The Golden Rule's problems

[Willum]

The Golden Rule, has its first known origins with the Goddess Ma'at and a story about unlawful claiming of property.
It was either taken from there, or rediscovered by Thales of Greece in about 500 BCE.

It is recapped in the Bible in Matthew 7:12,

Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you: Do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets

Or in the OT, Leviticus 19:18

You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.

It sounds great on the surface, but is it the ultimate slippery slope for morality?

The key to recognize the problem is that we all think we are good.
The serial killers of the worlds, the rapist, the you name its of villainy are aware of and can probably justify their actions with the Golden Rule.

Premise of the topic: The Golden Rule sets every single individual as a standard for morality, and appeals to vanity to delude us into its being correct.
It seems like a recipe for disaster if you ask me.

Bad people will do bad things, because their personal version of the rule, allows it. They would say to themselves, "If I were this given person [whom I am doing bad things to], I would expect this kind of treatment from me."

So the topic of debate is obvious, is the Golden Rule the metric for behavior that it is employed as?

[1213]

...So the topic of debate is obvious, is the Golden Rule the metric for behavior that it is employed as?

It is good for those who are not corrupted. For corrupted people, no amount of laws would be enough, because there is always loopholes, thus the need for vast number of lawyers to find a way to legitimize wrong actions.

“The more corrupt the republic, the more numerous the laws.�
- Publius Tacitus

[Willum]

[Replying to post 2 by 1213]

Itis interesting how often women seem to like rapists. 1213

This is a quote from yourself, no?
What you have said in reply to my first post seems to exemplify your own quote. As I recall, you defended Deuteronomy’s endorsement of rape, demean women’s being raped, (because they like it!?!?), and state the Golden Rule doesn’t work for corrupt people.

I was amazed you didn’t get an instant ban for your statement above, but it is in line with the Bible, and so is rather a tipping point for the religion and the site: To recognize Deuteronomy was evil is to state the Bible is evil, and one bite can destroy all debate.

In any event, your response and your quote state in perfect terms the correctness of the OP premise.

People who claim to follow the Golden Rule, can also say Deuteronomy is good, and women like to be raped, seeing no conflict.
The point of the OP was that is the case... the Golden Rule is the ultimate slippery slope, and no one even knows they are sliding.

[Jagella]

So the topic of debate is obvious, is the Golden Rule the metric for behavior that it is employed as?

Actually, the Golden Rule is not employed a whole lot although whenever I feel slighted I often think How would you like it if you were treated that way?

Anyway, I've long recognized how the Golden Rule is tarnished. Assuming that what I want done to me is what others want done to them has implications that can be disastrous. For example, if I want a pretty woman to kiss me, then she might object to my kissing her!

As a result of these problems with the Golden Rule, I've come up with "Jagella's Platinum Rule":

Do unto others what you know they want done to them if it's reasonably possible, safe, and otherwise moral.

[Zzyzx]

.
How well does the 'Golden Rule' (Ethic of Reciprocity) work if said to a masochist who wants to be degraded and beaten?

[Willum]

[Replying to post 5 by Zzyzx]

Who are you asking?
Me?
I am the one pointing out issues with it...
The problem isn't just masochists, it everyone, me, you, everyone has a different tolerance and desire for how they wish to be treated.

Everyone can justify how poorly they treat everyone under every circumstance and end up with a "good," and by good I mean internally self consistent rational.

Look at 1213 justifying rape, or ttruescott stating that misdeeds are the victim's fault...
Does that mean if he were perpetrating something someone did not like, it would be their fault? He, and we (everyone) would most likely justify it that way.

Like I say, it is the the Golden Rule is the ultimate slippery slope. Most folks not even acknowledging they are treating people badly.

This is Jesus and God's rule - essentially justifying any evil you do, because of your (pl) perspective.

[1213]

[Replying to post 2 by 1213]

Itis interesting how often women seem to like rapists. 1213

This is a quote from yourself, no?
What you have said in reply to my first post seems to exemplify your own quote.

