YHWH

[Wootah]

Y - the hand
H - reveals
W - the nail
H - reveals

How is anyone that believes YHWH is God able to negate the evidence above that YHWH is Jesus?

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/je ... -is-yahweh

YHWH is the name above all names correct?

Philippians 2:9-11 says — Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

Anyone want to directly confront both pieces of evidence?

[onewithhim]

Does any trinitarian have an answer as to why only Jesus gets all of the glory and honor, and the Father and Holy Spirit are rarely mentioned? Aren't they all equal (in your estimation)?

[Difflugia]

Does any trinitarian have an answer as to why only Jesus gets all of the glory and honor, and the Father and Holy Spirit are rarely mentioned? Aren't they all equal (in your estimation)?

I guess I'm not actually a trinitarian (more of a nullitarian, actually), but I don't think that's a particularly tough question to answer. Jesus was the direct mouthpiece of God in the narratives of the New Testament. Even in cases where non-God human beings said what are doctrinally God's utterances, the statements are often referred to as though they are the person's ("as spoken by the prophet Isaiah," for example). As Jesus is the human embodiment of Yahweh's will, what Jesus said and did is no more or less than what Yahweh said and did. In short, it's a convention that is suggested by the form that the Gospels take as the "good news of Jesus Christ." They're no less the "good news of Yahweh," but it would take at least a minor effort of will to overturn the convention of attributing the "good news" to Jesus specifically. That might be a worthy effort to make in a devotional sense, but the convention itself says little or nothing about trinitarian doctrine either way.

[onewithhim]

I see what you're saying, but you really didn't answer my question. The Father is very rarely mentioned. If He is God, why is that the case? To most of the churches, Jesus is God to the practical exclusion of the Father. I think the H.S. is mentioned more than the Father, but also rarely. If all three are EQUAL, why is Jesus alone extolled?

.

[Difflugia]

I see what you're saying, but you really didn't answer my question.

Unless I misunderstood your question, I did. To condense my previous post to its essence, Jesus gets the "glory and honor" because Jesus is the one quoted and discussed in the New Testament.

[onewithhim]

I see what you're saying, but you really didn't answer my question.

Unless I misunderstood your question, I did. To condense my previous post to its essence, Jesus gets the "glory and honor" because Jesus is the one quoted and discussed in the New Testament.

But Jesus talks about his Father all the time. The Holy Spirit is also mentioned, quite frequently. (Jesus quotes his Father often.)

[Difflugia]

But Jesus talks about his Father all the time. The Holy Spirit is also mentioned, quite frequently. (Jesus quotes his Father often.)

You weren't asking about who Jesus quoted or mentioned, you were asking why modern Christians typically place more emphasis on Jesus than on Yahweh and the Holy Spirit.

[onewithhim]

But Jesus talks about his Father all the time. The Holy Spirit is also mentioned, quite frequently. (Jesus quotes his Father often.)

You weren't asking about who Jesus quoted or mentioned, you were asking why modern Christians typically place more emphasis on Jesus than on Yahweh and the Holy Spirit.

You replied that it is because Jesus is the one quoted and discussed in the N.T. and I said ---but Jesus quotes the Father frequently and he discusses the Father, so what you say doesn't hold up. Jesus himself brings our attention to the Father, so he is not the center of attention in the N.T. in actuality. Why have people made him the center of attention?

[Difflugia]

You replied that it is because Jesus is the one quoted and discussed in the N.T. and I said ---but Jesus quotes the Father frequently and he discusses the Father, so what you say doesn't hold up. Jesus himself brings our attention to the Father, so he is not the center of attention in the N.T. in actuality. Why have people made him the center of attention?

OK. I had to stare at this in bafflement for a minute, but I think I figured out what's going on. You weren't asking why people are in acuality worshipping because you're trying to understand it, but are instead trying to have a discussion about how they should be worshipping. So, I was misunderstanding your question.

In that case, my opinion is that Christians should focus on Jesus, the man-made-divine while reading Mark, the man-born-divine while reading Matthew and Luke, the divinity-become-man while reading John, and man-made-omnipresent-antithesis-of-carnality-and-sin while reading the Paulines. The problem isn't either trinitarianism or any of the various forms of non-trinitarianism, it's trying to shoehorn at least four unreconcilable Christologies into the same Jesus. It's seven or more if you sit down and start seriously deconstructing Hebrews, the Catholic epistles, and Revelation. Take the nativity verses of Revelation, for example (Rev. 12:1-6):

And a great sign was seen in heaven: a woman arrayed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars; and she was with child; and she crieth out, travailing in birth, and in pain to be delivered. And there was seen another sign in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his heads seven diadems. And his tail draweth the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon standeth before the woman that is about to be delivered, that when she is delivered he may devour her child. And she was delivered of a son, a man child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and unto his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that there they may nourish her a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

This smacks enough of the Qur'an's version of the nativity that there may be a distant connection to a nativity tradition independent of either Matthew or Luke:

Mention in the Qur’an the story of Mary. She withdrew from her family to a place to the east and secluded herself away; We sent Our Spirit to appear before her in the form of a perfected man. She said, ‘I seek the Lord of Mercy’s protection against you: if you have any fear of Him [do not approach]!’ but he said, ‘I am but a Messenger from your Lord, [come] to announce to you the gift of a pure son.’ She said, ‘How can I have a son when no man has touched me? I have not been unchaste,’ and he said, ‘This is what your Lord said: “It is easy for Me—We shall make him a sign to all people, a blessing from Us.”’ And so it was ordained: she conceived him. She withdrew to a distant place and, when the pains of childbirth drove her to [cling to] the trunk of a palm tree, she exclaimed, ‘I wish I had been dead and forgotten long before all this!’ but a voice cried to her from below, ‘Do not worry: your Lord has provided a stream at your feet and, if you shake the trunk of the palm tree towards you, it will deliver fresh ripe dates for you, so eat, drink, be glad, and say to anyone you may see: “I have vowed to the Lord of Mercy to abstain from conversation, and I will not talk to anyone today.”’

Was that Jesus divine, but separate from Yahweh as in Matthew and Luke or in a divine unity with God as in the Fourth Gospel? In the Qur'an, despite the supernatural nativity, Jesus wasn't divine at all.

[1213]

....How is anyone that believes YHWH is God able to negate the evidence above that YHWH is Jesus?

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/je ... -is-yahweh

YHWH is the name above all names correct?

Philippians 2:9-11 says — Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

Anyone want to directly confront both pieces of evidence?

I think it is interesting that God has given his name to Jesus. Jesus acts in the name of God. How could that be, if he is the one and only true God?

“…your name which you have given me…”
John 17:11

[emilynghiem]

Does any trinitarian have an answer as to why only Jesus gets all of the glory and honor, and the Father and Holy Spirit are rarely mentioned? Aren't they all equal (in your estimation)?

Dear @onewithhim
The best way I can explain this is by equating
Jesus with JUSTICE.
You know the phrase NO JUSTICE NO PEACE?
This means that Justice must be established first in order to have PEACE which
accompanies Justice as the result.

As for God's Kingdom, by explaining this as TRUTH
then we have the trinity expressed as
TRUTH, JUSTICE and PEACE.
In that order.

We must agree that our goal is to seek TRUTH
or the Kingdom of God, and we agree to get to TRUTH
we establish JUSTICE between us. And this brings PEACE.