What's wrong with being gay?

[Daedalus X]

This thread is a continuation of an off topic conversation from here.

First, I think that we all agree that it's important to promote understanding, respect, and equality for all individuals, regardless of their sexual orientation. Everyone should be treated with dignity and allowed to express their identity without fear of discrimination or harm.


Question for debate is LGTBQIA2S+ a harmless social contagion, or are there serious unintended consequences awaiting the individuals and societies that are going down this road?

[Clownboat]

My point was that bullying is wrong/evil/malevolent and should be punished no matter who does it. I might be wrong but I don't think so. I rarely am wrong about something.

Neato! Now how do you measure bullying? On a scale of 1 - 100?
At what point do fines kick in? At a score of 25?
How about jail time? Would that be at 50 and above?
Death penalty? 85 or higher on your bullying scale?

Is there an age limit? Would toddlers in daycare be subjected to punishment for continuing to steal the pacifier of another toddler for example?

When I see bullying, I intercede. So I am very much against bullying, but I also recognize a pipe dream when I see one. Perhaps you will be able to clarify the bullying scale and age limit though so it can make sense to the rest of us an not sound like virtue signaling?

[alexxcJRO]

My point was that bullying is wrong/evil/malevolent and should be punished no matter who does it. I might be wrong but I don't think so. I rarely am wrong about something.

Neato! Now how do you measure bullying? On a scale of 1 - 100?
At what point do fines kick in? At a score of 25?
How about jail time? Would that be at 50 and above?
Death penalty? 85 or higher on your bullying scale?

Is there an age limit? Would toddlers in daycare be subjected to punishment for continuing to steal the pacifier of another toddler for example?

When I see bullying, I intercede. So I am very much against bullying, but I also recognize a pipe dream when I see one. Perhaps you will be able to clarify the bullying scale and age limit though so it can make sense to the rest of us an not sound like virtue signaling?

1. Your gonna bore me with: OMG is hard to punish.
Q: Really?
We do it like we did it with stealing and rape and other things.
Imagine if people said it like you did about rape. But its hard. Funny.
I am sure there are solutions.

2. Punishment of toddlers! Q: Really?
Q: Who does punish non-moral agents? Morons?

[oldbadger]

On the other hand the trans activists and gender ideologists are more than willing to completely destroy the lives of people who do little more than misgender someone or question their beliefs. No need for bigotry to rear its ugly head, just an attempt to point people in the direction of reality will result in the mob descending.

What has this to do with the subject of 'Being Gay'? You've got yourself all mixed up, maybe?

[Purple Knight]

My point was that bullying is wrong/evil/malevolent and should be punished no matter who does it. I might be wrong but I don't think so. I rarely am wrong about something.

Bullying is not imaginative dear sir. It's a real thing.
It's detrimental to society.
And laws should be made to make it less present.

I'm not arguing against those hypothetical laws. I'm saying, if laws are made to protect special groups and leave others to fend for themselves, that makes society less just, not more just. And right now, nobody but you is arguing that cisgender, straight white kids should have any sort of protection from bullying. It's not a popular position.

"The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth".

We have a lot of that nowadays. I'm not saying inclusion has become the new exclusion, but at very least it can feel that way to those left out.

People who spend their free time to "cry wolf", protest against bigotry, climate change, animal factory farming-slaughter of billions of sentient beings and other things should be respected for their contribution or the attempt to changing/change the society to a better one.
For not being complacent with the current affairs.

What do you say to someone who thinks tolerance, carbon-elimination, and veganism have become the status quo? For those at the top, anyway.

[oldbadger]

......................................And right now, nobody but you is arguing that cisgender, straight white kids should have any sort of protection from bullying. ...........................................

I would support any and all protections against any and all kinds of bullying.
Whether it's huddles of schoolgirls picking on an outsider with whispers, or boys with strength using it against others, bullying in the workplace and all else, bullying is utterly disgusting.

If you got picked on by psycho or physio bullies you'd hate it, it would ruin your world.....trust me in that.

[alexxcJRO]

My point was that bullying is wrong/evil/malevolent and should be punished no matter who does it. I might be wrong but I don't think so. I rarely am wrong about something.
Bullying is not imaginative dear sir. It's a real thing.
It's detrimental to society.
And laws should be made to make it less present.

I'm not arguing against those hypothetical laws. I'm saying, if laws are made to protect special groups and leave others to fend for themselves, that makes society less just, not more just. And right now, nobody but you is arguing that cisgender, straight white kids should have any sort of protection from bullying. It's not a popular position.

I am not arguing for special protection for a section of population.

False dichotomies should not exist. The spectrum is real in all things. Delimitations exits only for morons because they can't only comprehend continuous spectrum.

There is not only [1] "bullying remains a thing" or [2]"a special group is protected from bulling" choices.
Some might make it that way. A medium where tribal mentality, bias proliferate and fuel a constant state of conflict, opposition.

