Should misinformation be banned from the major platforms?

[Daedalus X]

For this topic misinformation is any information that promotes needle hesitancy or anti authoritarian approved information.

Here is an example of misinformation that can't be posted to YouTube, twitter, Facebook or any mainline medium. Is this good public policy?



This is a MUST WATCH.

https://www.therealanthonyfaucimovie.com/viewing/

[brunumb]

With a few exceptions, all sexually reproducing organisms generate exactly two types of gametes that are distinguished by their difference in size: females, by definition, produce large gametes (eggs) and males, by definition, produce small and usually motile gametes (sperm).21 Dec 2022

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/ful ... .202200173

Yes, those exception exist and they are human beings, no?

With few exceptions, people are right handed, should we force left-handed people to be right-handed?

The exceptions are meaningful, and you are trying to erase their existence by saying "oh, they're just exceptions". Rarity doesn't strip something of it's reality.

I see you have dodged the question. Your examples don't even relate to the issue (a common tactic used by trans activists I should point out). We are talking about the binary nature of sexual reproduction. You called my claim a display of ignorance and offered to show how I was wrong. Please do so. And no, human beings are not an exception to the binary nature of sexual reproduction. See the description in blue.

If cognitive dissonance isn't an issue for you, watch the video above outlining the source of transgender ideology and let us know what your thoughts are on that.

[brunumb]

The exceptions are meaningful, and you are trying to erase their existence by saying "oh, they're just exceptions". Rarity doesn't strip something of it's reality.

I am not trying to erase anything. Transgender people, if anything, highlight the binary nature of sex in humans. Males feel that they are females, and females feel that they are males. No extra sexes involved. The notion of multiple genders is just an example of people expressing different personalities. No different from people expressing themselves as hippies or goths or whatever. The bottom line is that when they decide to procreate they are going to need a biological female together with a biological male to accomplish anything. How they identify is irrelevant. One of the sad things among the chemically and surgically altered people is that they will never experience the pleasure of a normal sex life and the joys of producing their own children. I guess that can be compensated for by the satisfaction that people will be forced into not misgendering them or using pronouns they don't like.

[boatsnguitars]

With a few exceptions, all sexually reproducing organisms generate exactly two types of gametes that are distinguished by their difference in size: females, by definition, produce large gametes (eggs) and males, by definition, produce small and usually motile gametes (sperm).21 Dec 2022

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/ful ... .202200173

Yes, those exception exist and they are human beings, no?

With few exceptions, people are right handed, should we force left-handed people to be right-handed?

The exceptions are meaningful, and you are trying to erase their existence by saying "oh, they're just exceptions". Rarity doesn't strip something of it's reality.

I see you have dodged the question. Your examples don't even relate to the issue (a common tactic used by trans activists I should point out). We are talking about the binary nature of sexual reproduction. You called my claim a display of ignorance and offered to show how I was wrong. Please do so. And no, human beings are not an exception to the binary nature of sexual reproduction. See the description in blue.

If cognitive dissonance isn't an issue for you, watch the video above outlining the source of transgender ideology and let us know what your thoughts are on that.

You keep going on about "transgender ideology" as if I watch videos like you. Your video is ideology - it's not science. It's a dude ranting about something. I am strictly interested in the science. I don't watch propaganda videos - one side or the other. It appears you are the one that has steeped yourself in gender ideology.

Again:

BIOLOGICAL SEX: HOW YOU GET IT
Nearly everyone in middle school biology learned that if you’ve got XX chromosomes, you’re a female; if you’ve got XY, you’re a male. This tired simplification is great for teaching the importance of chromosomes but betrays the true nature of biological sex. The popular belief that your sex arises only from your chromosomal makeup is wrong. The truth is, your biological sex isn’t carved in stone, but a living system with the potential for change.

Why? Because biological sex is far more complicated than XX or XY (or XXY, or just X). XX individuals could present with male gonads. XY individuals can have ovaries. How? Through a set of complex genetic signals that, in the course of a human’s development, begins with a small group of cells called the bipotential primordium and a gene called SRY.

