This thread is a follow-on to a previous post, but one which clearly should be treated as a separate subject.
The traditional Jewish Shema taught “Hear of Israel. The Lord is One.� And this belief was held by the early Christian-Jews (in a sect called “The Way�) which remained united with conventual Judaism.
About 85 AD, the Christians began to assert that their Messiah was divine himself. This was the parting of the ways with Judaism. The Christians wre labeled as “minim� (or apostates) and a condemnation included in the 18 Benedictions a prayer said daily by the Jews.Christians, of course, were banned from Jewish synagogues.
What the Christians developed is the belief that there were really two persons in the Messiah, or Binitarianism. Claims of a third person were added later.
“Binitarianism is the belief that the one true God exists as two Persons (the Father and the Son). Binitarianism is distinguished from Trinitarianism (God exists as three Persons) and Unitarianism (God exists as only one Person). It is also distinguished from bitheism (the belief in two gods). Binitarianism has never been a popular view of God and is held by a small number of groups today.�
When did belief in a Trinity begin and why?
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Re: When did belief in a Trinity begin and why?
Post #2[Replying to post 1 by polonius.advice]
My "take" on it is:
1 Some early Jewish Christians viewed Jesus not as God, but still as "divine"
2 Because he was adopted by God as Son at his baptism
3 Because this was reaffirmed via his resurrection/ascension
4 Because Jesus was, or embodied, a preexistent heavenly figure variously thought of as the celestial Son of Man, Logos-Word, Adam Kadmon, the Great Angel, etc. Which makes Jesus a "second Power in heaven" - at God's side, but not "God" himself. Binitarianism.
5 The Gentile Church did not know how to authentically handle the original Jewish Jesus-sect binitarianism, and turned the Jewish Son of God/Son of Man into the Romanized "God the Son" and second Trinitarian "Person". The preexistent, sacred, heavenly "divine Assistant" became God - ontological God, "of the same substance with the Father".
Simplistic explanation, but that's how I currently view the birth of Trinitarian christology.
My "take" on it is:
1 Some early Jewish Christians viewed Jesus not as God, but still as "divine"
2 Because he was adopted by God as Son at his baptism
3 Because this was reaffirmed via his resurrection/ascension
4 Because Jesus was, or embodied, a preexistent heavenly figure variously thought of as the celestial Son of Man, Logos-Word, Adam Kadmon, the Great Angel, etc. Which makes Jesus a "second Power in heaven" - at God's side, but not "God" himself. Binitarianism.
5 The Gentile Church did not know how to authentically handle the original Jewish Jesus-sect binitarianism, and turned the Jewish Son of God/Son of Man into the Romanized "God the Son" and second Trinitarian "Person". The preexistent, sacred, heavenly "divine Assistant" became God - ontological God, "of the same substance with the Father".
Simplistic explanation, but that's how I currently view the birth of Trinitarian christology.
Post #3
The language of Trinity developed over time, but the concept seems to have existed very early.
If the book of Acts is correct then the disciples preached that Jesus is God by or soon after the first Pentecost after Jesus’ resurrection. The parting from the orthodox Judaism seems to have come not long after that. By the time we get to the events of Acts chapter 7 (36 AD) the break was becoming visible and many Christians were forced out of Jerusalem. By the early 50 AD’s Paul’s letters started treating the divinity of Christ as an established doctrine that his readers were familiar with.
Binitarianism was never a strong belief within Christianity. It was mentioned on rare occasions, but does not appear to ever have been a common belief. Instead, the overwhelming majority of early Christians accepted the trinity from the first century on (though again the modern language wasn’t used).
Polycarp (70-155 AD), Justin Martyr (100-165? AD) and Ignatius of Antioch (36-107 AD) all wrote in Trinitarian terms.
For instance, in his Epistle to the Ephesians Ignatius wrote, “In Christ Jesus our Lord, by whom and with whom be glory and power to the Father with the Holy Spirit forever…. We have also as a Physician the Lord our God Jesus the Christ the only-begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin.�
In Ignatius’ words we see a clear Trinitarian formula and an explicit statement that Jesus the Christ is “our God.�
If the book of Acts is correct then the disciples preached that Jesus is God by or soon after the first Pentecost after Jesus’ resurrection. The parting from the orthodox Judaism seems to have come not long after that. By the time we get to the events of Acts chapter 7 (36 AD) the break was becoming visible and many Christians were forced out of Jerusalem. By the early 50 AD’s Paul’s letters started treating the divinity of Christ as an established doctrine that his readers were familiar with.
Binitarianism was never a strong belief within Christianity. It was mentioned on rare occasions, but does not appear to ever have been a common belief. Instead, the overwhelming majority of early Christians accepted the trinity from the first century on (though again the modern language wasn’t used).
Polycarp (70-155 AD), Justin Martyr (100-165? AD) and Ignatius of Antioch (36-107 AD) all wrote in Trinitarian terms.
For instance, in his Epistle to the Ephesians Ignatius wrote, “In Christ Jesus our Lord, by whom and with whom be glory and power to the Father with the Holy Spirit forever…. We have also as a Physician the Lord our God Jesus the Christ the only-begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin.�
In Ignatius’ words we see a clear Trinitarian formula and an explicit statement that Jesus the Christ is “our God.�
Understand that you might believe. Believe that you might understand. –Augustine of Hippo
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Checkpoint
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Post #4
[Replying to post 3 by bjs]
Please present your evidence from Acts.
That is news to me.If the book of Acts is correct then the disciples preached that Jesus is God by or soon after the first Pentecost after Jesus’ resurrection.
Please present your evidence from Acts.
