What is the Biblical view of polygamy?

[AgnosticBoy]

My view is that God is okay with both monogamous and polygamous marriages. There are those who believe that God is for monogamy alone. On another thread, one member challenged me to show that God was okay with polygamy. Here is the relevant discussion:

Matthew 19:5 refers to the man's first marriage due to the fact that it says that he's leaving his parents' house. Even if it were not referring to a man's first marriage, my other points apply in that there is an exception to that rule.

Then cite the verse that proclaims a possible exception that would allow polygamy. Otherwise you're just and we can close our discussion here.


.

There are two ways that I can show that God wanted polygamy. One is in terms of His law, and the other is in terms of His actions toward polygamists.

In terms of law, God's law contained several rules that regulated the practice of polygamy. If polygamy were wrong, then God would forbid such practices entirely as opposed to just being concerned with how it is practiced. Ask yourself, if gay marriage was immoral, would God be concerned with how (assuming there was a good or certain way he wanted it) it was practiced, or would he ban the practice entirely?! The strongest case of a law that supports polygamy is the law on 'adultery'. I consider this to be the strongest case because it is part of the 10 commandments, and these laws would carry over even into the NT. Anyways, my point on adultery is how it is defined, which is as follows:
"An adulterer was a man who had illicit intercourse with a married or a betrothed woman, and such a woman was an adulteress"
https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/adultery/ (also here and here).

What I gather from this definition is that biblical adultery doesn't prohibit the husband from sleeping with all women, but rather it only prohibits him from sleeping with a woman who belongs to (married) to another man. Meanwhile, a married woman is prohibited from sleeping with all men besides her husband because the man who sleeps with her would be sleeping with a woman who belongs to someone. What would be the purpose for such unequal terms if not to be a tailor-made for polygyny? Also, you can further understand what adultery meant to the Jews based on how they and God enforced it. God NEVER condemned the act of a married man taking another woman (a single one) to be his wife, but yet he always condemned the married man who tried to take someone else's wife.

In terms of God's actions, polygamy is moral when the all-good God acts to support such marriages. We find the best case of this in Genesis 29:30-33, where we find that God is concerned with ONE man who does not love TWO wives. The all-good God then acts on his concern by helping one husband to love TWO women, and that is by helping both women to be fruitful. To put this in perspective, let's think about gay marriage since Christians are so against that. Would an all-good God that considers gay marriage to be immoral be concerned that two guys don't love each other? Would he intervene in their relationship in order to get both guys to love each other?!

Debate topic:
1. Given the above points, can we say that God is okay with polygamy? If not, then please offer a logical and evidenced based case that addresses my view and that of others who argue for biblical polygamy.

[JehovahsWitness]

POLYGAMY

(from Late Greek πολυγαμία, polygamía, "state of marriage to many spouses") is the practice of marrying multiple spouses. When a man is married to more than one wife at the same time, sociologists call this polygyny. When a woman is married to more than one husband at a time, it is called polyandry.



- Wikipedia

• POLYGAMY was a part of ancient Hebrew culture and a number of biblical patriarchs had more than one wife

• POLYGAMY was permitted and regulated under the Moasic law*

• POLYGAMY is prohibited for Christians; Jesus indicated this is in order to return to the edenic standard

* under the mosaic law prostitution was prohibited and all sexual intercourse outside of legal marriage was a punishable offense. (For more on this place consult the POST below
viewtopic.php?p=404057#p404057 )

MATTHEW 19:4-6 NWT

he said: “Have you not read that the one who created them from the beginning made them male and female and said: ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh’? So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has yoked together, let no man put apart.”

JW

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

SEX , MARRIAGE and ... DIVORCE

[bjs1]

[Replying to AgnosticBoy in post #1]

The provided definition of adultery is unusual, since more common definition is, “voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and someone other than that person's current spouse or partner.”
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/adultery

Even setting that aside, the full paragraph the opening post drew its definition of adultery from says, “An adulterer was a man who had illicit intercourse with a married or a betrothed woman, and such a woman was an adulteress. Intercourse between a married man and an unmarried woman was fornication.”

Fornication was also a sin in the Bible. So if the website that AgnosticBoy can be trusted then God regularly condemned the act of a married man taking another woman.


As for practice: I find that Genesis 29:30-33 provides an excellent example of how God responded to polygamy in the Old Testament. The text did not explicitly condemn Jacob for having two wives. However, his polygamy led to endless heartache. Leah felt unloved throughout her entire life. Jacob later favored Rachel’s children over Leah’s, driving a wedge between the brothers that directly led to them selling one of Rachel’s children into slavery (after first planning to murder him). Jacob’s continued favoritism brought years of suffering to his own family.

