Trinity

[Ross]

Where did this concept come from?

I would suggest it began with John 1:1

[1213]

Where did this concept come from?

I would suggest it began with John 1:1

I don't think that is the original source for Trinity, because disciples of Jesus originally thought there is only one true God.

yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him.
1 Cor. 8:6

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Tim. 2:5

1 Cor 8:6 seems to point to the Father as God. 1 Tim 2:5 points to Jesus as God. Acts 5:3-4 points to the Holy Spirit as God.

There is only one GOD. Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all called God. They are distinct individuals sharing the same nature. They work in perfect unity as a team for our benefit.

That’s where we should leave it. We are incapable of understanding it. It will remain a mystery until Jesus comes again.

Sorry, I disagree with you. I don't think there is any mystery, because for me it is as it is said in the Bible.

And I think it is fascinating how can you say "1 Tim 2:5 points to Jesus as God", when it says Jesus is mediator between God and men. If he is the God, then he would not be a mediator.

[Ross]

Sorry, I disagree with you. I don't think there is any mystery, because for me it is as it is said in the Bible.

The Apostle Paul and the Bible disagree with your statement. 1 TIM 3:16:

"And WITHOUT CONTROVERSY, GREAT IS THE MYSTERY OF GODLINESS; he was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached to the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

[onewithhim]

Where did this concept come from?

I would suggest it began with John 1:1

John 1:1 is a very sloppy translation. It doesn't do justice to the Word of God the way it is rendered. There is nothing in the Scriptures that refers to a trinity of Gods. It became popular in the 4th century because of Constantine's influence within the apostate church.

[onewithhim]

I would suggest that it was established at the Nicene Council convened by the Roman emperor Constantine, and became authoritarian by the decree of the Roman emperor Theodosius in 380 A.D. .
[/quote]

While I wouldn't disagree with that, my question was, 'where did this concept come from,' not when it was officially stamped into a Council of 325 A.D. It had undergone massive debate and thought by this stage by many if not most of the early Church Fathers.

Gen 1:1 reads "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

John 1:1 reads "In the beginning was the Word
And the Word was with God
And the Word was God"

The Greek Septuagint version of the Masoretic Text renders "In the beginning" of Gen 1:1 as 'EN ARCHE', the same description as John uses, so his words are an obvious reference and further explanation of Gen1:1.

Thus an explanation after all of that time of "Let US make man in OUR image."
God is more than one.
[/quote]
The early church fathers did not believe in the trinity. Clement, Polycarp and Ignatius were the last of the fathers that spoke truth. After them the Apostacy set in. The Apostle John was gone at the end of the first century, and it was said that after the last apostle the Apostacy would begin full-force. (Acts 20:29,30)

[Ross]

John 1:1 is a very sloppy translation. It doesn't do justice to the Word of God the way it is rendered.

IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD
AND THE WORD WAS WITH THE GOD
AND THE WORD WAS GOD

This is about as close as it can be translated directly from Koine' Greek into English.
What exactly is sloppy?
Did YHWH choose the wrong words?

[Ross]

There is nothing in the Scriptures that refers to a trinity of Gods.

I have never read anything in contemporary modern church literature referring to a 'trinity of Gods'

Only a trinity of God.

[Runner]

I don't think that is the original source for Trinity, because disciples of Jesus originally thought there is only one true God.

Paul wrote: 1 Tim 3:16
"And without controversy GREAT IS THE MYSTERY OF GODLINESS; HE WHO WAS MANIFESTED IN THE FLESH, Justified in the spirit, Seen of angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory."

It would seem from this that the disciples and even the Apostles could not quite fully comprehend the divinity or deity of The Christ fully from their experiences. It was a mystery and still is.
However the appearance and examination of the book of John, long after Paul's epistles, led the majority of the early Church Fathers to favour the theology or the understanding of the emergence of the Bible to advocate a Trinity over Arianism or similar explanations.