Please notice, I don’t claim women like rapists. But in some cases it seems to be so. For example I have read a study that tells it is very common fantasy of women, which is not really same as they would really want it, also that how rapists are treated and not easily judged gives me the notion that maybe for some it is really ok.

Anyway, this doesn’t mean I think rape is acceptable.

As I recall, you defended Deuteronomy’s endorsement of rape, demean women’s being raped, (because they like it!?!?), and state the Golden Rule doesn’t work for corrupt people.

I think it would be irrational to say Bible endorses rape, when it gives judgment for that. Rape is wrong in the Bible and I also think it is wrong. If person loves other, he doesn’t rape.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 7 by 1213]

You find Deuteronomy acceptable.
You did indeed state in some cases women like rapists, in defense of your deity.

But let’s stay close to the topic. The Golden Rule being a slippery slope for morality.

I assume you follow the Golden Rule?
Let’s look at your progress.

You have gone from defending Deuteronomy by saying women like rape. Defending Deuteronomy by saying the case for the punishment it proscribes doesn’t happen very often, then saying it apples to widows and unmarried women, then finally saying you don’t believe women liked to be raped, but fantasize about it.
You realize you have given every possible answer to that question, at least on the amoral side?

Let’s now put this in context of the Golden Rule...
I think this will provide a perfect example of what evil the Golden Rule perpetrates.

[bluegreenearth]

[Replying to post 2 by 1213]

Itis interesting how often women seem to like rapists. 1213

This is a quote from yourself, no?
What you have said in reply to my first post seems to exemplify your own quote.

Please notice, I don’t claim women like rapists. But in some cases it seems to be so. For example I have read a study that tells it is very common fantasy of women, which is not really same as they would really want it, also that how rapists are treated and not easily judged gives me the notion that maybe for some it is really ok.

Anyway, this doesn’t mean I think rape is acceptable.

As I recall, you defended Deuteronomy’s endorsement of rape, demean women’s being raped, (because they like it!?!?), and state the Golden Rule doesn’t work for corrupt people.

I think it would be irrational to say Bible endorses rape, when it gives judgment for that. Rape is wrong in the Bible and I also think it is wrong. If person loves other, he doesn’t rape.

Isaiah 13:15-16
15 Whoever is captured will be thrust through; all who are caught will fall by the sword.
16 Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives violated.

Zechariah 14:2
2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city.

[OnceConvinced]

[Replying to post 2 by 1213]

Itis interesting how often women seem to like rapists. 1213

This is a quote from yourself, no?
What you have said in reply to my first post seems to exemplify your own quote. As I recall, you defended Deuteronomy’s endorsement of rape, demean women’s being raped, (because they like it!?!?), and state the Golden Rule doesn’t work for corrupt people.

I was amazed you didn’t get an instant ban for your statement above, but it is in line with the Bible, and so is rather a tipping point for the religion and the site: To recognize Deuteronomy was evil is to state the Bible is evil, and one bite can destroy all debate.

In any event, your response and your quote state in perfect terms the correctness of the OP premise.

People who claim to follow the Golden Rule, can also say Deuteronomy is good, and women like to be raped, seeing no conflict.
The point of the OP was that is the case... the Golden Rule is the ultimate slippery slope, and no one even knows they are sliding.

Following on from this, I once wrote a humerous story and it was while I was a born again Christian, where a city was being governed and one of the people suggested that if a crime was committed that the perpetrator should be punished with the same thing that they did.

So if they stole money, money should be taken from them. If they murdered, then they should have their life ended too. If they assaulted someone, then they should be assaulted. So in other words the rule was "Give them a dose of their own medicine."

So this rule was inforced. The only problem was that incidents of rape sky rocketed.

This was tongue n cheek, but I personally think that if we were to apply the golden rule in this case, then a lot more people would be going out raping. I'm sure most men would love the idea of beautiful women forcing themselves on them, so if the golden rule was followed, why would they not go out and force themselves on beautiful women?

I agree the golden rule is not a good thing even when it comes to those so-called people who are not corrupted. But then who determines who is corrupted or not? Is it considered corrupt to believe that women seem to like rapists? Imagine if we all started to adopt that belief?