Throughout the Old Testament God never explicitly condemned polygamy as wrong. Rather, the underlying message was “Abandon all hope you who enter here.” Every example of polygamy in the Old Testament resulted from or resulted in (or both) sin, suffering and pain. Instead of condemning polygamy directly, the OT tried to “show, don’t tell” the sinful and destructive nature of such acts.

[AgnosticBoy]

[Replying to AgnosticBoy in post #1]

The provided definition of adultery is unusual, since more common definition is, “voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and someone other than that person's current spouse or partner.”
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/adultery

If you're trying to understand what the biblical writers meant then we obviously have to go by what words meant in their language and historico-cultural context. Of course, words can mean different things to different cultures and their meaning can change. If you're from a Western culture, then most likely you have witnessed the definition of marriage changing to allow for same-sex couples. If you're a Christian, then I doubt you would stick to the modern-day definition over the biblical one.

[Replying to AgnosticBoy in post #1]
Even setting that aside, the full paragraph the opening post drew its definition of adultery from says, “An adulterer was a man who had illicit intercourse with a married or a betrothed woman, and such a woman was an adulteress. Intercourse between a married man and an unmarried woman was fornication.”

Fornication was also a sin in the Bible. So if the website that AgnosticBoy can be trusted then God regularly condemned the act of a married man taking another woman.

I'm not seeing how your point addresses polygamy. Fornication is a sin, but polygamy does not involve fornication. In polygamy, in order for a husband to sleep with additional women beyond his first wife, he also has to commit to (marry) those other women. All the women he sleeps with are married women - married to him.

[Replying to AgnosticBoy in post #1]As for practice: I find that Genesis 29:30-33 provides an excellent example of how God responded to polygamy in the Old Testament. The text did not explicitly condemn Jacob for having two wives. However, his polygamy led to endless heartache. Leah felt unloved throughout her entire life. Jacob later favored Rachel’s children over Leah’s, driving a wedge between the brothers that directly led to them selling one of Rachel’s children into slavery (after first planning to murder him). Jacob’s continued favoritism brought years of suffering to his own family.

The text does not condemn Jacob for having two wives, but rather it actually shows that polygamy is moral. The simple reason for my conclusion is that all of God's actions are good, and if he wants a man to love ALL of his wives, then polygamy is moral. If God wanted only monogamy, then he would've been more than happy with Jacob loving only ONE wife. He would not have been listening to the other woman.

Throughout the Old Testament God never explicitly condemned polygamy as wrong. Rather, the underlying message was “Abandon all hope you who enter here.” Every example of polygamy in the Old Testament resulted from or resulted in (or both) sin, suffering and pain. Instead of condemning polygamy directly, the OT tried to “show, don’t tell” the sinful and destructive nature of such acts.

As I mentioned before, you can't just simply say that God never condemned polygamy, as if he was silent on its moral status. In post #1, I went into detail on two points that show that polygamy was moral. The logistics of these relationships were probably difficult to handle, but I don't believe that's inherent to polygamy. Hek, I could think of ways that could've resolved some of their problems, and the main thing would've been that the form of marriage was consensual. If you're a married man, and you just bring home another woman one day without your first wife ever knowing or consenting to it, well, that's going to be a very bad start for a polygamous marriage.

[PinSeeker]

[Replying to AgnosticBoy in post #1]

The provided definition of adultery is unusual, since more common definition is, “voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and someone other than that person's current spouse or partner.”
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/adultery

Even setting that aside, the full paragraph the opening post drew its definition of adultery from says, “An adulterer was a man who had illicit intercourse with a married or a betrothed woman, and such a woman was an adulteress. Intercourse between a married man and an unmarried woman was fornication.”

Fornication was also a sin in the Bible. So if the website that AgnosticBoy can be trusted then God regularly condemned the act of a married man taking another woman.


As for practice: I find that Genesis 29:30-33 provides an excellent example of how God responded to polygamy in the Old Testament. The text did not explicitly condemn Jacob for having two wives. However, his polygamy led to endless heartache. Leah felt unloved throughout her entire life. Jacob later favored Rachel’s children over Leah’s, driving a wedge between the brothers that directly led to them selling one of Rachel’s children into slavery (after first planning to murder him). Jacob’s continued favoritism brought years of suffering to his own family.

Throughout the Old Testament God never explicitly condemned polygamy as wrong. Rather, the underlying message was “Abandon all hope you who enter here.” Every example of polygamy in the Old Testament resulted from or resulted in (or both) sin, suffering and pain. Instead of condemning polygamy directly, the OT tried to “show, don’t tell” the sinful and destructive nature of such acts.

Excellent post. I'll just add to your "practice" section the example of David and his brothers. especially Amnon and Absolam, starting in 2 Samuel 11 and following, through the end of the book (chapter 24.) God looked on these things, shall we say, unkindly, and suffering, pain, and mourning of David and his family -- and actually even all of Israel, because David was king; see 2 Samuel 24:10-17 -- were surely the result of the horrific actions therein, polygamy certainly being one, along with rape, adultery, and several other things.

