How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

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How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

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Post by otseng »

From the On the Bible being inerrant thread:
nobspeople wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:42 amHow can you trust something that's written about god that contradictory, contains errors and just plain wrong at times? Is there a logical way to do so, or do you just want it to be god's word so much that you overlook these things like happens so often through the history of christianity?
otseng wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:08 am The Bible can still be God's word, inspired, authoritative, and trustworthy without the need to believe in inerrancy.
For debate:
How can the Bible be considered authoritative and inspired without the need to believe in the doctrine of inerrancy?

While debating, do not simply state verses to say the Bible is inspired or trustworthy.

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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

Post #821

Post by TRANSPONDER »

And a more p. s I did get a glimpse of this painted fellow in his colourful coat, but I'd like a link or post, if possible as it now seems that were are looking at minoan -cretan wall decoration which would argue strongly that it is anything to do with Joseph or Israelites.

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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

Post #822

Post by otseng »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:56 am When viewed through the Biblical lens indeed. But it means nothing that I don't buy this wall painting and a cylinder - seal as showing that the Hyksos were Israelites, I have to give good reasons to doubt.

Firstly, the cylinder -seal. You would have to do more than make or recycle a claim that it represents the 12 tribes of israel. We have a man, a boat, a lion as a repeated pattern. How do you make that the 12 tribes?
According to author, Michael Bar-Ron, the reason it is supportive of the 12 tribes of Israel is the Biblical references the seal has. It also reflect the birth order of the sons of Israel: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, and Benjamin.

Image

In the 1 o'clock position is a bull/ox. Joseph is associated with a bull/ox in the Bible. Since Joseph is preeminent among the brothers, he is presented at the top.

Deut 33:13-17 (ESV)
13 And of Joseph he said, "Blessed by the LORD be his land, with the choicest gifts of heaven above, and of the deep that crouches beneath,
14 with the choicest fruits of the sun and the rich yield of the months,
15 with the finest produce of the ancient mountains and the abundance of the everlasting hills,
16 with the best gifts of the earth and its fullness and the favor of him who dwells in the bush. May these rest on the head of Joseph, on the pate of him who is prince among his brothers.
17 A firstborn bull- he has majesty, and his horns are the horns of a wild ox; with them he shall gore the peoples, all of them, to the ends of the earth; they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh."

Reuben is associated with unstable water.

Gen 49:3-4 (ESV)
3 Reuben, you are my firstborn, my might, and the firstfruits of my strength, preeminent in dignity and preeminent in power.
4 Unstable as water, you shall not have preeminence, because you went up to your father's bed; then you defiled it- he went up to my couch!

Even though Reuben was born first, he does not appear in the top of the seal, but beneath the bull.

Simeon and Levi are not looked upon favorably and are represented on the seal as a bird of prey.

Gen 49:5-7 (ESV)
5 Simeon and Levi are brothers; weapons of violence are their swords.
6 Let my soul come not into their council; O my glory, be not joined to their company. For in their anger they killed men, and in their willfulness they hamstrung oxen.
7 Cursed be their anger, for it is fierce, and their wrath, for it is cruel! I will divide them in Jacob and scatter them in Israel.

Judah is associated with a lion, located at the bottom right.

Gen 49:9 (ESV)
Judah is a lion's cub; from the prey, my son, you have gone up. He stooped down; he crouched as a lion and as a lioness; who dares rouse him?

Dan is associated with a serpent, which is at the 6 o'clock position.

Gen 49:17 (ESV)
Dan shall be a serpent in the way, a viper by the path, that bites the horse's heels so that his rider falls backward.

Naphtali is a doe, which is looking down underneath the curtain at the 9 o'clock position.

Gen 49:21 (ESV)
Naphtali is a doe let loose that bears beautiful fawns.

Bar-Ron believes Gad is represented by a mushroom, but I think it rather looks like a heel coming up from the curtain.

Gen 49:19 (ESV)
"Raiders shall raid Gad, but he shall raid at their heels.

