The Delay of the End

[Skeptical]

Hello all. Even though I am skeptical, at the same time, I am saddened and distressed by the many horrific and terrible things that we see go on around us in the world. Therefore, as a skeptic, I still do think about things such as the last days the end times. Therefore, as far as how things just keep going on and on and on, I understand that some Christians apply Habakkuk 2:3 to the situation. So, I would like to know from any type of theist, if they think that Habakkuk 2:3 is being used properly to understand this delayed situation? And the reason why I ask is because that verse seems to be able to justify any type of delay, postponement, or unfulfillment of any type of end time expectation.

New International Version
For the revelation awaits an appointed time; it speaks of the end and will not prove false. Though it linger, wait for it; it will certainly come and will not delay.

https://biblehub.com/habakkuk/2-3.htm

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to Miles in post #5]

“Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father." Mark 13:32

Fine, but where in the Bible does it say ". . . that date is set so as to allow as many possible that are deep thinkers, those that see past the veneer of the world and those that seek God and are smart enough to think about the future and avoid the day when all the horrible things we see are brought to an end?

Or did you simply make all this up?

.

One doesnt have to have the exact words in a text to draw / deduce conclusion from what it says. All that is needed are critical thinking skills, a good general vocabulary and the ability to speak not by rote but with one's own words

"that date is set" - Matthew 24:36
"so as to allow as many possible that are deep thinkers" - Matthew 24:15b
"those that see past the veneer of the world" - 1 John 2:15
"and those that seek God and are smart enough to think about the future" - Zeph 2:3
"and avoid the day when all the horrible things we see are brought to an end" - Luke 21:36 ; Matt. 24:37-39

[Skeptical]

Hello all. Even though I am skeptical, at the same time, I am saddened and distressed by the many horrific and terrible things that we see go on around us in the world. Therefore, as a skeptic, I still do think about things such as the last days the end times. Therefore, as far as how things just keep going on and on and on, I understand that some Christians apply Habakkuk 2:3 to the situation. So, I would like to know from any type of theist, if they think that Habakkuk 2:3 is being used properly to understand this delayed situation? And the reason why I ask is because that verse seems to be able to justify any type of delay, postponement, or unfulfillment of any type of end time expectation.

New International Version
For the revelation awaits an appointed time; it speaks of the end and will not prove false. Though it linger, wait for it; it will certainly come and will not delay.

https://biblehub.com/habakkuk/2-3.htm

The end might seem to linger to people who are anxiously awaiting it, but God has a set time where He will bring about the big changes and it really is not "late."

"Let this one fact not be escaping your notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day. Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance." (2Peter 3:8,9)

Thank you for that. But what about generations of people of the same faith who have been waiting for the same thing? Especially people who have aged and/or who have passed away and have been replaced by their descendants or by a new generation of people of the same faith who are not related to them?

[Skeptical]

Hello all. Even though I am skeptical, at the same time, I am saddened and distressed by the many horrific and terrible things that we see go on around us in the world. Therefore, as a skeptic, I still do think about things such as the last days the end times. Therefore, as far as how things just keep going on and on and on, I understand that some Christians apply Habakkuk 2:3 to the situation. So, I would like to know from any type of theist, if they think that Habakkuk 2:3 is being used properly to understand this delayed situation? And the reason why I ask is because that verse seems to be able to justify any type of delay, postponement, or unfulfillment of any type of end time expectation.

New International Version
For the revelation awaits an appointed time; it speaks of the end and will not prove false. Though it linger, wait for it; it will certainly come and will not delay.

https://biblehub.com/habakkuk/2-3.htm

2Peter 3:8,9, the scripture that OWH quoted is a key scripture but so is Psalm 14:1, 2. Jehovah God is seeking those with insight. The root word of the Hebrew word insight is prudent.

Insight definition:
the capacity to gain an accurate and deep intuitive understanding of a person or thing.

Prudent definition:
1. acting with or showing care and thought for the future
2. showing good judgment in avoiding risks and uncertainties; careful

Psalm 14:2 says that God is also seeking those that are seeking Him. We all must ask the question, what kind of person am I?

