes of the law.

Is this you arguing that children under 7 should not be guilty of committing the crime of bullying? If so, you might be able to get me to agree.

Children between 7-12
No prosecution. Non-moral agents in eyes of the law. Same as before.
But if it can be shown that a child had the maturity to understand the consequence of its actions (board of psychologists) be tried for the crime as per the juvenile justice law.

This is where you start to lose myself and others. It is important that people know they will be guilty of committing a crime before they partake in said action. How can such a person know what a board of psychologists will think or what the maturity level of the other person is?

Teenagers 12-17
Be tried for the crime as per the juvenile justice law.

Twelveteen through seventeen.
I would not like to see calling someone a moron in itself become a possible crime I don't think (and you're not offering up and arguments so far that might change my mind). Where do you stand on that? Should your actions here in this thread really come down to whether or not I could convince a board of psychologist that I'm weak and frightened? If I can, you then deserve to go to prison?

For 16-18 possibility to be tried as adult if it is deemed so by a a board of psychologists.

Got it. So if someone can convince a board of psychologists that they have been bullied, then you would support putting said people in a cage? That's a tough pill to swallow for me. Personally, I like the odd sock day (from oldbadgers link) or even more direct, 'bullies need help and our sympathy' shirt day.

Adults >=18
Prosecution for adults.

You do realize, that you would be prosecuted for bullying if I can convince a board of psychologist that you have bullied me. This is something you want?

Possible punishments:
A. Minor and medium cases of bulling:
- child/teenager is send back home with a warning with necessity for the child and parents to undergo counselling
-child/teenager undergoes community services
-the parents/guardians pay a fine
-child/teenager released on probation of good conduct and placed in care of a facility/special home if the
child/teenager is an unfit parental/home environment

Holy monkeys! No mention of any crime here. You have some support from me!

B. Serious cases of bulling(serious bodily and psychological harm: victim hospitalization because of physical injuries/victims undergoes serious psychological treatment(PTSD and so on), victim commits suicide):

Got it. Is it possible to know how serious calling someone a moron numerous times will be? I ask, because you allude to serious cases. Specifics are needed.

-child/teenager released on probation of good conduct and placed in a Youth Detention Center

Good conduct should be awarded.

-child/teenager(if tried as adult) can go up to 10 years in prison for aggravated bulling

I searched for the term aggravated bullying and got nothing. Therefore, this is hard for me to support. I don't think you deserve any prison time for your actions here for example, even if I could convince a board of psychologist that I'm vulnerable or was frightened by you. For one thing, fear is 100% internal. No one can place fear in another. It's hard for me to support being punished for how much fear a person may or not feel.

-adults can go up to 20-30 years in prison for aggravated bulling

Aggravated bullying is far too meaningless of a term currently. Can you provide an example of what you had in mind that would constitute aggravated bullying?

[Clownboat]

Just one of the three UK laws I quoted for you.
The Equality Act of 2010 makes it a crime for anybody who harasses or victimises anybody on the grounds of their disability, age, colour, race, nationality, religion, sexuality, marital status, gender.

I support this existent act.

You had asked about what laws might be written connected to bullying......I mentioned three that already exist!

I specifically asked you about additional bullying laws and you responded with 3 that already exist.

If you were debating alexxcJRO, he would be calling you names for this. I wonder if you are less powerful or if he might be able to frighten you.
I'm off to consult a board of psychologist.

[Clownboat]

It's a shame, but I'm under the impression that sounding virtuous is the goal, not actually trying to do anything to inhibit bullying.

Be well.

The guy who was against bulling laws(underage critique, subjectivity critique, he said she said situation critique, existence of laws for supposed equivalent offences critique, how its hard to prove-accusing me of bulling in a supposed clever attempt to show this) whines of others because of "not actually trying to do anything to inhibit bullying".
They(me and oldbadger) surely do more then you. Are for starter: for laws for bulling that occurs anywhere: online, school, work and so on.
This is more then rich and comical. This is becoming a tragedy. This is becoming sad.
I am embarrassed to be in the same specie.

Now there is some irony. Not one word in an attempt to show you are not just here to virtue signal. More insults and slander though, which is activities I notice bullies often partake in.

Apparently those kinds of bullies are ok, but the ones that do it to someone that has convinced a board of psychologists that they feel fear or are weaker, those bullies deserve jail time. That is literally the argued for mechanism.

I personally feel that odd sock day or the T-shirt day would be more effective, but don't consider such things because I'm a moron with memory issues that is a poor debater according to our local anti bully person here.