Asher is depicted at the top left as an olive branch with 8 leaves (and being the 8th born son).

Gen 49:20 (ESV)
"Asher's food shall be rich, and he shall yield royal delicacies.

Issachar and Zebulun are associated with ships.

Gen 49:13 (ESV)
Zebulun shall dwell at the shore of the sea; he shall become a haven for ships, and his border shall be at Sidon.

Deut 33:19 (ESV)
And of Zebulun he said, "Rejoice, Zebulun, in your going out, and Issachar, in your tents.
19 They shall call peoples to their mountain; there they offer right sacrifices; for they draw from the abundance of the seas and the hidden treasures of the sand."

This only leaves Benjamin left. The author states the large central image could either be Benjamin or an anthropomorphic image of the God of Israel.

Deut 33:12 (ESV)
Of Benjamin he said, "The beloved of the LORD dwells in safety. The High God surrounds him all day long, and dwells between his shoulders."

I would tend to believe the central image is Benjamin since all the other brothers are depicted on the seal. Also, there has never been an artistic portrayal of the God of Israel anywhere.

Gen 49 does not portray Benjamin favorably.

Gen 49:27 (ESV)
"Benjamin is a ravenous wolf, in the morning devouring the prey and at evening dividing the spoil."

Since Benjamin is Joseph's favorite brother, he would not want to portray him in a negative light as a wolf, but does portray him as devouring the prey and dividing the spoil.

All the images are covered by a curtain, which I believe is symbolic of all being in the house of Israel.

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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

Post #823

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otseng wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:05 pm
TRANSPONDER wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:56 am When viewed through the Biblical lens indeed. But it means nothing that I don't buy this wall painting and a cylinder - seal as showing that the Hyksos were Israelites, I have to give good reasons to doubt.

Firstly, the cylinder -seal. You would have to do more than make or recycle a claim that it represents the 12 tribes of israel. We have a man, a boat, a lion as a repeated pattern. How do you make that the 12 tribes?
According to author, Michael Bar-Ron, the reason it is supportive of the 12 tribes of Israel is the Biblical references the seal has. It also reflect the birth order of the sons of Israel: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, and Benjamin.

Image

In the 1 o'clock position is a bull/ox. Joseph is associated with a bull/ox in the Bible. Since Joseph is preeminent among the brothers, he is presented at the top.

Deut 33:13-17 (ESV)
13 And of Joseph he said, "Blessed by the LORD be his land, with the choicest gifts of heaven above, and of the deep that crouches beneath,
14 with the choicest fruits of the sun and the rich yield of the months,
15 with the finest produce of the ancient mountains and the abundance of the everlasting hills,
16 with the best gifts of the earth and its fullness and the favor of him who dwells in the bush. May these rest on the head of Joseph, on the pate of him who is prince among his brothers.
17 A firstborn bull- he has majesty, and his horns are the horns of a wild ox; with them he shall gore the peoples, all of them, to the ends of the earth; they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh."

Reuben is associated with unstable water.

Gen 49:3-4 (ESV)
3 Reuben, you are my firstborn, my might, and the firstfruits of my strength, preeminent in dignity and preeminent in power.
4 Unstable as water, you shall not have preeminence, because you went up to your father's bed; then you defiled it- he went up to my couch!

Even though Reuben was born first, he does not appear in the top of the seal, but beneath the bull.

Simeon and Levi are not looked upon favorably and are represented on the seal as a bird of prey.

Gen 49:5-7 (ESV)
5 Simeon and Levi are brothers; weapons of violence are their swords.
6 Let my soul come not into their council; O my glory, be not joined to their company. For in their anger they killed men, and in their willfulness they hamstrung oxen.
7 Cursed be their anger, for it is fierce, and their wrath, for it is cruel! I will divide them in Jacob and scatter them in Israel.

Judah is associated with a lion, located at the bottom right.

Gen 49:9 (ESV)
Judah is a lion's cub; from the prey, my son, you have gone up. He stooped down; he crouched as a lion and as a lioness; who dares rouse him?

