Is Jesus a created being?

[Wootah]

Colossians 1:16-20 English Standard Version (ESV)
16 For by[a] him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. 19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

https://biblehub.com/text/colossians/1-16.htm

So Jesus is uncreated yeah?

[PinSeeker]

[Replying to Wootah in post #1]

Uncreated... and Creator. But of course you knew I was going to say that...

Grace and peace to you, Wootah.

[bjs1]

[Replying to Wootah in post #1]

We get the same basic concept in John 1:3.

"Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made."

[myth-one.com]

Colossians 1:16-20 English Standard Version (ESV)
16 For by[a] him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. 19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

It was the Word who created everything -- not Jesus:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (John 1:1-3)

So Jesus is uncreated yeah?

No, Jesus was "made" or created:

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us... (John 1:14)

You're confusing The Word with Jesus.

The Word is an immortal spiritual being, while Jesus was a man.

[bjs1]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #4]

To be clear, are you saying that the Word is not Jesus?

That appears to be what you are saying, but it is such an uncommon idea and it contradicts the plain meaning of the first chapter of John so I want to make sure I understand you.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #4]

To be clear, are you saying that the Word is not Jesus?

That appears to be what you are saying, but it is such an uncommon idea and it contradicts the plain meaning of the first chapter of John so I want to make sure I understand you.

I'm claiming that's what the scriptures state:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

So the Word is God.

The Word created every thing ever created:

All things were made by him(the Word); and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Jesus was the Word made flesh.

That is, Jesus was the Word "made" temporarily as a man.

He was made as a man so that He could die:

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. (Hebrews 2:9)

The Word is immortal, so the Word was made as the mortal man Jesus.

Jesus lived a sinless human life and became the only person qualifying for everlasting life under the Old Testament Covenant.

God then allowed Jesus to offer His inheritance as a gift to all mankind who believe in Him as their Savior from the wages of their sins.

The New Testament was then created to define this new requirement for mankind to gain everlasting life:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Thus, everlasting life becomes the gift of God through Jesus Christ.

[bjs1]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #6]

I find myself more confused about what you believe than I was before. Stop me when I get to the point that you disagree with.

You wrote:

“Jesus was the Word made flesh. That is, Jesus was the Word "made" temporarily as a man.”

So the Word already existed. And the Word is God.

Then the Word was “made” flesh.

Normally, when someone which exists is then “made” something, then that person (or thing or whatever) is still himself but with another dimension added to him. For instance, if a woman gives birth she might say that she “made” her husband a father. Her husband has not ceased to be the man he was, but he is now also a father. Or a sheriff might “make” someone his deputy. The deputy is still the person she was before, but she is now also a deputy. Or again, a high ranking officer might make another soldier an officer. That soldier is still the person he was before, but he is now also an officer.

So if the Word was “made” flesh then He remained the Word as he was before, but he also became flesh.

Just as a man is the same person both before and after he becomes a father, so the Word was the same both before and after the incarnation.

So the scripture states that Jesus is Word and the Word is God.

However, this would contradict your statement in post four that “It was the Word who created everything -- not Jesus,” since, again, Jesus is the Word. Please explain.

[Wootah]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #6]

I find myself more confused about what you believe than I was before. Stop me when I get to the point that you disagree with.

You wrote:

“Jesus was the Word made flesh. That is, Jesus was the Word "made" temporarily as a man.”

So the Word already existed. And the Word is God.

Then the Word was “made” flesh.

Normally, when someone which exists is then “made” something, then that person (or thing or whatever) is still himself but with another dimension added to him. For instance, if a woman gives birth she might say that she “made” her husband a father. Her husband has not ceased to be the man he was, but he is now also a Father. Or a sheriff might “make” someone his deputy. The deputy is still the person she was before, but she is now also a deputy. Or again, a high ranking officer might make another soldier an officer. That soldier is still the person he was before, but he is now also an officer.

So if the Word was “made” flesh then the He remained Word as he was before, but he also became flesh.

Just as a man is the same person both before and after he becomes a father, so the Word was the same both before and after the incarnation.

So the scripture states that Jesus is Word and the Word is God.

However, this would contradict your statement in post for that “It was the Word who created everything -- not Jesus,” since, again, Jesus is the Word. Please explain.

Wootah donates BJ 100 tokens.

[myth-one.com]

There are natural bodies and there are spiritual bodies.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

A man who becomes a father is still a man. A man who becomes a deputy is still a man.

A man who becomes whatever is still a man.

======================================================================

Is Jesus a created being?

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us...

Create = to make.

The answer is yes, Jesus was created or made.

[bjs1]

There are natural bodies and there are spiritual bodies.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

A man who becomes a father is still a man. A man who becomes a deputy is still a man.

A man who becomes whatever is still a man.

This is true. So let us apply your reasoning to John 1:14.

The Word who becomes a man is still the Word.

Is Jesus a created being?

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us...

Create = to make.

The answer is yes, Jesus was created or made.

I am ever more confused. In the first half of your post you seem to accept the plain sense meaning of saying that "a man who becomes whatever is still a man." But now, without any explanation as to why, you reject the plain sense meaning of saying that "the Word was was made flesh" would still be the Word. Can you explain this inconsistency?