Questions about Jesus and JW’s

[MissKate13]

1. Jehovah’s Witnesses say Jesus was “a god.” This is how the NWT reads (John 1:1).

Do JW’s believe Jesus was a true or false god?

2. JW’s say Jesus is a created being.

When was Jesus (capital or lower case g) created?

I look forward to your responses to one or both questions.

MissKate13

[MissKate13]

[Replying to Eloi in post #140]
I assume you are a Jehovah’s Witness. Yes? No?
Are you a member of JW’s congregation?

[MissKate13]

JESUS = YHWH

Proof # 1

10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. (Zechariah 12:10)

They will look on ME. ME = YHWH

7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. (Revelation 1:7)

HE, HIM = JESUS

33 But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs. 34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. 35 And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe. 36 For these things were done that the Scripture should be fulfilled,Not one of His bones shall be broken.” 37 And again another Scripture says, “They shall look on Him whom they pierced.” (John 19:33-37)

This is how Jesus could say, “I and My Father are one. (John 10:30)

[Eloi]

JESUS = YHWH (...)

NO, MissKate, you are very, very, very WRONG about that.

We know that Jehovah is Jesus' Father for soooo many biblical reasons. Consider these ones:

1) Jesus was anointed by Jehovah: (Psal. 2:1,2 and Acts 4:26,27)

2) Jesus was the prophet "Moses-like" that Jehovah had promised: (Deut. 18:15-18 and Acts 3:18-22)

3) Jehovah sat Jesus Christ at His right hand when He raised him: (Psal. 110:1 and Eph. 1:17-23)

4) Jehovah chose Jesus as High Priest in the manner of Melchizedek: (Psal. 110:4 and Heb. 5:1-6)

5) Jesus is Jehovah's heir: (Psal. 2:7,8 and Heb. 1:2)

6) Jehovah declared Jesus Christ as His Son: (Psal. 2:7 and Heb. 5:5

How is that, that you say Jehovah in OT is Jesus in NT ?????

Where did you get that idea from if it is nowhere there, but the contrary? I thought you rely on the Bible to support your beliefs, but now I am not so sure.

If Jesus is Jehovah, who do you think is Jesus' Father? A nameless unknown god that were somewhere and no one knows?

[MissKate13]

YHWH = Jesus

Proof #2

Who is the first and the last? YHWH is the first and last. Jesus is the first and last. This is how Jesus could say, “I and the Father are one.” (John 10:30) “ He who has seen Me has seen the Father;…” (John 14:9)

Thus says the LORD, the King and Redeemer of Israel, the LORD of Hosts “I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God but Me. (Isaiah 44:6)

Who has performed this and carried it out, calling forth the generations from the beginning? I, the LORD—the first and the last—I am He.” (Isaiah 41:6)

“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” (Rev. 1:8)

10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, 11saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches [h]which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”

12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; 15 His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters; 16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death. (Rev 1:10-18)

“And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write, ‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life: (Rev 2:8)

1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.” 6 AndHe said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes He shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.” (Reve 21:1-7)

12 And Behold, I am coming soon, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.” (Rev 22:12-13)

16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.” (Rev 22:16)

20 He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.”

Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus! (Rev 22:20)

[JehovahsWitness]

JESUS = YHWH

Proof # 1

10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. (Zechariah 12:10)

EXPLAINED : Who is pierced in Zechariah 12:10 ?( post #112)
viewtopic.php?p=1112235#p1112235

This is how Jesus could say, “I and My Father are one. (John 10:30)

EXPLAINED : John 10:30: What did Jesus mean by My father and I are one?
viewtopic.php?p=1112220#p1112220

Proof # 2

...YHWH is the first and last. Jesus is THE FIRST AND LAST

EXPLAINED : Who is "The first and the Last" ? ( post #146)
viewtopic.php?p=1112353#p1112353

Proof # 3
BOTH are the first and last. BOTH are redeemer. [...] BOTH are YHWH!