Dan is associated with a serpent, which is at the 6 o'clock position.

Gen 49:17 (ESV)
Dan shall be a serpent in the way, a viper by the path, that bites the horse's heels so that his rider falls backward.

Naphtali is a doe, which is looking down underneath the curtain at the 9 o'clock position.

Gen 49:21 (ESV)
Naphtali is a doe let loose that bears beautiful fawns.

Bar-Ron believes Gad is represented by a mushroom, but I think it rather looks like a heel coming up from the curtain.

Gen 49:19 (ESV)
"Raiders shall raid Gad, but he shall raid at their heels.

Asher is depicted at the top left as an olive branch with 8 leaves (and being the 8th born son).

Gen 49:20 (ESV)
"Asher's food shall be rich, and he shall yield royal delicacies.

Issachar and Zebulun are associated with ships.

Gen 49:13 (ESV)
Zebulun shall dwell at the shore of the sea; he shall become a haven for ships, and his border shall be at Sidon.

Deut 33:19 (ESV)
And of Zebulun he said, "Rejoice, Zebulun, in your going out, and Issachar, in your tents.
19 They shall call peoples to their mountain; there they offer right sacrifices; for they draw from the abundance of the seas and the hidden treasures of the sand."

This only leaves Benjamin left. The author states the large central image could either be Benjamin or an anthropomorphic image of the God of Israel.

Deut 33:12 (ESV)
Of Benjamin he said, "The beloved of the LORD dwells in safety. The High God surrounds him all day long, and dwells between his shoulders."

I would tend to believe the central image is Benjamin since all the other brothers are depicted on the seal. Also, there has never been an artistic portrayal of the God of Israel anywhere.

Gen 49 does not portray Benjamin favorably.

Gen 49:27 (ESV)
"Benjamin is a ravenous wolf, in the morning devouring the prey and at evening dividing the spoil."

Since Benjamin is Joseph's favorite brother, he would not want to portray him in a negative light as a wolf, but does portray him as devouring the prey and dividing the spoil.

All the images are covered by a curtain, which I believe is symbolic of all being in the house of Israel.
What we see on that cylinder -seal is a boat, a snake , a lion, a bull and a ruler wielding a mace,which is a standard representation of an Egyptian ruler. battling enemies That's all we have as the pattern repeats. Now I'm sure that you could fish out correspondences of anything there from the OT even if you couldn't relate it to Joseph, let alone references to 12 tribes, but the context of that palace with Minoan wall - art and burials with servants and donkeys, we seem to be looking at pagan Canaanites with no resemblance to the Israelites, especially being the rulers, not the slaves. Add to that the evidence that the Hyksos were ejected before the Exodus was supposed to have happened and I don't think that cylinder seal can be more than wishfully related to enslaved Israelites under a Pharaoh.

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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

Post #824

Post by otseng »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 11:04 pmWhat we see on that cylinder -seal is a boat, a snake , a lion, a bull and a ruler wielding a mace,which is a standard representation of an Egyptian ruler. battling enemies That's all we have as the pattern repeats.
It's more than that. It's references that matches the Bible, in particular the blessings of Israel to his sons in Gen 49 and it also fits the pattern of the birth order of sons. So, it cannot be simply explained away as a collection of "common" symbols.
we seem to be looking at pagan Canaanites with no resemblance to the Israelites
This is all pre-Mosaic times, so their theology was rudimentary. And as I argued for earlier, without written scriptures, there is no objective standard to base a religion on. But more importantly, the Israelites were a subset of the Hyksos, and the rest had worshiped the Canaanite gods, in particular Baal.
Add to that the evidence that the Hyksos were ejected before the Exodus was supposed to have happened and I
What evidence do you have that the Hyksos were ejected from Egypt?