Grace and peace to all.

[PinSeeker]

As I mentioned before, you can't just simply say that God never condemned polygamy...

Oh, but he can. Actions very often speak louder than mere words, AgnosticBoy, especially if the words have already been spoken (and they were).

[Miles]

My view is that God is okay with both monogamous and polygamous marriages. There are those who believe that God is for monogamy alone. On another thread, one member challenged me to show that God was okay with polygamy. Here is the relevant discussion:

Matthew 19:5 refers to the man's first marriage due to the fact that it says that he's leaving his parents' house. Even if it were not referring to a man's first marriage, my other points apply in that there is an exception to that rule.

Then cite the verse that proclaims a possible exception that would allow polygamy. Otherwise you're just and we can close our discussion here.


.

There are two ways that I can show that God wanted polygamy. One is in terms of His law, and the other is in terms of His actions toward polygamists.

In terms of law, God's law contained several rules that regulated the practice of polygamy. If polygamy were wrong, then God would forbid such practices entirely as opposed to just being concerned with how it is practiced. Ask yourself, if gay marriage was immoral, would God be concerned with how (assuming there was a good or certain way he wanted it) it was practiced, or would he ban the practice entirely?! The strongest case of a law that supports polygamy is the law on 'adultery'. I consider this to be the strongest case because it is part of the 10 commandments, and these laws would carry over even into the NT. Anyways, my point on adultery is how it is defined, which is as follows:
"An adulterer was a man who had illicit intercourse with a married or a betrothed woman, and such a woman was an adulteress"
https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/adultery/ (also here and here).

What I gather from this definition is that biblical adultery doesn't prohibit the husband from sleeping with all women, but rather it only prohibits him from sleeping with a woman who belongs to (married) to another man. Meanwhile, a married woman is prohibited from sleeping with all men besides her husband because the man who sleeps with her would be sleeping with a woman who belongs to someone. What would be the purpose for such unequal terms if not to be a tailor-made for polygyny? Also, you can further understand what adultery meant to the Jews based on how they and God enforced it. God NEVER condemned the act of a married man taking another woman (a single one) to be his wife, but yet he always condemned the married man who tried to take someone else's wife.

In terms of God's actions, polygamy is moral when the all-good God acts to support such marriages. We find the best case of this in Genesis 29:30-33, where we find that God is concerned with ONE man who does not love TWO wives. The all-good God then acts on his concern by helping one husband to love TWO women, and that is by helping both women to be fruitful. To put this in perspective, let's think about gay marriage since Christians are so against that. Would an all-good God that considers gay marriage to be immoral be concerned that two guys don't love each other? Would he intervene in their relationship in order to get both guys to love each other?!

Debate topic:
1. Given the above points, can we say that God is okay with polygamy? If not, then please offer a logical and evidenced based case that addresses my view and that of others who argue for biblical polygamy.

And after all these words, still not a single verse that proclaims a possible exception that would allow polygamy. The just continues to go on. ....*sigh*


.

[AgnosticBoy]

[Replying to Miles in post #7]
Are you saying that my arguments don't show that God was okay with polygamy?

When Jacob has one wife then he is to love his wife (singular). When Jacob has two wives, then he is to love his wives.

[Miles]

[Replying to Miles in post #7]
Are you saying that my arguments don't show that God was okay with polygamy?

When Jacob has one wife then he is to love his wife (singular). When Jacob has two wives, then he is to love his wives.

But Genesis 29 never says Jacob had two wives. If I missed it please cite the verse.


.

[Difflugia]

And after all these words, still not a single verse that proclaims a possible exception that would allow polygamy.

Deuteronomy 21:15:

If a man have two wives, the one beloved, and the other hated, and they have borne him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the first-born son be hers that was hated...

But Genesis 29 never says Jacob had two wives. If I missed it please cite the verse.

I assume that you're contesting that Leah was actually Jacob's wife? Considering how obvious Genesis 29:23 is, I can only assume you're playing a game of "it doesn't technically say." Unfortunately for your argument, Leah otherwise refers to Jacob as husband in Genesis 29:32, 29:34, 30:18, and 30:20, Jacob refers to his multiple wives in 30:26, the narrator refers to his plural wives in 31:17, and Laban refers to his daughters collectively as Jacob's wives in 31:50. Interestingly, Jacob sends his "two wives and two slaves" across the Jabbok in 32:22, so there's an interesting discussion about whether slaves used for sex are properly wives, but there's no question that he has at least two wives.

Even without any of those verses, though, you're still trying to split some mighty fine hairs. Dancing a bit, one might say.