A belief of the Jehovah Witnesses?

polonius · Post by **polonius** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:02 am

Garbe, Detlef (2008). Between Resistance and Martyrdom: Jehovah's Witnesses in the Third Reich. University of Wisconsin Press. pp. 37, 38. ISBN 0-299-20794-3.

" In their opinion, only people who have accepted Jehovah and subsequently submit to his requirements will survive Armageddon and enter into the New World ... Jehovah's Witnesses also believe that a person confessing to worship God has to be associated with the true Christian denomination. Since they claim to be the only true religious denomination, they also claim to have the only means for salvation."

Is this a belief that all Jehovah Witnesses hold?

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:27 pm

tam wrote:
Smoking does not make a person unclean. It is bad for their bodies, yes, but this is not what defiles a person; this is not what makes a person unclean.

JEHOVAHS WITNESSES ARE A CLEAN PEOPLE INSIDE AND OUT

Jehovahs Witneses accept the whole bible as the word of God and if God commands us to cleanse our flesh as well as our spirit, we obey.

1 CORINTHIANS 7:1

"Therefore, since we have these promises, beloved ones, let us cleanse ourselves of every defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in God's fear."

We leave the cherry picking to those nominal Christians that wish to ignore 2 Corinthians 7:1 and believe deliberately putting our god-given life in danger by inhaling poisionous toxins for carnel pleasure is the right thing for a follower of Christ. We ask ourselveves what would Jesus do, if your Jesus would have a cigarette hanging out of his mouth while preaching, or be ready to offer a tar stained body as a pure sacrifice to God, go follow him. We choose the living and true Cnrist.

God indeed looks inside the heart but he also judges our actions. You teach disobedience to Christian law and principle, Jesus came down hard on those that taught there own opinon, as you do, rather than accept the word of God. Jude also warned us against those who, like you that teach that we can use Gods underserved kindness as an excuse for loose conduct.

JW

tam · Post by **tam** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:18 am

Peace to you,

JehovahsWitness wrote:
tam wrote:
Smoking does not make a person unclean. It is bad for their bodies, yes, but this is not what defiles a person; this is not what makes a person unclean.

JEHOVAHS WITNESSES ARE A CLEAN PEOPLE INSIDE AND OUT

I don't think I'm the one you're arguing with.

Jehovahs Witneses accept the whole bible as the word of God and if God commands us to cleanse our flesh as well as our spirit, we obey.

I will listen to Christ to know what God commands of me. I will put the words of my Lord first - always. Because He is the Truth and the Word of God; He is the One who has the words of eternal life; He is the One to whom my Father in heaven drew me; He is the One to whom God said to listen.

I will hold all other words (and inspired expressions) up against the Light (who is Christ).

1 CORINTHIANS 7:1

"Therefore, since we have these promises, beloved ones, let us cleanse ourselves of every defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in God's fear."

The context of Paul's words are contained in the few verses previous to this verse.

Unless Paul was contradicting Christ, then Paul could not have meant that something a person put into their body makes them unclean. Because Christ said the exact opposite.

All of you, listen to Me and understand: Nothing that enters a man from the outside can defile him; but the things that come out of a man, these are what defile him Mark 7:15

I believe Him.

We leave the cherry picking to those nominal Christians that wish to ignore 2 Corinthians 7:1 and believe deliberately putting our god-given life in danger by inhaling poisionous toxins for carnel pleasure is the right thing for a follower of Christ.

Then don't do it. I do not smoke either. But I am certainly not going to judge and/or shun someone else for smoking.

And it is not what defiles a person.

We ask ourselveves what would Jesus do, if your Jesus would have a cigarette hanging out of his mouth while preaching, or be ready to offer a tar stained body as a pure sacrifice to God, go follow him. We choose the living and true Cnrist.

You think the living and true Christ would shun a person for smoking, and call them defiled, when He Himself said that nothing which goes into a man defiles him?

He told us what defiles a man (not what goes into a man, but what comes out of a man):

But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these things defile a man. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, and slander. THESE are what defile a man...

You teach disobedience to Christian law and principle

,

A - I do not teach; I obey and follow the One who DOES teach; the Teacher (Christ Jaheshua).

"He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."

I can only point to Christ, perhaps remind some of His words, His commands. What others do with that is not up to me.

B - I posted the words of Christ (as I always do) to support what I have said. You did not.

Show me where Christ commanded that people who smoke be shunned. Show me where the apostles commanded this. Not even Paul's words at 2 Corinth 7:1 - no matter how you interpret them - mention a word about shunning.

Jesus came down hard on those that taught there own opinon, as you do, rather than accept the word of God.

Christ (Jaheshua) is the Word of God. I shared HIS words and the understanding He has given me.

Jude also warned us against those who, like you that teach that we can use Gods underserved kindness as an excuse for loose conduct.

I did no such thing.

How can mercy be described as loose conduct? How can 'not judging' be described as loose conduct? How can one be accused of teaching loose conduct simply for sharing (and believing) what Christ said on a matter?

