Are members of the Trinity really "co-equal"?

[polonius]

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 1 by polonius]

Good observation.

Why the early "fathers" of the church had such a difficult time understanding what was written in the Scriptures is a conundrum. They either genuinely didn't understand, which would make us pause to wonder why (if they truly were God's church), or they deliberately twisted the Scriptures to suit their own agenda.

The Bible, for one thing, does not indicate or support any Trinity. And it certainly doesn't support a Father-Son relationship that has them being equal. The Father is ALWAYS superior to the Son (and everybody else). If Jehovah's name was left in the Scriptures where it belongs (over 7,000 times), rather than being eliminated from the Scriptures and replaced with "LORD," it would be quite clear who was superior to all other persons and made-up gods of the universe. It is JEHOVAH and no other, not even His Son.

There are many versions of the Bible that put God's name BACK where it belongs and where it originated in the earliest Scriptures. The KJV puts it back in four places, which are:

Isaiah 26:4: "Trust ye in the Lord forever: for in the Lord JEHOVAH is everlasting strength."

Isaiah 12:2: "Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the Lord JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation."

Psalm 83:18: "That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the Most High over all the earth."

Exodus 6:3: "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty; but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them."

Bibles like Young's Literal Translation have Jehovah's name throughout, the whole 7,000 times. So it's easy to see who is running the universe and is superior to all, when God's name is left intact.

To further emphasize my point that Jehovah, THE FATHER, is unequaled, not even by His Son, we can take a glance at two verses from the Hebrew Scriptures that show clearly that Jehovah and Jesus are two different persons. I'll quote from Young's Literal Translation:

"The affirmation of Jehovah to my Lord: Sit at my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool. The rod of thy strength doth Jehovah send from Zion, rule in the midst of thine enemies." (Psalm 110: 1,2)

"The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah is on me, because Jehovah did anoint me to proclaim tidings to the humble, He sent me to bind the broken of heart...[etc.]" (Isaiah 61: 1,2) At Luke 4:16-21 Jesus applied this Scripture to himself. It is crystal clear that God and Jesus are two distinct individuals.


Now, besides all this from the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament), there are the many attestations of Jesus himself to the superiority of his Father, Jehovah. John 17:3 makes it clear that the Father alone is God. John 20:17 shows that Jesus HAS A GOD that he worships---the Father. To any who say well that was when he was Earth....Revelation 3:12 is words right out of Jesus' mouth to John, in reference to the Father (Jehovah) as "MY GOD" four times.

So, in conclusion, it seems quite clear that the Father and the Son are not "co-equal."

[Wootah]

[Replying to polonius]

If two things are co-equal are they the same?

My wife and I are co-equal. She and I are not the same.

Next.

[tigger2]

[Replying to post 3 by Wootah]

My wife and I are co-equal. She and I are not the same.

So you both have existed for the exact same span of time; you both have exactly the same wisdom/knowledge; you both have exactly the same authority and strength; and you both are always unified in thought and will?

Athanasian Creed:

"And in this Trinity none is afore, or after other, none is greater or less than others; but the whole three persons are co- eternal together; and co-equal. So that in all things as is aforesaid: the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.

"HE THEREFORE THAT WILL BE SAVED MUST THUS THINK OF THE TRINITY."

[brianbbs67]

Tiger and Onewithin. Tigger, that's just silly to affirm it that way. One, you must know by now that Jehovah is a 12th century Catholic invention. Why persist?

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 4 by tigger2]

The word exists right? Are you arguing the word is nonsense?

[tigger2]

Tiger and Onewithin. Tigger, that's just silly to affirm it that way. One, you must know by now that Jehovah is a 12th century Catholic invention. Why persist?

You must know by now that 'LORD' used nearly 7000 times in most Bibles is a clear mistranslation of God's personal name.

Nearly all personal names as transliterated in nearly all English Bibles are mistransliterated. Even the name of Jesus is a mistransliteration of Iesous (Greek pronounced 'Yay-soos') or Yeshuah/Yehoshuah (Hebrew).

If trinitarians can blithely accept and use "Jesus" as the name of their God, why the big fuss about using the equally traditional "Jehovah" (as found in Ps 83:18 even in the KJV)??

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 2 by onewithhim]

Athanasian Creed:

"And in this Trinity none is afore, or after other, none is greater or less than others; but the whole three persons are co- eternal together; and co-equal.

Exactly, two different individuals cannot both be "The Most High". Being the superlative, the description excludes all others. The Word (The Son) can never at any time be the Most High along with Jehovah, the Father.


Logic,


JW



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[onewithhim]

Tiger and Onewithin. Tigger, that's just silly to affirm it that way. One, you must know by now that Jehovah is a 12th century Catholic invention. Why persist?

I am surprised that you said this, brianbs. I really think you are joking.

Jehovah's name has been in the Scriptures for 3,000 years. Men have taken it OUT of the Scriptures since the second century A.D., but it still can be seen in Hebrew in the O.T. if one chooses to look at the original writings (see a copy of the Jewish Publication Society's Bible).The Catholics didn't have anything to do with the King James Bible (1611 A.D.), the translators of which rendered the name of God from the Tetragrammaton to "Jehovah." (Actually they said "Iehovah," just as they wrote "Iesus"---both with an "I", and later the copyists used the "J.")

I am curious as to how you could say such a thing. I thought you respected the Bible.

[brianbbs67]

Tiger and Onewithin. Tigger, that's just silly to affirm it that way. One, you must know by now that Jehovah is a 12th century Catholic invention. Why persist?

I am surprised that you said this, brianbs. I really think you are joking.

Jehovah's name has been in the Scriptures for 3,000 years. Men have taken it OUT of the Scriptures since the second century A.D., but it still can be seen in Hebrew in the O.T. if one chooses to look at the original writings (see a copy of the Jewish Publication Society's Bible).The Catholics didn't have anything to do with the King James Bible (1611 A.D.), the translators of which rendered the name of God from the Tetragrammaton to "Jehovah." (Actually they said "Iehovah," just as they wrote "Iesus"---both with an "I", and later the copyists used the "J.")

I am curious as to how you could say such a thing. I thought you respected the Bible.

I do respect the bible. The tetragrammaton is YHVH. Yod Hay Vod Hay. Ancient Hebrew written language had no vowels. The Jots and tittles came later. Yes, the YHVH was removed. Jehovah was not because it never was there. Here is its history: (Even the Catholics are right sometimes)

https://www.catholic.com/qa/is-gods-nam ... or-jehovah

Later copiest didn't use the J, the J was invented in the 1600s. It was I in the 1611 KJ and Y way before that. Same deal with S's and F's. Ever been Bleffed?

My only point here is that Jehovah is most definitely not God's name. As Jesus is not christ's. It may be what we call them, but it is not their names and to suggest so is dishonest theocratically and historically.