Why did God kill this guy?

[Elijah John]

Why did God kill the guy who attempted to steady the ark?

For debate, and from this incident.

1) What does that teach us about God?

2) What does that teach us about the folks who wrote the tale?

3) Is there some other, reasonable explanation of why this guy died or why he was killed?

4) Do you think this guy who was trying to protect something sacred, deserved to be punished with death his efforts? Should he have been rewarded instead?

I deliberately put this topic on TD&D and not on C&A because I hope to minimize the reflexive "this proves the Bible God is a monster" type replies.

[Wootah]

Why did God kill the guy who attempted to steady the ark?

For debate, and from this incident.

1) What does that teach us about God?

2) What does that teach us about the folks who wrote the tale?

3) Is there some other, reasonable explanation of why this guy died or why he was killed?

4) Do you think this guy who was trying to protect something sacred, deserved to be punished with death his efforts? Should he have been rewarded instead?

I deliberately put this topic on TD&D and not on C&A because I hope to minimize the reflexive "this proves the Bible God is a monster" type replies.

What's your thoughts?

Mine is that he touched something holy. That's usually death.

[Elijah John]

Why did God kill the guy who attempted to steady the ark?

For debate, and from this incident.

1) What does that teach us about God?

2) What does that teach us about the folks who wrote the tale?

3) Is there some other, reasonable explanation of why this guy died or why he was killed?

4) Do you think this guy who was trying to protect something sacred, deserved to be punished with death his efforts? Should he have been rewarded instead?

I deliberately put this topic on TD&D and not on C&A because I hope to minimize the reflexive "this proves the Bible God is a monster" type replies.

What's your thoughts?

Mine is that he touched something holy. That's usually death.

Was Jesus holy? People touched him and were healed.

Also, why would God kill someone who was attempting to prevent the Ark from falling to the dirt? Wouldn't that be desecration?

[FWI]

Why did God kill the guy who attempted to steady the ark?

The bible is clear on how the Ark of the Covenant would be transported (Ex. 25:10-15) and the usage of a cart was not allowed! In Numbers 3:30-31 it is recorded that the family of Kohath's duties included the Ark, the table, the lampstand, the altars, the utensils of the sanctuary with which they ministered, the screen and all the work relating to them. However, only the family of Aaron (also from the family of Kohath) were permitted to touch these articles…Numbers 4:15 tells us that Aaron and his sons would cover the sanctuary and all the furnishings, then the family, which Uzzah was part of would carry these items. But, Numbers 7:4-9 tells us that this must be done on their shoulders and not in carts!

So, it is clear that the people involved were disobeying God's commands and making their own rules…Because of this, Uzzah paid the ultimate price by touching the Ark of the Covenant (not being from the family of Aaron). Yet, others sinned as well, but we don't know what type of consequences befell them. Therefore, when it is obvious that men are rejecting God's commands, we should not be surprised that consequences will eventually occur (some sooner, than others).

[Elijah John]

Why did God kill the guy who attempted to steady the ark?

The bible is clear on how the Ark of the Covenant would be transported (Ex. 25:10-15) and the usage of a cart was not allowed! In Numbers 3:30-31 it is recorded that the family of Kohath's duties included the Ark, the table, the lampstand, the altars, the utensils of the sanctuary with which they ministered, the screen and all the work relating to them. However, only the family of Aaron (also from the family of Kohath) were permitted to touch these articles…Numbers 4:15 tells us that Aaron and his sons would cover the sanctuary and all the furnishings, then the family, which Uzzah was part of would carry these items. But, Numbers 7:4-9 tells us that this must be done on their shoulders and not in carts!

So, it is clear that the people involved were disobeying God's commands and making their own rules…Because of this, Uzzah paid the ultimate price by touching the Ark of the Covenant (not being from the family of Aaron). Yet, others sinned as well, but we don't know what type of consequences befell them. Therefore, when it is obvious that men are rejecting God's commands, we should not be surprised that consequences will eventually occur (some sooner, than others).

So, would God have preferred that the Ark fell to the dirt and hit the ground? Wouldn't that have been a desecration?

And why were there no Aaronic escorts or guards there, to steady the Ark?

Numbers 7.4-9 refers to the carrying of offerings, not to the transportation of the Ark. That's how I read it anyway.

[JehovahsWitness]

So, would God have preferred that the Ark fell to the dirt and hit the ground? Wouldn't that have been a desecration?

God prefers obedience.

The fault was all around, starting with the king and the priests since the ark was never to be transported in any way but carried by the priests on their shoulders. It certainly wasn't to be put on a cart and pulled along.

It wasn't even to be looked at let alone touched.

And why were there no Aaronic escorts or guards there, to steady the Ark?

Good question - are you going to blame God for that ?! Whose fault was it that the priests weren't doing their job?

They disobeyed God and paid the price.


JW



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[PinSeeker]

So, would God have preferred that the Ark fell to the dirt and hit the ground? Wouldn't that have been a desecration?

God prefers obedience.

The fault was all around, starting with the king and the priests since the ark was never to be transported in any way but carried by the priests on their shoulders. It certainly wasn't to be put on a cart and pulled along.

It wasn't even to be looked at let alone touched.

And why were there no Aaronic escorts or guards there, to steady the Ark?

Good question - are you going to blame God for that ?! Whose fault was it that the priests weren't doing their job?

They disobeyed God and paid the price.

Absolutely correct. And I would add having and showing lack of faith/trust in God by Uzzah's and others' thinking, even instinctively, that God needs "help" in (or that any work of man is effective or contributory to) protecting and ensuring the safety of the Ark, and through it, His people. The Ark symbolized something far, far greater than just a gold box; it was a picture of the Person and completely sufficient saving work of Christ... the giving of God Himself for man's salvation.

Grace and peace to all.

[Elijah John]

So, defenders of the incident, what would Jesus do? Which would he have valued more?

Would he have valued human beings who were made in YHVH's image? Or the sacred object. I suspect the former. Or were human beings disposable to Jesus?

And who was holy, the Ark? Jesus? Both?

People touched Jesus and were healed, rather than being punished with death. Jesus was holy, so...Something doesn't add up.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 8 by Elijah John]

I can't believe Jesus would ever oppose Jehovah's judgement - notice the account said that the man was killed by divine intervention at Jehovah's own hand. So God himself had judged the matter (although it was covered by the law) and saw no basis for clemency. Since Jesus never gave any indication he opposed his Father in any way, nor did he express discontent with the law, there is no reason not to believe had it been his (Jesus) place, he would have kiled the man himself.

In any case, there is every reason to believe the account was in scripture when Jesus walked the earth and had he wished to express his disagreement with any part of its content he could have have done so.



JW

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 8 by Elijah John]

Would he have valued human beings who were made in YHVH's image? Or the sacred object.

That is not the question. It wasn't a choice between valuing a human life or an object, it was a choice between valuing obedience to God over a human, and Jesus never indicated he placed anyone or anything above his loyalty to his Father.

The real the question is, would Jesus have chosen to oppose God and side with individuals who willfully disrespected Gods law and by virtue of that showed utter disdain for his Father or would he have recognised that divine law was the lifeblood of the nation and that respecting the ark and the priestly arrangement was a way to express their respect God and in doing so protect the lives of the thousands of men women and children that depended on a healthy theocratic arrangement.

You may or may not understand the above, but I believe Jesus would have grasped all that disrespecting Gods explicit commands implied.

And that he would not have been okay with that!



JW