Jehovah has a set date, that date is set so as to allow as many possible that are deep thinkers, those that see past the veneer of the world and those that seek God and are smart enough to think about the future and avoid the day when all the horrible things we see are brought to an end. Yet a morbid fear of judgment on the world is not a reason to serve God.

Thank you for your answer. Now, I'm not really sure what you are saying, but let me try to reiterate. So, are you saying that God is waiting and allowing terrible things to continue to go on in the world because for some reason he needs to find enough smart people to worship him? And therefore, which implies that presently, there just aren't enough smart people in the faith to worship God right now?

[JehovahsWitness]

...what about generations of people of the same faith who have been waiting for the same thing? Especially people who have aged and/or who have passed away ...?

I would advise you to read Hebrews Chapter 11 in the bible to understand that people of faith have historically been willing to live their entire lives devoted to God without actually receiving their promised reward. The Chapter lists individuals such as Abel, Enoch, Joseph and Abraham, people that lived grew old and died but did not necessarily see the things they believed in come to fruition. In the biblical vernacular this is called living by FAITH

HEBREWS 11:13 NWT

In faith all of these died, although they did not receive the fulfillment of the promises; but they saw them from a distance and welcomed them and publicly declared that they were strangers and temporary residents in the land

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FAITH, GOD and ...THE BIBLE

[Skeptical]

HOW SHOULD HABAKKUK 2:3 BE PROPERLY UNDERSTOOD?

HABAKKUK 2:3 NWT

For the vision is yet for its appointed time, And it is rushing toward its end, and it will not lie. Even if it should delay, keep in expectation of it! For it will without fail come true. It will not be late!

God's answer to the Prophet Habakkuk who lived in the 6th century BCE was regard to the judgement of the wicked in Judah and Jerusalem in his day. The Prophet asked Jehovah (God) how long such conditions would continue and God repsonse is recorded above. God's answer assured the prophet ...

1. The time was fast approaching
2. Gods promises of action were sure to come true
3. Gods servants should not be discouraged by what they may perceive as a delay
4. God had set a fixed date to take action ["appointed time"]

While the above applies to the Prophet's time, the answer holds valuable lessons for those of us living in what the bible calls " the last days ".


PERCEIVED DELAYS

When God told his Prophet "Even if it should delay" or "“if it seems to delay.” ....he meant from the human perspective. When we are suffering a short time seems very long and if relief does not come when we expect it feels like a "delay" . This was no doubt true for Habakkuk and is certainly true for those of us waiting for the end of this wicked system of things. This does not mean however that Almighty God is "slow" or putting things off (postponing), the end remains fixed and every day bring us one day closer to it. The job of the faithful is to keep busy, keep focused and not be lulled into the spiritual sleep of those around us who will be caught by surprise and unprepared (compare 2 Pet 3:8-10).


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS


LEARN MORE : Joel Dellinger:Jehovah’s Day “Will Not Be Late!” (Hab. 1:2, 3 , Hab. 2:3 - Ps 13:1, 2 )
www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediai ... 4_11_VIDEO

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

GENTILE TIMES , THE SECOND COMING * and ... "DELAYS "DEBUNKED

*The Return of Christ

Thank you for your reply, JW. That was an informative answer. However, I wanted to ask you about another Christian group who also had a similar belief in anticipating or perhaps over-anticipating the second coming of Jesus.

In 1844, there was a great disappointment where people sold their properties and prepared themselves for Jesus Christ's return. Now my Question is, who told those people that Jesus Christ was coming in 1844? How did they know?

That same year, however, Samuel Snow, a latter Millerite minister was influenced by the visions of Ellen G. White, (considered the founder of the Seventh Day Adventist movement). He determined that the true ending date of the prophetic 2300 years was October 22, 1844, the 10th day of the 7th month Tishri of the Jewish calendar, Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement.

[According to the common Jewish calendar, Yom Kippur would begin at sunset, September 22, 1844.] Miller and many others were slow to accept the new date. In August 1844, Snow’s views were presented at a large camp meeting in Exeter, New Hampshire. The dates were enthusiastically accepted. One by one, the Millerite leaders, including Miller himself, joined the throng.