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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

Post #825

Post by TRANSPONDER »

otseng wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 11:56 pm
TRANSPONDER wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 11:04 pmWhat we see on that cylinder -seal is a boat, a snake , a lion, a bull and a ruler wielding a mace,which is a standard representation of an Egyptian ruler. battling enemies That's all we have as the pattern repeats.
It's more than that. It's references that matches the Bible, in particular the blessings of Israel to his sons in Gen 49 and it also fits the pattern of the birth order of sons. So, it cannot be simply explained away as a collection of "common" symbols.
we seem to be looking at pagan Canaanites with no resemblance to the Israelites
This is all pre-Mosaic times, so their theology was rudimentary. And as I argued for earlier, without written scriptures, there is no objective standard to base a religion on. But more importantly, the Israelites were a subset of the Hyksos, and the rest had worshiped the Canaanite gods, in particular Baal.
Add to that the evidence that the Hyksos were ejected before the Exodus was supposed to have happened and I
What evidence do you have that the Hyksos were ejected from Egypt?
We shall have to agree to differ on that. The human figure is a familiar 'Pharaoh smiting his enemies'representation. The 'hillocks' beneath his feet could well be the trampling of enemies. The bull represents power, the lion royalty and the ship, trade and prosperity perhaps and maybe the snake is wisdom. I'm not sure about the bird of prey. And I'm less convinced by the decoration beneath the bull as representing anything much. What do the ship and snake mean in the Bible? I don't know about anyone else but I think you are striving to relate a cylinder seal of the Canaanites to a Bible written a lot later.

Isn't your theory that the Israelites are part of the Canaanites (who I reiterate were rulers in the delta, not slaves), and the Hyksos were not Bible -type Israelites per se. If so there is no reason why that cylinder - seal should be anything to do with Israelites as represented in the Bible. And you contradict yourself by explaining away the religious practices of the Hyksos as Israelites in a theologically primitive stage. If their culture was so unlike the Hebrews as depicted in the Bible, why would we see the Hyksos as Hebrews at all?

I can get the idea that they were virtually pagans but nevertheless knowingly Hebrew and didn't really get their religion straight until Moses imposed it. But it also works if there is no large group of Hebrews amongst the Hyksos at all, because I don't know why we should assume that they remained as a people in Egypt after the Hyksos had been kicked out. In addition to which the archaeology indicates that they didn't appear in Canaan until the 11th c BC. And bear in mind that you still have the problem that the Pharaoh didn't perish in the Red Sea and there was no Philistia to avoid and Egypt controlled the Sinai and all Canaan, too. I recall that the Amarna letters at a later date than Amenhotep II and Tuthmosis II were letters from Canaanite city states which were protectorates of Egypt. The bronze age collapse hasn't happened yet. Israel, Ammon, Moab and Edom haven't occupied the Canaan plains yet. The Exodus is, on all evidence, anachronistic and your evidence is contradictory and not convincingly indicating anything recognisably Hebrew.

It's the old story - there is no reason to try to select and wangle the data to try to make it support the Bible, unless one wants the Bible to be true in the first place.

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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

Post #826

Post by TRANSPONDER »

otseng wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 11:56 pm
TRANSPONDER wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 11:04 pmWhat we see on that cylinder -seal is a boat, a snake , a lion, a bull and a ruler wielding a mace,which is a standard representation of an Egyptian ....
Add to that the evidence that the Hyksos were ejected before the Exodus was supposed to have happened and I
What evidence do you have that the Hyksos were ejected from Egypt?

Well, that's a good question. The traditional view is that the Pharonic records of the time claim to have taken Avaris and ended the Hyksos rule and Manetho (used by Josephus) is the basis forthinking that Canaanites were ejected.However, Wiki..