A newly fertilized embryo initially develops without any indication of its sex. At around five weeks, a group of cells clump together to form the bipotential primordium. These cells are neither male nor female but have the potential to turn into testes, ovaries or neither. After the primordium forms, SRY—a gene on the Y chromosome discovered in 1990, thanks to the participation of intersex XX males and XY females—might be activated.*

Though it is still not fully understood, we know SRY plays a role in pushing the primordium toward male gonads. But SRY is not a simple on/off switch, it’s a precisely timed start signal, the first chord of the “male gonad” symphony. A group of cells (instrument sections) must all express SRY (notes of the chord), at the right time (conductor?). Without that first chord, the embryo will play a different symphony: female gonads, or something in between.

And there’s more! While brief and coordinated SRY-activation initiates the process of male-sex differentiation, genes like DMRT1 and FOXL2 maintain certain sexual characteristics during adulthood. If these genes stop functioning, gonads can change and exhibit characteristics of the opposite sex. Without these players constantly active, certain components of your biological sex can change.

There’s still more! SRY, DMRT1, and FOXL2 aren’t directly involved with other aspects of biological sex. Secondary sex characteristics—penis, vagina, appearance, behavior—arise later, from hormones, environment, experience, and genes interacting. To explore this, we move from the body to the brain, where biology becomes behavior.

THE BRAIN: WHERE STUFF GETS “MADE UP”
When the biology gets too complicated, some point to differences between brains of males and females as proof of the sexual binary. But a half century of empirical research has repeatedly challenged the idea that brain biology is simply XY = male brain or XX = female brain. In other words, there is no such thing as “the male brain” or “the female brain.” This is not to say that there are no observable differences. Certain brain characteristics can be sexually dimorphic: observable average differences across males and females. But like biological sex, pointing to “brain sex” as the explanation for these differences is wrong and hinders scientific research.

Let’s just take the most famous example of sexual dimorphism in the brain: the sexually dimorphic nucleus of the preoptic area (sdnPOA). This tiny brain area with a disproportionately sized name is slightly larger in males than in females. But it’s unclear if that size difference indicates distinctly wired sdnPOAs in males versus females, or if—as with the bipotential primordium—the same wiring is functionally weighted toward opposite ends of a spectrum. Throw in the observation that the sdnPOA in gay men is closer to that of straight females than straight males, and the idea of “the male brain” falls apart.

Trying to link sex, sex chromosomes and sexual dimorphism is also useless for understanding other brain properties. The hormone vasopressin is dimorphic but is linked to both behavioral differences and similarities across sex. Simply put, the idea of a sexual binary isn’t scientifically useful, and nowhere is this more obvious than in the brain. It also happens that transgender people have the brains to prove it.

It’s easy to see sexual dimorphisms and conclude that the brain is binary; easy, but wrong. Thanks to the participation of trans people in research, we have expanded our understanding of how brain structure, sex and gender interact. For some properties like brain volume and connectivity, trans people possessed values in between those typical of cisgender males and females, both before and after transitioning. Another study found that for certain brain regions, trans individuals appeared similar to cis-individuals with the same gender identity. In that same study, researchers found specific areas of the brain where trans people seemed closer to those with the same assigned sex at birth. Other researchers discovered that trans people have unique structural differences from cis-individuals.

THE BODY AND THE BRAIN AND THE HORMONES BETWIXT
As if the brain and body weren’t complicated enough, another biological factor influences the expression of biological sex in an individual: hormones. Anyone who has gone through puberty has felt the power of hormones firsthand. But like all things biology, hormones cannot be limited to the pubescent idea of “estrogen = female and testosterone = male.”

For one thing, all humans possess levels of estrogen, progesterone and testosterone with sex differences not as prominent as is popularly thought. During infancy and prepubescence, these hormones sit in a bipotential range, with no marked sex differences. Through puberty, certain sex hormones like estrogen, progesterone and testosterone become weighted toward one end of a spectrum. But in developed adults, estrogen and progesterone levels are on average similar between males and nonpregnant females. And while testosterone exhibits the largest difference between adult males and females, heritability studies have found that genetics (X vs. Y) only explains about 56 percent of an individual’s testosterone, suggesting many other influences on hormones. Furthermore, measurements of sex hormones levels in any one individual wildly vary across the range of “average” values regardless of how close or spread apart you take the measurements. The binary sex model not only insufficiently predicts the presence of hormones but is useless in describing factors that influence them.

