A Promise Unkept

[Miles]

Matthew 18:19 came up in a discussion the other day. It was being argued that while at one time god may have cared about mankind, he has since lost all interest in us, As evidence is his complete disregard of the promise he made (in his persona as Jesus) to grant prayers. It was pointed out that as much as peace on earth was prayed for, god has never granted it. That no matter how much two parents prayed for the recovery of their dying child, god let her die anyway. That no matter how much two children prayed for the return of their runaway pet Rover, god never saw fit to bring him back

Because a scriptural passage may read differently depending on which Bible one reads, I've listed six slightly different versions here so as to make it clear what Jesus is saying.

Matthew 18:19
(ERV)
To say it another way, if two of you on earth agree on anything you pray for, my Father in heaven will do what you ask.

(NABRE)
Again, [amen,] I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything for which they are to pray, it shall be granted to them by my heavenly Father.

(NRSV)
Again, truly I tell you, if two of you agree on earth about anything you ask, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven.

(KJV)
Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

(NMB)
Again I say to you, if two of you agree in earth about any manner of thing, whatsoever they desire, it shall be given them by my Father who is in heaven.

(RSVCE)
Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.



So, what do you think happened here?

A) Jesus was wrong and misspoke about what his alter ego would do.

B) Jesus didn't misspeak, but somewhere down the line god the father changed his mind.

.

[JehovahsWitness]

WHY HAS IT TAKEN SO MANY MILLENIA TO SETTLE THE ISSUE OF UNIVERSAL SOVEREIGNTY?


Because much time would be needed for humanity to exhaust all alternatives and see for themselves that God's rule is best.

To illustrate: You teenage child claims he doesnt need to live at home and expresses his desire to move out. Even though he is over 18 and free to do so, you know he does not have the life skills to live successfully on his own. The only way for him to recognise this however is to let him try. After a week he has squandered his savings and is sleeping on a friend's couch. Would it be beneficial to force him home at that point? Would he not claim he just needed more time to get on his feet?

It would take humans many thousands of years to reach the point in their progress where they would be forced to recognise they simply cannot self rule successfuly. It would be millenia before it could be said humans have tried every conceivable form of government, every economic, social and religious system. It would be thousands of years before the industrial relolution, the space age, the technological revolution, the information age ... and yet stil, world hunger, still mismanagement of the planet, still war, still hatred, still ignorance, slavery, suffering ... In short, it has taken many thousands of years for us to see that we don't need more time, we need more God.



JW



RELATED POSTS

What is the issue of universal Sovereignty? [Defined]
viewtopic.php?p=1031210#p1031210

Why has it taken TIME to settle the issue of universal sovereinty?
viewtopic.php?p=1097903#p1097903

Why has it SO MANY MILLENIA to settle the issue of universal sovereinty?
viewtopic.php?p=845975#p845975

When were the edenic issues settled and what comes next?
viewtopic.php?p=1097660#p1097660

Will there be any long lasting negative effects of the permission of evil?
viewtopic.php?p=1108143#p1108143

Should not a loving God have ignored the issues in order to avoid suffering?
viewtopic.php?p=908722#p908722

Why did God allow Job to be tested?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 26#p908726

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

SATAN , HUMAN SUFFERING and .... THE ISSUE OF UNIVERSAL SOVEREIGNTY

[AquinasForGod]

If we spent more time reading what the early church believed, then verses like this are easily understood. What did the early church fathers understand?

Here Aquinas quotes different early church fathers. https://isidore.co/aquinas/english/CAMatthew.htm#18

Saint Jerome says this is said to the Apostles.

The apostles gathered in his name, meaning their will was to be the will of Jesus, so they would ask for things in the will of God and not outside it.

Surely, Jesus was not saying if the Apostles prayed to become the best thieves ever that he would grant them that power.

And the church fathers that related verse 19 to believers, they point out the same thing, that the prayer must be within the will of God. It must not be for vengeance, for evil, or for mercy toward unrelenting sinners.

The early church understood that God will not go against his own will, so if your prayer is outside his will, then it will not be answered, which is why Jesus when he was a sign to us, showing how we ought to pray, he said, "God, not my will be done but your will."

[Miles]

[JehovahsWitness]

... a God who not only makes mistakes

There are no scriptures that use the word mistake in connection with the creator.



How can a perfect God "regret"?
viewtopic.php?p=1014669#p1014669

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

FREE WILL, OMNISCIENCE and ...SELECTIVE FOREKNOWLEDGE

[JehovahsWitness]

But is disgustingly inhumane

There is nothing inhumain about punishing the wicked, indeed it would arguably be inhumain not to.

- 2 Kings 2:23-24
Did God send bears to kill children?
viewtopic.php?p=830572#p830572

- 1 Samuel 15:2-3
Was God injuste to exterminate the Amelekites?
viewtopic.php?p=1032398#p1032398

- Leviticus 20:13
Should Christians repudiate the biblical laws calling for the execution of those guilty of performing homosexual acts?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 78#p994278

JW



RELATED POSTS

Is God more killer than kind?
viewtopic.php?p=959154#p959154

[JehovahsWitness]

But God does condone slavery

Yes he does but NOT the kind that is oppressive and abusive.



JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

Isn't slavery automatically abusive and thus morally objectionable?
viewtopic.php?p=1080087#p1080087


Why does Christian scripture not call for the abolition of Slavery?
viewtopic.php?p=1020929#p1020929

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

SLAVERY, CHILD ABUSE and ...THE MOSAIC LAW