"Manetho, as recorded in Josephus, states that the Hyksos were allowed to leave after concluding a treaty:[103]

Thoumosis ... invested the walls [of Avaris] with an army of 480,000 men, and endeavoured to reduce [the Hyksos] to submission by siege. Despairing of achieving his object, he concluded a treaty, under which [the Hyksos] were all to evacuate Egypt and go whither they would unmolested. Upon these terms no fewer than two hundred and forty thousand, entire households with their possessions, left Egypt and traversed the desert to Syria. (Contra Apion I.88-89)[104]

Although Manetho indicates that the Hyksos population was expelled to the Levant, there is no archaeological evidence for this, and Manfred Bietak argues on the basis of archaeological finds throughout Egypt that it is likely that numerous Asiatics were resettled in other locations in Egypt as artisans and craftsmen.[105] Many may have remained at Avaris, as pottery and scarabs with typical "Hyksos" forms continued to be produced uninterrupted throughout the Eastern Delta.[68] Canaanite cults also continued to be worshiped at Avaris.[10
6]"

So, while the end of Hyksos rule can hardly be doubted as the New kingdom Pharaohs ruled thereafter, you could still argue that a large number of Semites still remained there carrying on their lives. You may easily fit the decline into slavery under later rulers into the period to the later New kingdom rulers. But where do you have any references to Hebrews as a particular group, let alone slaves in Egypt? The evidence is for a paid and valued workforce. The evidence still looks like Pagan Canaanites and not Hebrews in any recognisable form, apart from that cylinder seal, your interpretation of which I dispute. And the other points indicating the Exodus - story to be anachronistic remain.

And while you are asking me for my evidence, can you show a link to a picture of this 'coat of many colours'? I'm not sure whether it's a figure of a scampering scallywag in red and yellow or a striped tunic in the Minoan fragments from the palace. I have seen both mentioned.

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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

Post #827

Post by otseng »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 8:32 amI don't know about anyone else but I think you are striving to relate a cylinder seal of the Canaanites to a Bible written a lot later.
It might have been written later, but since it's about Jacob blessing his sons, it would've been contemporaneous.
Isn't your theory that the Israelites are part of the Canaanites (who I reiterate were rulers in the delta, not slaves), and the Hyksos were not Bible -type Israelites per se.
The 12 tribes of Israel were a part of the Canaanites. Canaanites settled in Goshen and they were not slaves at this point in Egypt history, which is confirmed by the Biblical account.
If their culture was so unlike the Hebrews as depicted in the Bible, why would we see the Hyksos as Hebrews at all?
The Hyksos were not all Hebrews. The Israelites were Hebrews. But the Hyksos were Canaanites, which a subset would be Hebrews/Israelites.
But it also works if there is no large group of Hebrews amongst the Hyksos at all, because I don't know why we should assume that they remained as a people in Egypt after the Hyksos had been kicked out.
You haven't yet established the Hyksos were kicked out.
In addition to which the archaeology indicates that they didn't appear in Canaan until the 11th c BC.
Who wasn't in Canaan? The Israelites?
And bear in mind that you still have the problem that the Pharaoh didn't perish in the Red Sea and there was no Philistia to avoid and Egypt controlled the Sinai and all Canaan, too.
We can get to those later when discussing leaving Egypt.
TRANSPONDER wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 8:59 am Although Manetho indicates that the Hyksos population was expelled to the Levant, there is no archaeological evidence for this, and Manfred Bietak argues on the basis of archaeological finds throughout Egypt that it is likely that numerous Asiatics were resettled in other locations in Egypt as artisans and craftsmen.[105] Many may have remained at Avaris, as pottery and scarabs with typical "Hyksos" forms continued to be produced uninterrupted throughout the Eastern Delta.[68] Canaanite cults also continued to be worshiped at Avaris.[10[/i]6]"
As discussed, what Manetho said about the Hyksos has largely been fabricated, so his testimony is not really reliable regarding the Hyksos.