Environmental, social and behavioral factors also influence hormones in both males and females, complicating the idea that hormones determine sex. Progesterone changes in response to typically male-coded social situations that involve dominance and competition. Estrogen, typically linked to feminine-coded behavior, also plays a role in masculine-coded dominance/power social scenarios. Though testosterone levels are different between males and females on average, many external factors can change these levels, such as whether or not a person is raising a child. Differing testosterone levels in both men and women can predict certain parenting behaviors. Even the content of a sexual fantasy can change testosterone levels. The fact is, behavior and environment—like cultural gender norms and expectations—influence sex-related hormones, and the biology of the body and brain itself.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/vo ... ansphobia/

--We all recognize the vast majority of sexuality can be broken down to Male/Female in most species. That's an easy characterization. It's also easy to say that everything is made up of atoms - without having to go into nuance. But Nature is more nuanced than our limited categories.

It really appears that you have a bee in your bonnet about something, and you think there is some grand conspiracy in recognizing that gender is more fluid than traditionally thought.

You bringing up the few, extremely rare cases where adults are forcing sex changes on kids is just fear-mongering and cherry picking. It also has nothing to do with the conversation - to me. I'm not interested in what a few bad actors do, I'm interested in the reality of our world.

And, it's not a crime to challenge traditional views, especially when it involves exceptions (that you acknowledge) that are not once in a century but 1-5% of the population. 2% of people have green eyes - for comparison.
It's also quite reasonable to accept that gender roles are artificial, and that gender psychology is more complex than "hey, I've got a penis, therefore, I gotta drive a truck and work in the factory".
It's also quite reasonable to question why Sports exist in the way that we want to see penises and vaginas compete in different events - as if we are assessing their reproductive value: that we need to know who the fastest man and woman is, as opposed to simply the strongest person, or, some other measure (for example, artistic ability, business acumen, etc.).

These may run counter to traditional roles and ways of thinking, but so what?

As for any ideology you are talking about - as I said, I don't involve myself in it - but you seem to be mired in it. I have to wonder why (other than you saying "I just need to stand up for truth and sanity!" which I believe you believe) you are so adamant about this? Are you simply fixated on the idea that a sperm needs an egg, and that's how we should view humanity?

BTW, more and more people are claiming to be Trans, in some way or another. Conspiracy theorists will claim it's because of "Trans ideology corrupting minds!" - but, like more and more people came out as gay as it became more socially acceptable, now more people are coming out Trans. Not because of Ideology - because of more acceptance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Tipton
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... der_people

[Daedalus X]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #283]

That is a well written post, did I miss the place where you cited your source? Or was there a reason why you did not cite the source?

[boatsnguitars]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #283]

That is a well written post, did I miss the place where you cited your source? Or was there a reason why you did not cite the source?

Just lazy. I'm not writing a thesis.
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/vo ... ansphobia/

Persistent Müllerian duct syndrome

Persistent Müllerian duct syndrome is a disorder of sexual development that affects males. Males with this disorder have normal male reproductive organs, though they also have a uterus and fallopian tubes, which are female reproductive organs. The uterus and fallopian tubes are derived from a structure called the Müllerian duct during development of the fetus. The Müllerian duct usually breaks down during early development in males, but it is retained in those with persistent Müllerian duct syndrome. Affected individuals have the normal chromosomes of a male (46,XY) and normal external male genitalia.

The first noted signs and symptoms in males with persistent Müllerian duct syndrome are usually undescended testes (cryptorchidism) or soft out-pouchings in the lower abdomen (inguinal hernias). The uterus and fallopian tubes are typically discovered when surgery is performed to treat these conditions.

The testes and female reproductive organs can be located in unusual positions in persistent Müllerian duct syndrome. Occasionally, both testes are undescended (bilateral cryptorchidism) and the uterus is in the pelvis. More often, one testis has descended into the scrotum normally, and one has not. Sometimes, the descended testis pulls the fallopian tube and uterus into the track through which it has descended. This creates a condition called hernia uteri inguinalis, a form of inguinal hernia. In other cases, the undescended testis from the other side of the body is also pulled into the same track, forming an inguinal hernia. This condition, called transverse testicular ectopia, is common in people with persistent Müllerian duct syndrome.