This verse doesn't imply that there was a misunderstanding as to 'how many' God was/is. It is simply referring to the Truth of Jeremiah 23:24 which teaches that God is omnipresent. The Bible in no place teaches that God is three. On the contrary, it states that God is one countless times, from Genesis to Revelation, and Christ Himself claims to BE God Almighty - just as the Father claims to BE Christ. There are many verses that show this.

[Runner]

Where did this concept come from?

From the World History Encyclopedia

Tertullian (155-200 CE) was the first to use the Latin term 'trinity'. He described it as a "divine economy" as in the household or monarchy of God. God the Father laid out the divine plan, God the Son carried out the will of the Father, and God the Spirit motivated the will of God in believers (Adversus Praxean, 27). . . .

In 312 CE, Roman emperor Constantine I (r. 306-337 CE) converted to Christianity and simultaneously became head of the Christian Church. He promoted the unity of belief throughout the empire. The concept of the Trinity could have remained an intellectual endeavor only, but a controversy emerged in the city of Alexandria that spilled over into other cities (318-321 CE). Arius, a presbyter in Alexandria taught that if one believed that God created everything, then at one time, he must have created Christ. Indeed, the very terms the Father and the Son indicated that Christ was subordinate to God. The bishop of Alexandria excommunicated Arius, but other church leaders took his side. Riots broke out among the various factions in different cities.

In 325 CE, Constantine called for an empire-wide council to resolve the matter. The challenge was to articulate the way in which the oneness of God was also found in his transcendence (through the power of the Spirit) and his incarnate nature (taking on flesh in the Son). The meeting was held in Nicaea, near the new capital of Constantinople that was still in progress. Roughly 217 bishops attended along with their entourages. . . .

The debates on the Trinity were quite esoteric and included philosophical ideas of the universe. Was Christ homo-ousios, a being like the Father, or was he homoi-ousios, of the identical essence of the Father? Note that the difference is in an iota, a subtle difference in the Greek. The Council opted for the second choice in that God and Christ were identical in essence and that Christ was a manifestation of God himself on earth. Beyond the esoteric theology, however, the practical implication for the choice of Christ being identical to the essence of God was that it theoretically kept the monotheism of traditional Judaism intact. Having Christ identical to God, confirmed the view that Christ was pre-existent and helped to create the universe.
source and much more

.

The problem with these extra-biblical sources is that they don't align with Scripture, then or now.

The trinity was created around the time the Roman Catholic Church was created in order to mix existing pagan beliefs with Christian concepts.

The Roman Catholic Church was created because Christianity could not be destroyed any other way, though they tried desperately. It was intended, and is still employed, as a counterfeit to supplant the True church; and it taught, and still teaches, nothing but heresy.

[Runner]

Where did this concept come from?

I would suggest it began with John 1:1

I don't think that is the original source for Trinity, because disciples of Jesus originally thought there is only one true God.

yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him.
1 Cor. 8:6

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Tim. 2:5

1 Cor 8:6 seems to point to the Father as God. 1 Tim 2:5 points to Jesus as God. Acts 5:3-4 points to the Holy Spirit as God.

There is only one GOD. Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all called God. They are distinct individuals sharing the same nature. They work in perfect unity as a team for our benefit.

That’s where we should leave it. We are incapable of understanding it. It will remain a mystery until Jesus comes again.

Sorry, I disagree with you. I don't think there is any mystery, because for me it is as it is said in the Bible.

And I think it is fascinating how can you say "1 Tim 2:5 points to Jesus as God", when it says Jesus is mediator between God and men. If he is the God, then he would not be a mediator.

If Jesus is NOT God, then God has a whole lotta explaining to do as the entire Bible supports the concept of Christ being God Almighty. The entire story falls apart if Christ is not God.

[Ross]

Hi Runner,
Thanks for your thought provoking input.
I am guessing you are of the Modalist persuasion?