Yes, the Hyksos resettled into other regions in Egypt, but what caused this? They might've done work of artisans and craftsmen, but more likely as slaves.
So, while the end of Hyksos rule can hardly be doubted as the New kingdom Pharaohs ruled thereafter, you could still argue that a large number of Semites still remained there carrying on their lives. You may easily fit the decline into slavery under later rulers into the period to the later New kingdom rulers.
Yes, this is what I believe and I'll present evidence for this later.
But where do you have any references to Hebrews as a particular group, let alone slaves in Egypt? The evidence is for a paid and valued workforce.
Later I'll present evidence the Hyksos became slaves.
And while you are asking me for my evidence, can you show a link to a picture of this 'coat of many colours'? I'm not sure whether it's a figure of a scampering scallywag in red and yellow or a striped tunic in the Minoan fragments from the palace. I have seen both mentioned.
Image
https://madainproject.com/avaris_statue

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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

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Post by TRANSPONDER »

There is evidence that the Biblical account was later than the events described and some indications that it was fabricated to establish an origin for a tribe that was concerned about its' individuality.

I suppose I'm going with the mainstream view of Pharonic history, and even if the Canaanites largely remained in the Delta, the evidence of Ahmose records as well as the Egyptian king list - which accepted the existence of the Hyksos dynasty, is that Hyksos rule came to an end.

It is rather curious isn't it that there is a record of Ahmose pushing the Canaanites out of Egypt but no record of Israelite slaves leaving under Moses. I know apologists can explain that away but the fact remains, there is no evidence for an Exodus, but there is for ejecting the Hyksos. And again the bulrushes borrowing from Babylon suggests a Biblical borrowing from a later date for the story, which means it isn't a bit later but a lot later. The anachronistic to the Philistines supporting that reading.

I see no decent evidence for the Hyksos including any Hebrews. Your '12 tribes' references turns out to be nothing but associating five symbols with various bits of the Jacob story and the lion just a general association with Judah. I repeat that the royal figure with the mace is a known image of an Egyptian ruler. Where in the OT or anywhere else is there a claim that Israelites ruled in Egypt? Or if it is evidence of Hyksos rule in the Delta, where is the evidence that this was Hebrew rulership as you seem to be claiming for that cylinder - seal? Really, you are trying to make that bar and swirl decoration under the bull one of the tribes? Also those two hillocks under the ruler's feet are another couple of tribes (I suspect they may represent piles of enemy heads)? The effort to relate that object to Hebrews is strained and making a Hebrew a warlike ruler doesn't fit the history.

I see the many coloured coat is related to that statue with the mushroom hat. I mentioned a figure (in red and yellow) on wall plaster. Also a claim for a striped garment from the Minoan fresco from the palace. And now it's colours on the garment of this statue.

"you can still see evidence that this ruler was wearing a striped garment (inspect), made up of at least three colors: black, red and white." says the site. Black, red and white .'At least' (1). That's wishfully thinking that there are more colours without evidence for it. And again the size indicates a ruler of the Hyksos, not the cup-bearer to Pharoah, even a Hyksos pharaoh.
,
It's the old business of trying to make selected and interpreted evidence fit a Faith claim. There just isn't enough to make this fit the Exodus or Genesis narrative. I will look further into the actual evidence of the Hyksos being pushed out of the delta, but clearly there rule did end. And if you argue away a Hyksos ejection,then you have nothing historical to support the Biblical narrative.

I'll also check up about the suggestion that this statue is 12th dynasty. That seems too early.

(1) I hate to say it, but the US spelling in favour of a link to the Bible puts on one red flag at least. ;)

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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

Post #829

Post by TRANSPONDER »

Yeah Biblical archaeology. I know,Bias doesn't matter - evidence does. But I already showed how evidence is interpreted oreven added to (the garment appears to be all red with a couple of blue bands in the hem Hardly 'many colors' - other than in faith -based wishful thinking.

I already explained that the archaeological view is that Israel did not appear until after the devastation of the sea peoples when they appeared along with Moab, Edom, Ammon and Assyria. I already mentioned the Armarna letters post dating either Amenhotep II or Tuthmosis III that shows a Canaan of city states and not a mention if Israel the Ramessid kings.

Ok, I can already see the timeline - in fact I may do it myself, wearing my Theist hat. So I await your evidence for the enslavement of Hebrews specifically in Egypt.

