If you don't trust the Bible, Where do you look for truth?

[2timothy316]

What say you?
Also, if you don't see an option in the vote then add it in a comment.

[onewithhim]

But yet not confident it enough to believe it.

Yet? There is no 'yet' for those that your god decided thousands of years ago will not believe. So are you lying to us that we are able to build confidence to believe? Are you saying it us up to us to whether we are confident or not? Or are you just rubbing our nose in your dogma that we are not able to do what you do?

The Bible says, "Moreover, without faith it is impossible to please God well, for whoever approaches God must believe that he is and that he becomes the rewarder of those earnestly seeking him." - Heb 11:6
Can a person make the choice to seek out God?

I never lie therefore I would not be lying to you. The bible can't talk,
someone of flesh and blood said: "Moreover, without faith it is impossible to please God well, for whoever approaches God must believe that he is and that he becomes the rewarder of those earnestly seeking him." - Heb 11:6
There are many that have faith and do not please God.
Spirit and truth pleases God.

So for this statement to be correct it would have to be worded this way:
without faith in Spirit and truth it is impossible to please God well, for whoever approaches God must believe
in Spirit and truth that he is and that he is the rewarder of them who seek Him in Spirit and truth.

So a person can choose to seek God and can be rewarded for doing so, cool got it. Glad to see you've altered your dogma.

A person will choose that to which was already determined by God
that they would choose before they made their choice to which was predetermined
long before they were born.

Isaiah 65:1
I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not

If a person "chooses" that which has already determined by God, then that person hasn't really made a choice, has he? This person is a robot, or, an automaton. He is unable to make choices on his own. I'm sorry, but a merciful, kind God would not do that to people.

"...You must choose life in order that you may keep alive." (Deut.30:19b) How could God say that to anyone with a straight face if the person could NOT choose? The indication that a person can actually choose is seen in the verses before this, where Jehovah warns the people that if they DO NOT choose to obey Him, they will perish. So clearly, a person could choose life or choose to perish.

.

Oh really? So tell me when do you choose to die?

We make a choice by not going ahead and harming ourselves. That is a choice. I could choose to go and jump off the Empire State Building, or I could (and DO) choose NOT to do that. God has not fixed our deaths in stone. We die whenever our bodies wear out or there is an unforseen accident.

.

[nobspeople]

What say you?
Also, if you don't see an option in the vote then add it in a comment.

I think truth can be found from multiple sources. We don't need 'just one'. That said, this does open the possibility for conflict. Ultimately, you have to rely on yourself (and your influences) to discover the truth for you. It's worth nothing you may never find all the truth you seek.

[2timothy316]

What say you?
Also, if you don't see an option in the vote then add it in a comment.

I think truth can be found from multiple sources. We don't need 'just one'. That said, this does open the possibility for conflict. Ultimately, you have to rely on yourself (and your influences) to discover the truth for you. It's worth nothing you may never find all the truth you seek.

Truth is not subjective. There is no such thing as 'alternative facts'.

[nobspeople]

What say you?
Also, if you don't see an option in the vote then add it in a comment.

I think truth can be found from multiple sources. We don't need 'just one'. That said, this does open the possibility for conflict. Ultimately, you have to rely on yourself (and your influences) to discover the truth for you. It's worth nothing you may never find all the truth you seek.

Truth is not subjective. There is no such thing as 'alternative facts'.

That depends on the truth you're speaking about.
1+1 is 2? That's the truth
Jesus is the way? Maybe not.
So, depending on what 'truth' we're talking about, it can be. Or not.

[2timothy316]

What say you?
Also, if you don't see an option in the vote then add it in a comment.

I think truth can be found from multiple sources. We don't need 'just one'. That said, this does open the possibility for conflict. Ultimately, you have to rely on yourself (and your influences) to discover the truth for you. It's worth nothing you may never find all the truth you seek.

Truth is not subjective. There is no such thing as 'alternative facts'.

That depends on the truth you're speaking about.
1+1 is 2? That's the truth
Jesus is the way? Maybe not.
So, depending on what 'truth' we're talking about, it can be. Or not.

He either will be proven to be or not.
There are no women that are sort of pregnant or people that are mostly dead.
There are no 'types of truth'. Schrodinger's cat doesn't stay both dead and alive forever. The box will be opened and there will be one truth, no types of truth.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #145]

He either will be proven to be or not. The box will be opened and there will be one truth, no types of truth.

Maybe
Or maybe that won't even be a question we need to deal with at that time?

There are no women that are sort of pregnant or people that are mostly dead.

I would agree but only if we agree on the definitions of the words bolded

There are no 'types of truth'.

Not true. A person can believe anything is true if they want to and can convince themselves of it. Happens all the time. Rather you or I believe it's true doesn't matter to them. So to them, it's true, while to us, it's not. What's right? Us? Them? Neither? Both? It's not as easy to answer if we're honest with ourselves and actually think about it from another's POV

Schrodinger's cat doesn't stay both dead and alive forever.

If that doesn't matter to another person, is it true to them? Is it false? Do they even care? And if not, does truth even enter in to the equation?

EIDT
But if we're talking about God being true (et al), my opinion is: maybe.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #146]

Belief doesn't equal truth. I can believe I can fly by flapping my arms the truth will be revealed when I jump off a cliff.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #146]

Belief doesn't equal truth. I can believe I can fly by flapping my arms the truth will be revealed when I jump off a cliff.

Correct. They aren't the same thing. But that doesn't mean someone can believe in something that's not true or vice versa.

No one can prove to everyone that God is 'the truth' (or even whatever that means) no easier than someone can prove to everyone that he's not. It's all about belief, which doesn't require truth in any way to exist.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #146]

Belief doesn't equal truth. I can believe I can fly by flapping my arms the truth will be revealed when I jump off a cliff.

Correct. They aren't the same thing. But that doesn't mean someone can believe in something that's not true or vice versa.

No one can prove to everyone that God is 'the truth' (or even whatever that means) no easier than someone can prove to everyone that he's not. It's all about belief, which doesn't require truth in any way to exist.

Yet there are things we can do point us what is true by looking at what is known. While there is belief in God and belief there is no God, people are using (or should be) using what they know to come to their conclusion. What I find is though, is that people throw out useful knowledge. Such as the Bible and physical evidence. So it's not as simple I want to believe this or that so I will. This is called credulity.

It's an algebra problem, solve for X. 14-X=9. I believe X must equal 5.
People should approach where they find truth the same way. Take what is known and make a supported belief. But many don't. What they want to do is change the equation to make X what they want it to be. Someone might say, I want the X to be 8 so I'm going to throw out 14 and put in 17. People put in what is not supported, doesn't fit, completely made up and reject what is right in front of them.

Truth can be found without having all the proof, we do it all the time in everyday life. But to just believe just to personal cause is flawed and likely never to lead to truth.

[Purple Knight]

I look to other people, mainly those considered more moral than most.

Yes, this does include religious figures, but when including those, I have to keep a very, very close eye on what the moral value would be if I imitated the words and actions of said figure. The vast majority of the time, when considering religious figures, the answer is that the action, belief, or moral value in question would definitely not make me moral if I did it.