Laws should be made for all. We don't want to turn a right into a wrong.
Bullying should be punished no matter where it happened in schools or at work or in any environment. In does not matter against who is propagated towards: gays, non-believers, Caucasians, Blacks, Hispanics, trans, cis, straight.

"The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth".

We have a lot of that nowadays. I'm not saying inclusion has become the new exclusion, but at very least it can feel that way to those left out.

Morons tend to exaggerate in all directions. The extreme are favored most of the time.
From intolerance to exaggerated and forced tolerance where it becomes/metamorphoses into intolerance.
To much of a good thing and done too fast and/or forcefully can become a bad thing.

People who spend their free time to "cry wolf", protest against bigotry, climate change, animal factory farming-slaughter of billions of sentient beings and other things should be respected for their contribution or the attempt to changing/change the society to a better one.
For not being complacent with the current affairs.

What do you say to someone who thinks tolerance, carbon-elimination, and veganism have become the status quo? For those at the top, anyway.

Morons believe many things.

Tolerance, carbon-elimination and veganism is far from being a substantial thing if we consider all the world.

In my country for example the intolerance towards the gays is on full swing.
In middle east, certain African, Asian countries gays, non-believers, women suffer and are even killed often for moronic reasons(usually religious).

Nothing is done substantially on the global warming front. We are still on the path with the RPC 8.5(very pessimistic scenario).

Factory farming is on full swing. More then 100 billion animals per year(mostly factory farming) are being kept in very poor condition, basically tortured and then killed for our consumption. North Americans and West Europeans are doing the most damage. Stuffing on the meat and other animal products and becoming obese for no reason other then "gluttony" is a real thing. This also contributes considerably to global warming.

[Purple Knight]

......................................And right now, nobody but you is arguing that cisgender, straight white kids should have any sort of protection from bullying. ...........................................

I would support any and all protections against any and all kinds of bullying.
Whether it's huddles of schoolgirls picking on an outsider with whispers, or boys with strength using it against others, bullying in the workplace and all else, bullying is utterly disgusting.

Okay, so I stand corrected. You're for the protection of all. So what if a law only protects some? Is that a good law, because more people are protected and we're moving in the right direction, toward the right thing, which is protection of everyone? Or is it something awful because it gives to some, and not others, special legal rights the others lack?

Picture a group of people all convicted of a crime they did not commit. And your option is simply to support or oppose a bill that clears and frees any whites in that group, but not the rest. I would oppose such a thing, because I see justice as a totally lost cause without equality.

If you got picked on by psycho or physio bullies you'd hate it, it would ruin your world.....trust me in that.

You are talking to someone who has been, and I just had to accept, that's part of the world.

[oldbadger]

Okay, so I stand corrected. You're for the protection of all.

Absolutely

So what if a law only protects some? Is that a good law, because more people are protected and we're moving in the right direction, toward the right thing, which is protection of everyone? Or is it something awful because it gives to some, and not others, special legal rights the others lack?

Pick a law that exists in your state or country. Let's have a look at such a law. And we can discus that.

And I will pick a law from my country, such as 'All persons riding motorcycles must wear crash helmets' ...such a law protects only those motorcyclists but it has saved so many lives.

Picture a group of people all convicted of a crime they did not commit. And your option is simply to support or oppose a bill that clears and frees any whites in that group, but not the rest. I would oppose such a thing, because I see justice as a totally lost cause without equality.

Why should I picture a situation that doesn't exist? Why would the people seek to acquit convicts of crimes? If they didn't do those things then acquit them, or if the law is wrong then vote to redact it.

You are talking to someone who has been, and I just had to accept, that's part of the world.

It doesn't have to be. If you have suffered any kind of bullying then you might offer support for the victims more than you do.

[Purple Knight]

Why should I picture a situation that doesn't exist?

Because this is a debate site, and it matters what the basic principles are. It matters whether justice is some set of absolute principles, and it doesn't matter if people are treated inequally. Or, if justice can't exist if people are treated inequally. That matters. That's why I said I would never support letting half of some group of innocent people go. If we know they're innocent, let them all go.

You are talking to someone who has been, and I just had to accept, that's part of the world.

It doesn't have to be. If you have suffered any kind of bullying then you might offer support for the victims more than you do.

I've said I'm perfectly happy to defend rights in others which I do not possess myself. I just won't call it equality.

[oldbadger]

Why should I picture a situation that doesn't exist?

Because this is a debate site, and it matters what the basic principles are. It matters whether justice is some set of absolute principles, and it doesn't matter if people are treated inequally. Or, if justice can't exist if people are treated inequally. That matters. That's why I said I would never support letting half of some group of innocent people go. If we know they're innocent, let them all go.

Well, since this is a debate site, please pick a situation for us to discuss/debate.
Do you have one?

Just pick a situation that matters to you.