When did belief in a Trinity begin and why?

[polonius]

[steveb1]

[Replying to post 1 by polonius.advice]

My "take" on it is:

1 Some early Jewish Christians viewed Jesus not as God, but still as "divine"

2 Because he was adopted by God as Son at his baptism

3 Because this was reaffirmed via his resurrection/ascension

4 Because Jesus was, or embodied, a preexistent heavenly figure variously thought of as the celestial Son of Man, Logos-Word, Adam Kadmon, the Great Angel, etc. Which makes Jesus a "second Power in heaven" - at God's side, but not "God" himself. Binitarianism.

5 The Gentile Church did not know how to authentically handle the original Jewish Jesus-sect binitarianism, and turned the Jewish Son of God/Son of Man into the Romanized "God the Son" and second Trinitarian "Person". The preexistent, sacred, heavenly "divine Assistant" became God - ontological God, "of the same substance with the Father".

Simplistic explanation, but that's how I currently view the birth of Trinitarian christology.

[bjs]

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 3 by bjs]

If the book of Acts is correct then the disciples preached that Jesus is God by or soon after the first Pentecost after Jesus’ resurrection.

That is news to me.

Please present your evidence from Acts.

[steveb1]

[Replying to post 4 by Checkpoint]

Yeah - the Acts never calls Jesus "God" and never directs prayers to Jesus as to God. The martyr Stephen, did say he saw the heavenly Jesus and asked Jesus to receive his spirit. But that's not a prayer to God - it's a prayer to God's risen, exalted Messianic agent who is now operating from heaven.

[bjs]

[brianbbs67]

Polycarp and Iraneous were not trinitarians. That didn't exist.

They were very Orthodox in carring on Isrealite beliefs in Christs name.

My favorite quote from Iraneous, was to the Pope., " While Polycarp was very orthodox in his beliefs, he was very leinent in non theological matters, such as which date to celebrate easter."

You have Augustine in your by line. My favorite from him was, " Make me chased Lord, but not just yet."

My favorite by Polcarp is, "3:2(letter to the Philippians) For neither am I , nor is any other like unto me, able to follow the wisdom of the blessed and glorious Paul, who when he came among you taught face to face....."


You are fooling yourself to believe a trinity doctrine existed before Nicea. There are 3. Father, son of Man, and Holy Ghost. They appear to be quite different characters by the bible accounts. And by the Son of man.

[bjs]

[Checkpoint]

[bjs]

You are fooling yourself to believe a trinity doctrine existed before Nicea. There are 3. Father, son of Man, and Holy Ghost. They appear to be quite different characters by the bible accounts. And by the Son of man.

We have direct talk about the trinity from Tertullian (155 – 240 AD).

In Adversus Praxean he wrote, “We define that there are two, the Father and the Son, and three with the Holy Spirit, and this number is made by the pattern of salvation . . . [which] brings about unity in trinity, interrelating the three, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are three, not in dignity, but in degree, not in substance but in form, not in power but in kind. They are of one substance and power, because there is one God from whom these degrees, forms and kinds devolve in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit."

Almost a century before Nicea we see explicit statements about the trinity. Tertullian didn't just use Trinitarian formulas like Irenaeus did. He actually said that God is a trinity and described the God who is one in substance but three in form. Does this at least convince you that the doctrine of the trinity existed long before Nicea?