Other effects of persistent Müllerian duct syndrome may include the inability to father children (infertility) or blood in the semen (hematospermia). Also, the undescended testes may break down (degenerate) or develop cancer if left untreated.

https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condit ... -syndrome/

[Daedalus X]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #285]

"Persistent Mullerian Duct Syndrome (PMDS) is a very rare condition with less than 300 cases described in the literature"

There is not much point in talking about extremely rare genetic anomalies.

Can you tell me what percentage of LGBT... people actually do carry some form of genetic anomalies? And how many of those people can we expect to reproduce those same genetic anomalies?

[boatsnguitars]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #285]

"Persistent Mullerian Duct Syndrome (PMDS) is a very rare condition with less than 300 cases described in the literature"

There is not much point in talking about extremely rare genetic anomalies.

Can you tell me what percentage of LGBT... people actually do carry some form of genetic anomalies? And how many of those people can we expect to reproduce those same genetic anomalies?

People with genetic anomalies don't matter now? What is the percentage cut-off? Less than 2%? That would include people with green eyes, Jews, people with Downs syndrome, Dwarfism, etc.

What else should we know about your feelings towards people?

[Jose Fly]

What happens in hospitals where they have been captured by gender ideology does not refute the science that sex is binary. No one is denying that gender dysphoria exists or that some people do not recover from it with time and require medical intervention. That does not mean that anyone is actually changing their sex. They are merely modifying their body in such a way as to alleviate some of their distress.

That's why they're referred to as transgender. You would do well to learn the difference between gender and sex.

If this is all just part of what has been going on for ages, what accounts for the 5000% increase in the incidence of so-called gender dysphoria? How many of the people claiming to be trans genuinely have gender dysphoria and how many are just caught up in the hysteria and have been swept along with the wave?

How about we leave that to the actual professionals, rather than random people on obscure internet forums?

You may wish to dismiss me as whatever-phobic, but that does not reflect who I am or what I believe. It is just a convenient means of fobbing off any arguments contrary to your position.

Your hateful remarks speak for themselves.

You have not refuted my arguments regarding the binary nature of sex. The clips I provided here support my case. Instead of lazily providing links to send readers off to do your work, make your case here.

Already done.

Go ahead. If you are going to rely on outliers then don't waste your time.
To help you get started:

With a few exceptions, all sexually reproducing organisms generate exactly two types of gametes that are distinguished by their difference in size: females, by definition, produce large gametes (eggs) and males, by definition, produce small and usually motile gametes (sperm).21 Dec 2022

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/ful ... .202200173

So when you said, "The animal and plant world evolved with a binary principle of sexual reproduction", you were only referring to production of gametes? Not anything else?

And if there are "a few exceptions", that means it can't be strictly and exclusively binary as you've been insisting, can it? Oops,

[Daedalus X]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #285]

"Persistent Mullerian Duct Syndrome (PMDS) is a very rare condition with less than 300 cases described in the literature"

There is not much point in talking about extremely rare genetic anomalies.

Can you tell me what percentage of LGBT... people actually do carry some form of genetic anomalies? And how many of those people can we expect to reproduce those same genetic anomalies?

People with genetic anomalies don't matter now? What is the percentage cut-off? Less than 2%? That would include people with green eyes, Jews, people with Downs syndrome, Dwarfism, etc.

What else should we know about your feelings towards people?

Okay, if your concern is about 300 people, of the 7 billion plus people in the world, then that is fine. They need advocates as well. But, I am more concerned with the larger group of people that make up to near 40% of the young that have no genetic reason to call themselves LGBTQ+ plus etc.

[Jose Fly]

Okay, if your concern is about 300 people, of the 7 billion plus people in the world, then that is fine. They need advocates as well.

As has been covered in this thread, that is just one of the many variations that don't fit into the strict binary framework.

But, I am more concerned with the larger group of people that make up to near 40% of the young that have no genetic reason to call themselves LGBTQ+ plus etc.

First, you do realize that "LGBTQ" refers to lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer (e.g., non-binary) people, right? So someone who is bisexual may still fit in one of the binary male/female categories for sex and/or gender, and just be sexually attracted to both men and women.

Second, how exactly do you know that none of those people "have no genetic reason" to be who they are?