Post #5
[Replying to post 4 by Checkpoint]
Yeah - the Acts never calls Jesus "God" and never directs prayers to Jesus as to God. The martyr Stephen, did say he saw the heavenly Jesus and asked Jesus to receive his spirit. But that's not a prayer to God - it's a prayer to God's risen, exalted Messianic agent who is now operating from heaven.
Yeah - the Acts never calls Jesus "God" and never directs prayers to Jesus as to God. The martyr Stephen, did say he saw the heavenly Jesus and asked Jesus to receive his spirit. But that's not a prayer to God - it's a prayer to God's risen, exalted Messianic agent who is now operating from heaven.
Post #6
[Replying to Checkpoint]
[Replying to post 5 by steveb1]
In Acts 2:39, during Pentecost, Peter spoke of the promise “for all whom the Lord our God will call.� Earlier in that same speech Peter directly state that Jesus is “Lord and Christ� (Acts 2:36). Then Peter said that the Lord is our God.
Peter returned to the same theme in Acts 3:15 and called Jesus the “author of life.�
Honestly, I’m not going to bother debating these. A natural reading of the passages makes it clear that Peter was claiming that Jesus is Divine. If someone is committed to the doctrine that Jesus is not divine then nothing will convince them.
For this thread I am satisfied in saying that the doctrines of the trinity and the divinity of Christ were established in the first century, while the full development and language for these doctrines would be worked out over the next few centuries.
[Replying to post 5 by steveb1]
In Acts 2:39, during Pentecost, Peter spoke of the promise “for all whom the Lord our God will call.� Earlier in that same speech Peter directly state that Jesus is “Lord and Christ� (Acts 2:36). Then Peter said that the Lord is our God.
Peter returned to the same theme in Acts 3:15 and called Jesus the “author of life.�
Honestly, I’m not going to bother debating these. A natural reading of the passages makes it clear that Peter was claiming that Jesus is Divine. If someone is committed to the doctrine that Jesus is not divine then nothing will convince them.
For this thread I am satisfied in saying that the doctrines of the trinity and the divinity of Christ were established in the first century, while the full development and language for these doctrines would be worked out over the next few centuries.
Understand that you might believe. Believe that you might understand. –Augustine of Hippo
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brianbbs67
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Post #7
Polycarp and Iraneous were not trinitarians. That didn't exist.
They were very Orthodox in carring on Isrealite beliefs in Christs name.
My favorite quote from Iraneous, was to the Pope., " While Polycarp was very orthodox in his beliefs, he was very leinent in non theological matters, such as which date to celebrate easter."
You have Augustine in your by line. My favorite from him was, " Make me chased Lord, but not just yet."
My favorite by Polcarp is, "3:2(letter to the Philippians) For neither am I , nor is any other like unto me, able to follow the wisdom of the blessed and glorious Paul, who when he came among you taught face to face....."
You are fooling yourself to believe a trinity doctrine existed before Nicea. There are 3. Father, son of Man, and Holy Ghost. They appear to be quite different characters by the bible accounts. And by the Son of man.
They were very Orthodox in carring on Isrealite beliefs in Christs name.
My favorite quote from Iraneous, was to the Pope., " While Polycarp was very orthodox in his beliefs, he was very leinent in non theological matters, such as which date to celebrate easter."
You have Augustine in your by line. My favorite from him was, " Make me chased Lord, but not just yet."
My favorite by Polcarp is, "3:2(letter to the Philippians) For neither am I , nor is any other like unto me, able to follow the wisdom of the blessed and glorious Paul, who when he came among you taught face to face....."
You are fooling yourself to believe a trinity doctrine existed before Nicea. There are 3. Father, son of Man, and Holy Ghost. They appear to be quite different characters by the bible accounts. And by the Son of man.
Post #8
[Replying to brianbbs67]
In Against Heresies Irenaeus wrote that we have faith in “one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit.�
So Irenaeus wrote described a faith that is in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The langue of the trinity didn’t exist yet, but that is a pretty clear Trinitarian statement.
In Against Heresies Irenaeus wrote that we have faith in “one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit.�
So Irenaeus wrote described a faith that is in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The langue of the trinity didn’t exist yet, but that is a pretty clear Trinitarian statement.
Understand that you might believe. Believe that you might understand. –Augustine of Hippo
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Checkpoint
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Post #9
[Replying to post 6 by bjs]
That does not mean what you seem to think it does.Peter returned to the same theme in Acts 3:15 and called Jesus the “author of life.'
From HELPS Word-studies
747 arxēgós(from 746 /arxḗ, "the first" and 71 /ág�, "to lead") – properly, the first in a long procession; a file-leader who pioneers the way for many others to follow.
747 (arxēgós) does not strictly mean "author," but rather "a person who is originator or founder of a movement and continues as the leader – i.e. 'pioneer leader, founding leader' " (L & N, 1, 36.6).
Post #10
We have direct talk about the trinity from Tertullian (155 – 240 AD).brianbbs67 wrote: You are fooling yourself to believe a trinity doctrine existed before Nicea. There are 3. Father, son of Man, and Holy Ghost. They appear to be quite different characters by the bible accounts. And by the Son of man.
In Adversus Praxean he wrote, “We define that there are two, the Father and the Son, and three with the Holy Spirit, and this number is made by the pattern of salvation . . . [which] brings about unity in trinity, interrelating the three, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are three, not in dignity, but in degree, not in substance but in form, not in power but in kind. They are of one substance and power, because there is one God from whom these degrees, forms and kinds devolve in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit."
Almost a century before Nicea we see explicit statements about the trinity. Tertullian didn't just use Trinitarian formulas like Irenaeus did. He actually said that God is a trinity and described the God who is one in substance but three in form. Does this at least convince you that the doctrine of the trinity existed long before Nicea?
Understand that you might believe. Believe that you might understand. –Augustine of Hippo