EXPLAINED : How is it that BOTH Jesus and YHWH are called "The first and the Last" without them being the same person ? ( post #163)
viewtopic.php?p=1112478#p1112478

13 “looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.... (Titus 2:13-14)

EXPLAINED :Does Paul call Jesus "our God and Saviour" at Titius 2:13? ( post #161)

Proof # 4

24 “... “I am the LORD, who has made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who by Myself spread out the earth,” (Isaiah 44:24)

EXPLAINED : How could Jesus be with God during creation if Isaiah 44:24 says YHWH was "ALONE" ?( post #170)
viewtopic.php?p=1112561#p1112561

Proof # 5

In the Old Testament, YHWH says, There is no Savior BESIDES ME (Isaiah 43:10; Hosea 13:4)

EXPLAINED : How could be our savior if Hosea 13:4 says "There is no Savior BESIDES ME" ?( post #173)
viewtopic.php?p=1112572#p1112572

[JehovahsWitness]

WHO IS THE FIRST AND THE LAST ?



The first and the last of Revelation 1:17 is JESUS . We know this because he is identified as someone "like the son of man" (a reference never applied to Jehovah the Father). Also the speaker goes on to say of himself, in the very next verse that he {quote} "I became dead" but Almighy God cannot die.




REVELATION 22 -SPEAKER IDENTITY

The "first and the last" of Rev 22:12-15 (and Isaiah 44:6-28) is THE FATHER (JEHOVAH/ YHWH).
viewtopic.php?p=864348#p864348

RATIONAL: Revelation Chapter 22 has different speakers. The challenge then is to deduce who is saying what. Verses v8-10 John identifies himself, v16:20 Jesus, but the speaker in between, namely v11-15, goes unidentified. With no modifiers to the titles we can reasonably assume THIS speaker, the "Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end" is speaking in the absolute sense; which thus becomes only applicable go YHWH The Almighty Father ( compare Isaiah 44:6, 41:6)

JW


Further reading : SFBT
http://defendingjehovahswitnesses.blogs ... ation.html



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JESUS CHRIST , PRE-HUMAN EXISTENCE and ... THE "TRINITY TEXTS" DEBUNKED

[Eloi]

YHWH = Jesus
(...)

This is what the Bible says:

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the God of our forefathers, has glorified his Servant, Jesus, whom you handed over and disowned before Pilate, even though he had decided to release him.

You don't seem very interested in what the Bible actually says.

[MissKate13]

[Replying to Eloi in post #147]

You wrote, “You don't seem very interested in what the Bible actually says.”

Is this how you treat people when you witness to them? By insulting them? Feel free to attack what I believe, but don’t insult me personally by suggesting that I’m not interested in what the Bible actually says. Would you actually speak that way to someone’s face?

[Ross]

What you don't know and can't know are the people who did the actual translation.
Many Bible translations are overseen by people that don't actually know how to translate languages.

Are you suggesting that the Translation Committee didn't do the translation?

Nope. But you still don't know who worked on the NWT as the names are not listed. Do you even have a clue how large our translation department is? Did you know that www.jw.org holds the world record for website translated into the most languages? https://www.dilingual.com/blog/the-most ... es-in-2022?

The NWT translation of the NT was done way back in 1950. I think I have the names in one of my books. There were only five men. I will have a look for you.

The New World Translation Committee was established in 1947 and consisted of:

Nathan Homer Knorr
Frederick William Franz
George Gangas
Albert Schroeder
Milton Henschel

Source if Information: Crisis of Conscience written by former Jehovah's Witness Governing Body Member Raymond Victor Franz.

[Ross]

I have full confidence that my fellow JWs are unified with me and I with them, so whatever they say, it might as well be me that said it too.

MissKate13, the reason for this is that everything the Jehovah's Witness believes has never been personally worked out, individually researched, intellectually examined, investigated with a careful weighing up of facts. They all believe what the movement has indoctrinated them to accept without question. All and sundry believe exactly the same thing; what they have read in their books and told they must believe. If they even waivered from this discipline of thought, they would be excommunicated.

Basically, they have surrendered their brains to books written by generations before them. Sold their souls to a cause. And ceased to think for themselves. Everything they are attesting is straight out of the links they keep posting. It is like carrying someone else's mind in your thought process.

There is another word for this that begins with a 'b'.