The predicted date of October 22, 1844, came and went. Christ did not come. The Millerite movement disbanded, and in 1845, Miller was disfellowshipped from the Baptist church. Miller again was disappointed but not discouraged. He rightly concluded that God is not governed by dates but works in His own time. When he died two years later in 1847, Miller’s tombstone read: “At the appointed time, the end shall be.”

https://bibleresources.info/in-1844-the ... t-was-com/

Therefore, one of my concerns with this is how it changes people's lives when they are given an interpretation of the Bible about the end.

[Skeptical]

...what about generations of people of the same faith who have been waiting for the same thing? Especially people who have aged and/or who have passed away ...?

I would advise you to read Hebrews Chapter 11 in the bible to understand that people of faith have historically been willing to live their entire lives devoted to God without actually receiving their promised reward. The Chapter lists individuals such as Abel, Enoch, Joseph and Abraham, people that lived grew old and died but did not necessarily see the things they believed in come to fruition. In the biblical vernacular this is called living by FAITH

HEBREWS 11:13 NWT

In faith all of these died, although they did not receive the fulfillment of the promises; but they saw them from a distance and welcomed them and publicly declared that they were strangers and temporary residents in the land

I believe that, but were they living in the Last Days as per we are discussing in this topic?

[JehovahsWitness]

Therefore, one of my concerns with this is how it changes people's lives when they are given an interpretation of the Bible about the end.

I should think it might result in disappointment. If someone has a solid faith they will not be unduly disturbed or stumbled by such disappointment. I cannot comment on the individuals cited, but I know Jehovah's Witnesses have experienced disappointment when our interpretations failed to be accurate , myself (as I am one of Jehovah’s Witnesses) included.

PROVERBS 13:12 ISV

Delayed hope makes the heart ill, but fulfilled longing is a tree of life

.


How one reacts to disappointment in life is a good measure of a person's character.

JW

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , THE 2ND COMING and ...FAILED PREDICTIONS,

[JehovahsWitness]

I believe that, but were they living in the Last Days as per we are discussing in this topic?

No, but the principle is a foundation one for all people of faith and applies to those in our time, namely, if one loves God and is fully devoted to Him one does not have to see the fulfillment of the promises one hopes for to live a happy and fipulfilling life. This is the case for those that are living today in what many believe to be what the bible calls "the last days ".

If you wish to understand how people of faith feel when our expectations that the end of this system does not come as quickly as we hope, the examples of believers documented in the past that lived through similar circumstances can provide valuable insight.



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[Skeptical]

[Replying to Miles in post #5]

“Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father." Mark 13:32

Fine, but where in the Bible does it say ". . . that date is set so as to allow as many possible that are deep thinkers, those that see past the veneer of the world and those that seek God and are smart enough to think about the future and avoid the day when all the horrible things we see are brought to an end?

Or did you simply make all this up?

.

One doesnt have to have the exact words in a text to draw / deduce conclusion from what it says. All that is needed are critical thinking skills, a good general vocabulary and the ability to speak not by rote but with one's own words

"that date is set" - Matthew 24:36
"so as to allow as many possible that are deep thinkers" - Matthew 24:15b
"those that see past the veneer of the world" - 1 John 2:15
"and those that seek God and are smart enough to think about the future" - Zeph 2:3
"and avoid the day when all the horrible things we see are brought to an end" - Luke 21:36 ; Matt. 24:37-39

Sorry, but I don't get it because I thought Christian scripture said about Christians:

KJ21
Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marveled; and they took note concerning them that they had been with Jesus.

https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Acts%204%3A13

But now you guys are saying that God is holding up the Last Days because he's looking for Chrisitans who are all smart and everything.

[JehovahsWitness]

But now you guys are saying that God is holding up the Last Days* because he's looking for Chrisitans who are all smart and everything.

No, I don't believe anyone has said this. In fact I said the complete opposite, the end of this present system has been FIXED in advance. It is not being "delayed" postponed, moved adjusted or shifted.



Hope that helps clarify things.



JW


*Biblically speaking we are presently living in "the last days". You might like to check some of the links provided to clarify the terms being used,

GLOSSARY OF TERMS [END TIMES]