Peace again to you, and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy (the only editing done was to fix the quote marks)

Post by **otseng** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:41 am

JehovahsWitness wrote:Jesus came down hard on those that taught there own opinon, as you do, rather than accept the word of God.

Moderator Comment

Inserting "as you do" makes this a personal comment about another. Please avoid making a personal attack.

Please review the Rules.

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JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:51 am

[Replying to post 113 by tam]

I'm sorry I directed my comment at you personally, of course I shouldn't have said "as you do" that violates the rules here. I should have kept it general. I'll rephrase:

Those that ignore 1 Corinthians 7:2 and use Gods grace an excuse to deliberately defile their flesh with toxins for pleasure do of course have a form of worship even if it shows a disregard for the temple for God that is our bodies. Jehovahs Witnesses one the other hand believe smoking "defiles the flesh" something the bible commands us not to do.

1 CORINTHIANS 7:1

"Therefore, since we have these promises, beloved ones, let us cleanse ourselves of every defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in God's fear."

One can but wonder how many lives could have been saved from lung cancer and other ailments if members of Christendom had simply applied this bible principle that reflects what we see (I recognise you may disagree) as godly wisdom.

Peace to you Tam,

JW

tam · Post by **tam** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:29 pm

Thank you for your wish of peace, and peace also to you,

[Replying to post 117 by JehovahsWitness]

No need to rephrase for my sake. My response remains in my previous post.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:38 pm

Overcomer wrote:This indicates that they believe one has to be a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses (which they regard as God's only true organization on earth) to be saved.

Well I'm one of Jehovahs Witnesses so I think its fair to say I'm in a better position to say what we, Jehovahs Witnesses believe than you are. We believe that everyone, whether inside or outside will be judged by Jesus when he returns; being part of Gods organisation is no guarantee if survival but it is where he wants his people to be. Just as being outside is no guarantee of death.

It has occurred to me that people have a hard time with the concept of taking the essential steps to for survival (following instructions) but still being subject to final judgement.

To Illustrate: A fireman points people towards the fire exit of a burning building. He tels them "Go straight ahead take the first corridor on your left and only when you are outside (ONLY THEN) will you be safe (saved) - compare Rev 18:4; 1Pet 1:21. All that is true, but the story doesnt end there.

Now imagine God arrives he has three sets of people those outside (that followed instructions), those still trapped inside that (never heard the instructions ) and those that thought the fireman was not a real fireman or didnt take his warnings seriously. Obviously he is pleased with those that obeyed instructions, they didnt get burnt, they got cleaned up and they are already where he wants them to be but he will still have to judge their hearts. But for them, given their actions, things look good (Mat 25).

Those that never hear or didnt take the warnings might be all burnt up, dirty with soot and somewhat traumatized, they too will be judged. For those that ignored the warnings obviously things dont look good but it not a done deal, the jugement is seperate and apart from their disobedience. God still has to judge the hearts., so he wont just say "Well you didnt listen so I'm going to kill you". Some will be waved through some will not.

Does that help to understand how we see things? We got out, we're helping others get out, but that doesn't mean where you are in the end guarantees survival (or death).

JW

Checkpoint · Post by **Checkpoint** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:58 pm

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Overcomer wrote:This indicates that they believe one has to be a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses (which they regard as God's only true organization on earth) to be saved.
Well I'm one of Jehovahs Witnesses so I think its fair to say I'm in a better position to say what we, Jehovahs Witnesses believe than you are. We believe that everyone, whether inside or outside will be judged by Jesus when he returns; being part of Gods organisation is no guarantee if survival. Just as being outside is no guarantee of death.

Christians are however as I'm sure you know, commmanded to preach and teacn and baptise new disciples. This is because we believe that inside the Christian congregation is the best and safest place to be spiritually.

It has occurred to me that people have a hard time with the concept of taking the essential steps to for survival (following jnstructions) but still being subject to final judgement.

To Illustrate: If a fireman for points towards the fire exit of a burning building is he condemning everyone else to death. Is he judgjng them? If he says "Go straight ahead take the firsst corridormon your left and only when you are outside will you be safe (saved). We are not the fire God is and He will destroy who he wants. This doesnt mean we shouldnt obey Christ and direct people to the safety and security of Gods organisation.
JW

Safety and security do not derive from any organisation, whatever it is and whatever it is called.

Safety and security come from the one true God who keeps His promises, and from His Son, in whom are all those promises that we say yes and amen to.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:03 pm

[Replying to post 120 by Checkpoint]

Yes I edited my illustration and added a conclusion. Tell me what you think.

JW

Checkpoint · Post by **Checkpoint** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:39 pm

JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 120 by Checkpoint]

Yes I edited my illustration and added a conclusion. Tell me what you think.

JW

Sorry, I am not yet able to isolate what you are now re ferring to.

Quote the related text and highlight part in some way, as you see fit.

I will then, hopefully, be able to tell you what I think.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:59 am

[Replying to post 122 by Checkpoint]

I reworked the post. If you re-read the entire post you can tell me if you think its understandable.

LINK here
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 75#1004075

JW