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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

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Post by otseng »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:20 am There is evidence that the Biblical account was later than the events described and some indications that it was fabricated to establish an origin for a tribe that was concerned about its' individuality.
Please present that evidence.
I suppose I'm going with the mainstream view of Pharonic history, and even if the Canaanites largely remained in the Delta, the evidence of Ahmose records as well as the Egyptian king list - which accepted the existence of the Hyksos dynasty, is that Hyksos rule came to an end.
Yes, of course the Hyksos rule came to an end. I'll get to that later and how it also corresponds to the Bible.
It is rather curious isn't it that there is a record of Ahmose pushing the Canaanites out of Egypt but no record of Israelite slaves leaving under Moses.
As we have seen, the Egyptians do not record anything that will embarrass them. So, it is to be expected of them not having any record of the Exodus.
but there is for ejecting the Hyksos.
There is actually no evidence the Hyksos were ejected out of Egypt. Rather, it's likely just more Egyptian propaganda.

"A soldier under the command of Ahmose I, Amenhotep I, and Thutmose I recorded the destruction of the Hyksos capital and ejection of its people in the Autobiography of Ahmose, son of Ibana. But there is no solid evidence to support this kind of damage. There is also evidence to suggest that the Hyksos may not have been unceremoniously tossed out of Egypt en masse; pottery uncovered at Avaris suggests that some may have stayed behind and lived there into the New Kingdom."
https://www.thecollector.com/second-int ... -of-egypt/
And again the bulrushes borrowing from Babylon suggests a Biblical borrowing from a later date for the story, which means it isn't a bit later but a lot later.
How does a bulrush demonstrate a Babylonian origin?
I see no decent evidence for the Hyksos including any Hebrews. Your '12 tribes' references turns out to be nothing but associating five symbols with various bits of the Jacob story and the lion just a general association with Judah.
The palace in Tell El-Dab'a is pretty convincing to me and aligns with the Biblical account. More evidence will be presented later of the existence of the Hebrews in Egypt.
Where in the OT or anywhere else is there a claim that Israelites ruled in Egypt?
Exod 1:7-9 (KJV)
7And the children of Israel were fruitful, and increased abundantly, and multiplied, and waxed exceeding mighty; and the land was filled with them.
8 Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.
9 And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children of Israel [are] more and mightier than we.
Also those two hillocks under the ruler's feet are another couple of tribes (I suspect they may represent piles of enemy heads)? The effort to relate that object to Hebrews is strained and making a Hebrew a warlike ruler doesn't fit the history.
The author, Bar-Ron, posits either they are hills or shoulders. I don't think it's either. I think it better represents the spoils of war as mentioned in Gen 49:27

Gen 49:27 "Benjamin is a ravenous wolf, in the morning devouring the prey and at evening dividing the spoil."
I see the many coloured coat is related to that statue with the mushroom hat.
It was more a mushroom hairstyle, rather than a hat.

"However, the mushroom-like hair style and the fringed dress are plainly Levantine in style."
https://www.thecollector.com/second-int ... -of-egypt/
I mentioned a figure (in red and yellow) on wall plaster. Also a claim for a striped garment from the Minoan fresco from the palace. And now it's colours on the garment of this statue.
Most likely the Minoan fresco was created during the 18th Dynasty.

"At Avaris, Ahmose constructed a large fortified palace,
mostly built from recycled materials from the Hyksos citadel
he and his soldiers had conquered. A further piece of
intriguing evidence for the international outlook of the
city and the Egyptian state at the time, the walls of the
palace were decorated in part with a number of beautiful
—although very poorly preserved—frescoes which appear
Minoan in origin, possibly suggesting the presence of Cretan
artisans working for the Egyptian court at the time."
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... a3ZBxoyp-Q
"you can still see evidence that this ruler was wearing a striped garment (inspect), made up of at least three colors: black, red and white." says the site. Black, red and white .'At least' (1). That's wishfully thinking that there are more colours without evidence for it.
Even if it's only 3 colors, it's still multi-colored, so not sure how many colors you require for something to be multi-colored.

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